Temujin's first born

[apollo1989vieten]

I am sure that everyone on the forum knows the dispute over whether Jochi, Temujin's recognized first born son, was actually his son. In game, an event can pop up that disputes the heritage of your first born if playing as Temujin. But the game treats it as an adultery happening and not a special case. Should a special exception to this take place because the the kid would have been the product of the "r" word and not adultery? I think that really you shouldn't get mad and arrest your wife, because the opening event makes it clear that this might be the case.

 

[The Shacks]

Eeh, in context, is/was it r**** by their customs? Bridal theft was pretty common still I think? And usually the person on Temujins end would have normally seen his wife as tainted/spoiled/to be cast aside, not re-embraced. Unless im missing something about Mongol/steppe culture at the time that makes it different. Historically powerful men dident tend to be kind and understanding of their wive's trauma and plight in these scenarios.

My issue with this event is more that most the time Jochi ends up being a girl which renders the whole situation moot and as far as i can tell no further event crops up regardless? Same with Jamucha, if you offer him blood friendship nothing happens. Apparently he can offer it to you in an event but i've not seen it in a trio of early-game Temujin playthroughs. And theres nothing scripted to railroad or even nudge you into the historic showdown with Jamucha. ( I do like that Suebedi is hanging around as a kid and seems scripted to always be goated though ).

 

[apollo1989vieten]

Eeh, in context, is/was it r**** by their customs? Bridal theft was pretty common still I think? And usually the person on Temujins end would have normally seen his wife as tainted/spoiled/to be cast aside, not re-embraced. Unless im missing something about Mongol/steppe culture at the time that makes it different. Historically powerful men dident tend to be kind and understanding of their wive's trauma and plight in these scenarios.

My issue with this event is more that most the time Jochi ends up being a girl which renders the whole situation moot and as far as i can tell no further event crops up regardless? Same with Jamucha, if you offer him blood friendship nothing happens. Apparently he can offer it to you in an event but i've not seen it in a trio of early-game Temujin playthroughs. And theres nothing scripted to railroad or even nudge you into the historic showdown with Jamucha. ( I do like that Suebedi is hanging around as a kid and seems scripted to always be goated though ).

I am not sure if it was by Mongol customs, but by Western customs, I think it would be considered. And Temujin never casted his wife away despite the whisperings about Jochi's heritage.

Sometimes, Jamucha does eventually betray you, though not all the time. It seems to normally happen if he demands freedom for his people. Maybe if he eventually becomes unlanded after a migration, the path to betrayal stops. The event in which he betrays you reminds me of "The Plagues" from the Prince of Egypt.

 

[The Shacks]

I am not sure if it was by Mongol customs, but by Western customs, I think it would be considered. And Temujin never casted his wife away despite the whisperings about Jochi's heritage.

Sometimes, Jamucha does eventually betray you, though not all the time. It seems to normally happen if he demands freedom for his people. Maybe if he eventually becomes unlanded after a migration, the path to betrayal stops. The event in which he betrays you reminds me of "The Plagues" from the Prince of Egypt.

Temujin was a much wiser and kinder man than his peers, or atleast more forgiving of sociatal norms I guess. Loved and treasured his wife and gave all the bois loot. Good chap, if you ignore the terror campaigns hahaha. In that context, I would be curious to observe whether the AI regularly imprisons her, because that WOUlD be out of character. But for the player, giving you the option to do the 'expected' thing rather than the Chingis thing seems fair.

I did not realise anything actually can happen to make him betray you. I will have to run a few more games. Do you know if anything else happens? The characters to choose from in the start date and the way they set certain things up feels like there is some possibilty of something happening with the Naimans or other local rulers in reference to Temujin. But again, maybe the chances are really low. I suppose Pdox only ever did near 100% railroading once, with Charlmagne start in Ck2

 

[CrazyRat]

I did not realise anything actually can happen to make him betray you. I will have to run a few more games. Do you know if anything else happens? The characters to choose from in the start date and the way they set certain things up feels like there is some possibilty of something happening with the Naimans or other local rulers in reference to Temujin. But again, maybe the chances are really low. I suppose Pdox only ever did near 100% railroading once, with Charlmagne start in Ck2

While railroading is not that fun, Temujin scenario could do much better job of explaining what is going on in these event chains. I got the Mongol Empire by event just once, and for the life of me I cannot even say what exactly I need to do to in order to get it once again. (Unless I’ll just look it up in code.)

 

[The Shacks]

While railroading is not that fun, Temujin scenario could do much better job of explaining what is going on in these event chains. I got the Mongol Empire by event just once, and for the life of me I cannot even say what exactly I need to do to in order to get it once again. (Unless I’ll just look it up in code.)

Just to be clear is this an actual event or just the generic 'Game Awards you Conqueror' cos it keeps trying to do that to me and I have to say no because it feels game breaking as the player and lets you bypass all the nomad mechanics. But an event chain doing it sounds fun. Hrhm.... Yeah it needs more railroading.

 

[CrazyRat]

I mean, the event that gives you that. I probably shouldn’t have used ‘event chain’ for his unique content, but anyway I mean any sort of guidance (“to trigger your unique content Dominate your kingdom”, “you may be elected Greatest of Khans if all Mongol Rulers are your tributaries”, etc.; but of course hidden in narrative) that would tell you what you are supposed to do if you want to enjoy the story content to the fullest.

 

[apollo1989vieten]

Temujin was a much wiser and kinder man than his peers, or atleast more forgiving of sociatal norms I guess. Loved and treasured his wife and gave all the bois loot. Good chap, if you ignore the terror campaigns hahaha. In that context, I would be curious to observe whether the AI regularly imprisons her, because that WOUlD be out of character. But for the player, giving you the option to do the 'expected' thing rather than the Chingis thing seems fair.

I did not realise anything actually can happen to make him betray you. I will have to run a few more games. Do you know if anything else happens? The characters to choose from in the start date and the way they set certain things up feels like there is some possibilty of something happening with the Naimans or other local rulers in reference to Temujin. But again, maybe the chances are really low. I suppose Pdox only ever did near 100% railroading once, with Charlmagne start in Ck2

After him demanding freedom, he will show up and announce his opposition to you. But that and the conqueror event that I think requires blessing of the blue sky to kick off are the only other event directly related to Temujin.

Having the "r" done to you in ancient societies can be really damaging. In the Bible, Levi and Simeon massacre an entire town because the son of the ruler "r" their sister and had the nerve to ask for her in marriage after that. After David's eldest son "r" her, Tamar considered it less dishonorable to be an incest marriage than defiled forever. Her full brother Absalom, taking note that David was not punishing his elder half brother, decided to commit fratricide to avenge his full sister's disgrace. I don't imagine that Mongol society would have been any less forgiving than those examples.

Edit.

I am just going to repeat what Google Ai said. The treatment of rescued wives depended on the status of the wife (how high in the nobility is she? Is she a primary or secondary wife?), whether any kids were born in captivity, and the whims of the husband. It was no means a set in stone norm for what happens after rescue.