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Tinto Flavour #16 - 9th of May 2025 - Brandenburg & Prussia

Hello and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Fridays in which we take a look at the content of the super secret Project Caesar Europa Universalis V!

Today we will be talking about Brandenburg, and the main tag that it can form, Prussia. Therefore, today is even more special for two reasons. The first is that this is the first country that we talk about in which the content for the base country and the formable is aligned, as it was the historical result; in this category we have a few more important countries, such as England/Great Britain or Castile/Spain, of which we’ll talk more about in future TFs. The second is because we considered Brandenburg/Prussia one of the relevant tags in the period, and thus, it has more baseline content than the previous one; so far, we’ve only taken a look previously to one tag of that category, the Timurids (and you may have noticed that it was a long and meaty TF).

Let’s start now taking a look at the content, then:

The Electorate of Brandenburg was established as the Northern March in the Slavic Wends' territory. The region features loamy uplands and depressions with rivers and lakes, pine trees and heat, and a soil which is predominantly dry and sandy, but suitable for agriculture, making it to be called 'the sandbox of the Holy Roman Empire'.\n\nIn 1157, after claiming these lands from Jaxa of Köpenick, Elector Albrecht ‘the Bear’ Askanier officially became [GetCountry('BRA').GetGovernment.GetRulerTitle]. Initially limited to Havelland and Zauche, he encouraged the #italic Ostsiedlung#!'s process towards the Neumark east of the Oder, gradually incorporating it into his possessions, and colonists coming from Flanders and the Rhineland were invited to settle, fortifying their towns in the process. After his death in 1170, the Askanier dynasty continued this expansion for over 150 years, acquiring neighboring regions like the Oder Lagoon and the Uckermark, which expanded their influence to the Baltic Sea, but also led to conflicts with Denmark. However, the last Askanier, Elector Heinrich II., died without a direct heir in 1320.

Now, the von Wittelsbach dynasty has arrived, but the lack of interest in ruling over these lands casts a shadow over the future of the Electorate of Brandenburg.

Country Selection.png

As usual, consider all UI, 2D and 3D art WIP.

The starting situation of Brandenburg:
Brandenburg2.png

Brandenburg1.png

Brandenburg3.png

We are not attached to just showing the flatmap mode anymore! Yay!

It starts with a similar content setup to that of Saxony, which we showed some weeks ago:
Margraviate.jpg

Right to Inherit.jpg

Magdeburg Rights.jpg

Bergordnung.jpg

Here are some of the unique advances of both Brandenburg and Prussia:
Expansive Policies.png

Soldiers of Fortune.png

Found the Kammergericht.png

Geheimer Rat.png

Army Professionalism.png

The Goose Step.png

Brandenburg & Prussia might have some military-related advances, yeah… But take into account that this approx. half of the amount available, so there are non-military-related ones.

Let’s now take a look at the narrative content, which is quite meaty. This is one of the first starting events for Brandenburg:
Succession Issues1.png

Succession Issues2.png

Succession Issues3.png

Slightly painful…

As you see, there are around 30 events that may be triggered after this, of varied topics, that impact the governance of Brandenburg in the first decades of the game. One of the most interesting ones are those related to the ‘False Waldemar’ event chain:
False Waldemar.png

I don’t think you should trust a guy that looks that way…

After the year 1500, if certain triggers are met, you might receive an event regarding this Teutonic Order, which may lead to the formation of Prussia:
Teutonic Order.png

Although you can also form it organically, by expanding into the area (although the Emperor may have a say in this, as historically happened):
Form Prussia.png

A Prussian Crown.png

Compromise.png

Electorate of Prussia.png

Preussen Blau.png

This is a lovely color, isn’t it?

You may now figure that Prussia is a country with much more content in the late game, so I’m just going to show you some of it; but take into consideration that of the following events, the first one can trigger after 1530, the second after 1637, and the others in different dates after 1700:
Kreditwerk.png

Kreditwerk2.png


Pietism.png

Pietism2.png


Canton System.png

Canton System2.png


Kant.png


Clausewitz.png

Clausewitz2.png

Did you know that the Engine we use is named after him?

And some other content that you might get in the last two ages, as well:
Soldier King of Prussia1.png

Prussian Monarchy.png


Sanssouci.png

And that’s all for today! It was an intense week! And the next one, even more, since we will start publishing a second Tinto Flavour on Tuesdays! Therefore, the schedule will be the following:
  • Monday -> Tinto Maps Feedback for Great Britain & Ireland
  • Tuesday -> Tinto Flavour about Vijayanagar and other ‘minor’ Indian countries
  • Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about Hinduism, Jainism and Sikhism
  • Friday -> Tinto Flavour about Delhi
Cheers!
 
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1. Yes, through the event that I've shown.
2. The Hohenzollern start in Hohenzollern, a Unique Location Minor that owns Balingen, so they can end up ruling organically. But some events may lead to them to end up as rulers of Brandenburg, too.

At the risk of being the "actually" guy, the Brandenburg line of Hohenzollerns are a branch of the Franconian line (Hohenzollern-Nurnburg), not the Swabian line in Balingen. Just pointing this out to prevent an oversight in the event flavor.
 

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En primer lugar, felicitaciones al equipo: ¡según las imágenes del juego, el juego luce absolutamente fantástico!

Mi pregunta es: ¿es posible formar orgánicamente Prusia con las fronteras que se muestran en la imagen cargada, sin anexar directamente la Orden Teutónica?

Estoy pensando en una ruta histórica en la que juegas como Brandeburgo, Polonia anexa la Orden Teutónica, adquieres Pomerania Oriental y, finalmente, logras una unión personal sobre la Prusia Ducal mientras todavía es vasalla de Polonia.

View attachment 1294105

Además... ¿Puedes jugar como los Hohenzollern en cualquier país del Sacro Imperio Romano Germánico en el que se encuentren al comienzo del juego y adquirir Brandeburgo a través de eventos?
Yo también quiero jugar así: Empezar en 1337 como un conde Hohenzollern en Anbasch/Nuremberg, ahorrar dinero, manpower y hacer todo lo posible por conseguir Brandeburgo mediante PU o eventos y formar Prussia, derrotar a todos mis vecinos y al final terminar formando Alemania...
 
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I know that you are still reviewing the pops, but I hope Brandenburg's population gets radically reduced to 200k; it didn't reach 1 million until some point in the 18th century. It had around 400k at some point in the mid-16th century. For simulating population growth, there could be specific mechanics for migration attraction, especially to attract religious minorities. In the 17th and 18th century, there could be Peuplierung (difficult to translate) which encompasses a very broad range of activities to populate areas, especially those which were previously claimed by wetlands (along the Oder and other marshland areas). Peuplierung includes:
  • Inviting immigrants (e.g., Huguenots, Salzburg Protestants, and settlers from elsewhere in Europe),
  • Founding new villages and settling unpopulated areas, often through land reclamation
  • Offering tax breaks, land, and initial support to attract settlers.
Everyone who commented that forming Prussia is way too easy, try again with just 1/5 of the pops. This is why the rise of Brandenburg is so interesting, because in a lot of ways, it was not a very remarkable territory (Streusandbüchse des HRR).

*edit* I put the research on the population data somewhere in the Germany thread, long time ago.
 
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I know that you are still reviewing the pops, but I hope Brandenburg's population gets radically reduced to 200k; it didn't reach 1 million until some point in the 18th century.
I agree with this, even just checking (German) Wikipedia reveals that number.
I know its not the best source but its far off the million depicted in the screenshot
 
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Everyone who commented that forming Prussia is way too easy, try again with just 1/5 of the pops. This is why the rise of Brandenburg is so interesting, because in a lot of ways, it was not a very remarkable territory (Streusandbüchse des HRR).
I agree with the feedback on population (and looking at these numbers I need to re-do my population suggestion in the Germany thread), but I do want to mention that most of the land surrounding Brandenburg also wasn't densely populated at the time, especially areas that they would naturally expand into if trying to form Prussia, so it's not like they're a massive underdog.
 
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I agree with this, even just checking (German) Wikipedia reveals that number.
I know its not the best source but its far off the million depicted in the screenshot
Yeah I also checked the German Wikipedia, plus I did a lot of research on population last year and summarized my findings on Brandenburg here.
  • 1300: 200,000 (BLPB, 2022; Wikipedia, 2024b)
  • 1486: 308,750; 1564: 381,000; 1617: 418,666; 1634: 300,000; 1690: 413,516; 1750: 767,354; 1800: 1,124,806 (all figures only Mark Brandenburg) (Wikipedia, 2024b)
  • 1650: 1,65M. (Brandenburg-Prussia) (Whaley, 2012, p. 188)
  • 1700: 500,000; 1740: 731,000 (only Mark Brandenburg) (Holmsten, 1991, p. 79)
With all cross references, you can already see that 1 million is way too high for 1337.
 
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Since we don't use the system 'Admin Tech = 10/20/etc' as EU4, the only way to gatelocking this effectively would be to add an 'Is Age of Absolutism' requisite, which we think would feel arbitrary and opposite to dynamic content. But we're open to suggestions on how to improve the immersion about this, as usual.
I was thinking about this, and I wonder if a simple requirement that the land had to be cored (not just owned) for 50 years would work. Historically, Brandenburg and Prussia were in a personal union for almost 100 years before they integrated into the Kingdom in Prussia. It would depend on each formable, but for the most part I think that requiring a solid and continuous hold on the land to be able to form a new country makes more sense then rocking up and instantly forming a new nation.
 
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The Magdeburg Rights should be available to other countries outside the HRE in Eastern Europe like Lithuania and Poland as some cities did gain them over time but they were ever adopted by Italian cities, so I don't think they should have the possibility to adopt it considering that they had their own city laws, I'm saying this after watching a video from Lord Lambert in which he confirmed that he had it avaliable as Milan
 
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Since we don't use the system 'Admin Tech = 10/20/etc' as EU4, the only way to gatelocking this effectively would be to add an 'Is Age of Absolutism' requisite, which we think would feel arbitrary and opposite to dynamic content. But we're open to suggestions on how to improve the immersion about this, as usual.
Personally, I would not like formable nations to be locked behind an age requirement. If you want to make it a little more difficult to form e.g. Prussia or other formable nations, why not require that certain provinces are all integrated, has a minimum level of control, and/or even have x% primary or accepted pop?
 
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Ya que el juego esta hecho para que su "jugabilidad" sea de hasta 500 años (1800) y que en este lapso de tiempo siga siendo interesante continuar una partida, es por ello que propongo el comentario de arriba. La mayoría de los jugadores habituales de EU casi nunca juegan los 300 años o más, al menos en EUIV, la pérdida de interés se acaba muy pronto en los primeros 200 años casi siempre. Aún con todas las mecánicas de Victoria 3 que están aplicando al juego, eso solo lo hace pesado pero no más interesante. Espero que me haya explicado.

Tal vez falta ver más mecánicas del juego pero hay un video de un youtuber llamado "ThePlaymaker" que lo consigue antes del 1400. Y entiendo que el juego aún esta en desarrollo y por ello me permito hacer sugerencias como estas, y animar a que otros también hagan sus propuestas.

Pd. No es necesario que traduzcas tus respuestas, se entiende perfecto.
Ah gotcha gotcha! Yeah snowballing in general is an issue, what I meant was the playmaker conquered the teutons using vanilla mechanics over 3-4 wars, then was able to form Prussia. What I think you were suggested initially was that forming Prussia (like clicking that button) was a problem, but I think you mean just the fact that he was able to do that by 1400 was the problem?
 
¡Ah, ya, ya! Sí, la bola de nieve en general es un problema. Me refería a que el creador de juego conquistó a los teutones usando mecánicas básicas durante 3 o 4 guerras y luego logró formar Prusia. Creo que lo que sugirieron inicialmente fue que formar Prusia (como pulsar ese botón) era un problema, pero creo que te refieres a que el problema era que lo lograra para el año 1400.
Sí exacto. Perdería interés continuar con la partida teniendo un snowball a partir de 1450 o antes.
 
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Since we don't use the system 'Admin Tech = 10/20/etc' as EU4, the only way to gatelocking this effectively would be to add an 'Is Age of Absolutism' requisite, which we think would feel arbitrary and opposite to dynamic content. But we're open to suggestions on how to improve the immersion about this, as usual.
Other less "arbitrary" gates to form Prussia is probably things like "x amount of standing army", "Must be Protestant", "Must have x average control" etc
 
Other less "arbitrary" gates to form Prussia is probably things like "x amount of standing army", "Must be Protestant", "Must have x average control" etc
I'm really not a fan of the must be Protestant requirement, it should be one path if there are restrictions, as you'd be secularizing the order.
 
I was thinking about this, and I wonder if a simple requirement that the land had to be cored (not just owned) for 50 years would work. Historically, Brandenburg and Prussia were in a personal union for almost 100 years before they integrated into the Kingdom in Prussia. It would depend on each formable, but for the most part I think that requiring a solid and continuous hold on the land to be able to form a new country makes more sense then rocking up and instantly forming a new nation.
Calling the entire realm "Prussia" was just a trick by Frederick III. / Frederick I. to elevate his status to a king (i.e., the king in Prussia), which wasn't possible within the HRE. In return, Frederick had to support the Emperor in the War of the Spanish Succession; the Emperor definitely had a say in this, the leader of the Commonwealth not so much. But to get a hold on Prussian territories, Brandenburg previously had to get recognition by the Commonwealth (Treaty of Wehlau, 1657; and the Treaty of Oliva, 1660).

It wasn't just "click a button and declare yourself the King of Prussia," it involved a lot of negotiations, bargaining, and formal recognition. I agree that there should be special flavor mechanis for Brandenburg-Prussia, with the last step being the formal recognition by the Emperor. If Brandenburg acquired Prussia through a PU from the Commonwealth (like in history), it might require another extra step, the recognition by the Commonwealth (Wehlau, Oliva).

However, that doesn't solve the problem of gatekeeping. So maybe a certain Advance called "Königswürde" (Royal Dignity) available during the Age of Reformation or Age of Absolutism would do the trick, and the Teutonic Order / Brandenburg have access to it to form their specific tag (=Prussia).

*edit* Changed the last paragraph because it was too meta.
 
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