Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

Are super-world specialized districts being weak a bug or balance?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Stellaris 54121 Bug Reports 37481 Console edition 1312 Suggestions 21717 Tech Support 3212 Multiplayer 392 User Mods 4793 Stellaris AAR (After Action Reports)
F

Forblaze

First Lieutenant
38 Badges
Jan 14, 2019
250
766
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka 2
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Magicka
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II
To me it feels unintentional, but it's been left alone for a while now and impacts a lot of different things.

On an ecunemopolis for example, each district built in the city district produces 600 jobs (300 per specialization). If you build a heavy industry specialization and a civilian industry specialization, that's 300 of each job.

If you take that civilian industry specialization and move it down to a specialized arcology though, it's still only producing 300 jobs for the same price of an entire district. Everyone knows you can build a single district here and spam 600 job buildings, but using these slots like that doesn't really feel intended.

This is easy to ignore for specializations buildable in the city district, but it gets really noticeable with extraction districts.

For example, ring worlds used to provide 10 jobs per district. Now, they provide 500 per specialization. So if you build two research specializations in the city district, it's effectively the same. If you want a ring world producing food though, you can't build those agricultural districts in the city district. You can only build them in the urban segments, where it's still only producing 500 jobs. That's half of the previous equivalent.

Normal worlds produce 300 jobs per extraction district. Hive and machine worlds provide 300 jobs per specialization, so using one for extraction districts effectively makes them equivalent to normal worlds, but with uncapped districts. So at first glance, this looks right. Nanite worlds though only provide 100 jobs per specialization, which means they're only providing a third of the jobs of a normal world.

So are nanite and ring worlds just an acceptable casualty here? Or is something not working correctly?
 
  • 10Like
  • 2
Reactions:
I think many issues would be solved in the current version if they simply made every type of district, everywhere, have two specialization slots.

It would be a lot of building slots, sure, but considering how restrictive rural districts are for buildings, what are we going to do to break it, spam resource silos? Spam a few hundred extra jobs?

I also find myself disliking the flat 200-600 Job buildings. They feel like a hold over from the prior system and are really messy in the current version. Specializations add jobs to districts, buildings modify jobs or have a special effect. I'd like it to be more like that and less spam flat job buildings.
 
Last edited:
  • 6Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Forblaze said:
If you take that civilian industry specialization and move it down to a specialized arcology though, it's still only producing 300 jobs for the same price of an entire district. Everyone knows you can build a single district here and spam 600 job buildings, but using these slots like that doesn't really feel intended.
Click to expand...
That is absolutely intended, and that is the entire reason you get the various super-worlds: to shove twice as many or more Metallurgists onto that planet.

Stellaris is a Grand Strategy game masquerading as a 4X, and your military power is directly proportional to your Alloys production.

It's fair to say that Ecumenopoli aren't as good as they were in 3.14 relative to all the other options, but that's not because they were nerfed, rather everything else was buffed.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
XCodes said:
That is absolutely intended, and that is the entire reason you get the various super-worlds: to shove twice as many or more Metallurgists onto that planet.
Click to expand...
No, you're not reading what he wrote. It "doesn't really feel intended" that the bottom districts on super-worlds provide half the jobs of the main district. You'd build one of each to get the building slots, but why would you ever build more of them when they provide half the jobs?
 
XCodes said:
That is absolutely intended, and that is the entire reason you get the various super-worlds: to shove twice as many or more Metallurgists onto that planet.

Stellaris is a Grand Strategy game masquerading as a 4X, and your military power is directly proportional to your Alloys production.

It's fair to say that Ecumenopoli aren't as good as they were in 3.14 relative to all the other options, but that's not because they were nerfed, rather everything else was buffed.
Click to expand...
No, they were nerfed. Both Ring Worlds to quite a degree, and Ecus slightly less were nerfed when the numbers of jobs they provide were severely reduced. Which in turn makes Ecus now a vastly worse investment. Ecus didn't deserve such a change, and neither did Ring Worlds.

Saying "it's intended" also needs proof. Where did they state they wanted to make both Ecus and Ring Worlds weaker, especially since the latter were already a "win more" late game thing?
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
It can't be intended, simply by looking at the fact that shattered ringworlds provide more basic resource jobs than a restored ringworld.
 
  • 2
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I believe absolutely none of the changes to Ringworlds was "intentional". They straight up forgot to remove clerks from ringworld districts, for example. Clerks are supposed to be gone by now.
 
  • 5
Reactions:
RoverStorm said:
I think many issues would be solved in the current version if they simply made every type of district, everywhere, have two specialization slots.

It would be a lot of building slots, sure, but considering how restrictive rural districts are for buildings, what are we going to do to break it, spam resource silos? Spam a few hundred extra jobs?

I also find myself disliking the flat 200-600 Job buildings. They feel like a hold over from the prior system and are really messy in the current version. Specializations add jobs to districts, buildings modify jobs or have a special effect. I'd like it to be more like that and less spam flat job buildings.
Click to expand...
I was messing around with specializations and the new planet interface, and one thing I tried was giving secondary districts a second specialization. Sadly, while the game will happily let you assign two specialization slots to a rural district it appears to be impossible to change the interface to let you interact with the second specialization slot - the specialization area for the primary district is a grid of zones, but the secondary districts' equivalent area seems to be hardcoded for a single zone.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Exasperation said:
I was messing around with specializations and the new planet interface, and one thing I tried was giving secondary districts a second specialization. Sadly, while the game will happily let you assign two specialization slots to a rural district it appears to be impossible to change the interface to let you interact with the second specialization slot - the specialization area for the primary district is a grid of zones, but the secondary districts' equivalent area seems to be hardcoded for a single zone.
Click to expand...
It's possible for sure, some mods have done it already, the problem is you probably have to make a new interface for it.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Metallichydra said:
It can't be intended, simply by looking at the fact that shattered ringworlds provide more basic resource jobs than a restored ringworld.
Click to expand...
Yeah, which should be a sure sign of it.

There's also Hive/Machine Worlds vs Ecus. They are curently very similar. When the latter are way more limited, they can't produce basic resources. And way more costly, requiring a huge investment in the form of 10 years during which nothing can be done, to be filled up with specific districts, 200 influence, and a huge amount of minerals. Where the other two only require a bit of terraforming.
 
  • 4
Reactions:
RoverStorm said:
It's possible for sure, some mods have done it already, the problem is you probably have to make a new interface for it.
Click to expand...
Do you have an example of a mod like that? All I see is a mod that adds more zones to the primary district (which already has a grid of zones in the interface that you can expand to include more entries).
 
Exasperation said:
Do you have an example of a mod like that? All I see is a mod that adds more zones to the primary district (which already has a grid of zones in the interface that you can expand to include more entries).
Click to expand...
Ohh no that was the one I was thinking of. I assumed that both primary and secondary districts were fixed and required editing the UI, therefore such a mod had already made their own interface that could also be updated with secondary districts. Didn't know the primary district was special and uniquely expandable.
 
While ringworlds and ecus were nerfed in theoretical capacity, they were buffed by the existence of Automation buildings allowing you to actually use 20 ecus and 5 ringworlds when you can build them in 2350 rather than sitting around till 2900 to have the pops for them. This isn't really relevant to the thread point though, which is the secondary districts being weaker than the primary ones.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I have also a case similar to this: i conquered this research habitat, and i have two possible districts to build:
  • 1 City district, providing 600 housing and 200 jobs (whatever specialization)
  • 1 Research district, providing 300 housing and 190 jobs
why would i ever build more than one of the second kind, when the first kind is strictly better?
 
Eddi said:
I have also a case similar to this: i conquered this research habitat, and i have two possible districts to build:
  • 1 City district, providing 600 housing and 200 jobs (whatever specialization)
  • 1 Research district, providing 300 housing and 190 jobs
why would i ever build more than one of the second kind, when the first kind is strictly better?
Click to expand...
You can't use a habitat's city district for research specialization.
 
I haven't used RW in new system yet. But they was underwhelming, comparing to ecus even in 3.14. req for RW, alloys, influence, time, techs, and end result is in pair of ecu at best. Now even worse... Pdx hates ringworlds
 
  • 1
Reactions:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back