Is genetic ascension weaker now than previously?

[queenbee2u7]

I feel like genetic ascension didn't actually get much in the way of power. All of its previous benefits have been split between 3 paths whose core cannot be mixed. Advanced traits and leviathan traits + phenotype restriction removals are now completely separate, but neither have been buffed. Nothing biomorphosis has approaches the level of dark matter engines, virtual, or vocational genomnics + universal augmentations. Not only that but cybers get leviathan traits, and have more leviathan traits to chose from. All of which are better than the organic leviathan traits.

Now, all of the new stuff is definitely very interesting and some extremely good ideas, I especially love mutation, but what I mean is that this ascension path to me feels more restrictive and less practical than it did before. It's entirely possible I'm also missing the point or not looking at the numbers right and thus making the wrong assumption, hence why I'm very interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this. Does genetic ascension feel stronger, weaker, or the same to you? And do you think it should change?

 

[Forblaze]

I don't really know what virtual is like in the current patch, but dark matter engines doesn't seem like that big of a deal. You get +25% efficiency for every planet for having a gene clinic and genomic research facility built. Some of the governments are pretty significant as well. In my current game, Eugenic Hierarchy is giving another 42.5% job efficiency before any of their actual traits get applied.

 

[Revengeance_oov]

I feel like genetic ascension didn't actually get much in the way of power. All of its previous benefits have been split between 3 paths whose core cannot be mixed. Advanced traits and leviathan traits + phenotype restriction removals are now completely separate, but neither have been buffed. Nothing biomorphosis has approaches the level of dark matter engines, virtual, or vocational genomnics + universal augmentations. Not only that but cybers get leviathan traits, and have more leviathan traits to chose from. All of which are better than the organic leviathan traits.

Now, all of the new stuff is definitely very interesting and some extremely good ideas, I especially love mutation, but what I mean is that this ascension path to me feels more restrictive and less practical than it did before. It's entirely possible I'm also missing the point or not looking at the numbers right and thus making the wrong assumption, hence why I'm very interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this. Does genetic ascension feel stronger, weaker, or the same to you? And do you think it should change?

Well, cloning gets -25% Empire Size from Pops, which lets you get -95% without running Fanatic Pacifist or Sovereign Guardianship...on top of -75% size for colonies and systems.

Purity gets absurd Advanced Authorities with huge stacking bonuses like +70% or more leader XP gain, +25% global job efficiency and council speed. Mutation gets to mix a ton of great phenotype traits. EvoPred gets...every organic trait in the game, alongside -30% or more empire size from Pops, plus your choice of Hive Worlds, Apex Predator leader trait, or even just Beacon of Liberty.

Bio is great now.

 

[RoverStorm]

Clone Army origin can now, via cloning tree, sustain loads of clone ascendant pops across every colony, rather than just a handful from the 5 ancient cloning vats.

If you mean vanilla bioascension without the DLC, maybe technically a little weaker since in 3.14 I think they could combine different phenotype traits, specifically lithoid and plantoid, but now its tied to mutation. IIRC. Could be wrong.

 

[Stephono97]

I will say I was surprised by how they implemented the ascension path. I don't think any of them are weak, but they don't stand out to me in the way the transformative options like nanites or virtuality did. Instead all of that seems to have been put into the origins. I don't know how I feel about it, though it is interesting that each of the ascensions has a variant unique to an origin.

 

[Guthuk Gaming]

If you're going to compare everything new to virtual you're going to be freshly disappointed every expansion

 

[LeoBack]

Playing as lithoid overturened genetic ascension is very strong
You get 25% job efficiency from buildings.
You get 25% job efficiency from Environmental Integration (easy to get now that lithoid can take robust).
You get 25% job efficiency from Eugenic Hierarchy.
So 75%+ job efficiency bonus before you apply any trait bonuses

 

[hart30]

From going full clone path (no clone army) alone, i believe u can get as much pop assembly as for any non virtual machine ascension path.

Its just so that bio has trouble looking as fancy as the machine paths. Probably because all the fancy stuff has been turned into origins.

 

[Nakkivene]

It's hard to compare numbers since they're spread all over the place. +5% efficiency per medical building tier, +15% from genomic research center, perhaps you get perfect stability so + something from that or you get +something from another authority... Growth numbers I wouldn't even go into since it's so new the way it works, but it doesn't seem to be an issue to fill up your worlds.

 

[stilgarpl]

I asked the same question in https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ension-whats-different-in-biogenesis.1743500/ thread. The answer: the most of the power is in the advanced authorities they get.
If you want most raw power and comparable features to old genetics, you should go mutation, purity, mutation and then choose purity tree. This way you'll get mutagenic hability (200% hability is not that hard to achieve) and advanced traits (RGB box + leviathans). Previously you were only able to get one RGB trait from Speed Demon anomaly, now you can just select it (although speed demon trait is still better because it's free).

 

[PeterHacke]

The tradition tree itself does feel weaker, however there is quite a bit of power in the new ascended government types. If you add those, i'm pretty confident that the new bio ascensions are stronger. However it still feels a little lackluster compared to the synth ascension rework we had before.

 

[queenbee2u7]

If you're going to compare everything new to virtual you're going to be freshly disappointed every expansion

Ironically, I think virtual is the most "matched" thing in this expansion, given that wilderness is effectively virtual without some of its insane production bonuses but with the ability to expand much more freely. And to be clear, I'm also not disappointed in the new content in the slightest, I was just inquiring as to what people thought about its "power level" since it sort of felt weak to me.

Looking at the replies, the fact that most of the bonuses are in a bunch of different places instead of one big buff are probably what made me misunderstand how much it was doing. The only thing I'm feeling disappointed in is the voidling trait, which is very much not at all useful for the path it is in.

 

[DevWolf]

My biggest disappointment was not getting a bio-immortality trait.

But many of the changes push the three paths to their logical extremes. Being able to mix and match the best tradition perks can lead to some very powerful results.

Purity is very similar to old genetic ascension, but it makes advanced traits cheaper, so you can get more. It also has powerful advanced authorities that the others can't match. I hope they add to the other advanced authorities rather than nerfing purity governments. The other two imperial governments are pretty bad and need something extra.

Cloning is all about pop growth and can get you some pretty high numbers, you can grow your empire very quickly. You also get to keep your leaders through cloning giving them a sort of immortality. You're trading pop modification pops to get lots of growth. Plus it makes the vat grown trait free.

Mutation is all about auto-modding and letting you mix and match different phenotype traits. You can play overtuned and take mutation and get all three genetic job auto-modding traits to get a lot of job efficiency.

All three paths get bonuses from medical and genomic research buildings and workers. Such as 30% job efficiency for having a tier 3 medical building and a genomic research facility. This job efficiency bonus from medical buildings also applies to the uncapped fallen empire buildings, giving you 20% per fully upgraded FE medical building. The growth and assembly bonuses to medical workers/genomic researchers can get insane when you stack them up with FE medical buildings.

Genetic is the strongest it has ever been.

 

[stilgarpl]

My biggest disappointment was not getting a bio-immortality trait.

Cloning path has bio-immortality. If you pick cloning as third option, choose cloning tree and get their advanced authority, every leader will get "Backup clone" trait.

 

[DevWolf]

Cloning path has bio-immortality. If you pick cloning as third option, choose cloning tree and get their advanced authority, every leader will get "Backup clone" trait.

I mentioned that in my little part about cloning. I said "you get to keep your leaders through cloning giving them a sort of immortality." My wish was to get a advanced bio-trait to just make them immortal. With Cloning you get a penalty on your leaders when their clone replaces them. Some of the advanced authorities reduce that penalty. The fact that cloning democracy reduces the penalty by 50% for all clone leaders and reduces their upkeep makes it more powerful that the other cloning authorities. Which only give a reduction for specific cases, oligarchic only gives it to councilors, imperial only gives it to the ruler. That's why I think they need something extra adding to them. Especially advanced imperial governments.

 

[Forblaze]

My biggest disappointment was not getting a bio-immortality trait.

The Imperial Purity government gives functional immortality. I was able to get 400+ year long lifespans without venerable or repeatables.

I would like a proper immortality trait though.

 

[DevWolf]

The Imperial Purity government gives functional immortality. I was able to get 400+ year long lifespans without venerable or repeatables.

I would like a proper immortality trait though.

I also tried that and got a massive life span from it. Which is why it's so good, probably the best advanced authority in biogenesis. I was able to get an 85% bonus to life span and exp gain.

I still want a proper immortality trait. XD

Also when I think about it I was hoping for more advanced traits as well. we could of gotten things that use rare resources like the robots have. Speaking of which they haven't fixed the tool tip for exotic metabolism. For ages it says it only gives +50 years life span. When it also gives habitability and pop growth. Also the genetic memory trait tool tips seems to be wrong. It says its habitability bonus caps at 50% but it currently caps at 25%.

 

[KriegFaust39]

If you want a truly unique experience, try overturned with that one purity government that gives council agenda speed. Pair this with state craft. In less than a hundred years you'll have maxed out council with all their destiny traits.

 

[WJJellO]

Democratic clone authority has to be one of the most ridiculous wide strategies I think I have ever seen. Insane pop growth from cloning vats, -10% empire size from pops (you can make this -20% with the Purity Flexible Tradition II) which can be combined with Beacon of Liberty for -35%, an agenda that increases pop growth from cloning vats by 100%, leaders that gain traits instead of dying, and you can still access advanced genetic traits (Vat Grown is now a 0-cost trait).

It's the first time I have ever played a game where my limiting factor in the mid game was how quickly I could construct buildings and new colonies.

 

[aadf97799c]

-1 trait point for advance trait

reuse 3 color trait from anomaly

5 clone vat per planet

200 habitability bonus

bio are certainly stronger than before

still weaker than machine but play with more toy