The stellaris_test Open Beta branch has been updated again on Steam - it's still the same as 4.0.13 plus the faster save transferring for multiplayer, but also resolves an infamous ECONOMY_* out of sync issue.
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The farm science specialization district is unable to build the Fallen Empire building Nourishment Complex or center for food whereas it can still build hydroponics which is the normal empire equivalent.
The other research specializations can build their fallen empire equivalents.
The other research specializations can build their fallen empire equivalents.
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Decoupling Slaves from normal jobs would allow to balance them properly.
Allowing slaves to do normal jobs causes issue of either doublestacking modifiers (old Stellaris) where Slave Researchers were best Researchers in the game or no doublestacking modifiers, where they are useless (situation before 4.0).
Also: there would still be an option to use Slaves for normal jobs (Indentured Servitude which is 90% pick anyway) where problem could be addressed as well.
The core change here would be to allow Chattel Slaves work as Laborers - giving it interesting niche and alternative when compared to Indentured Servitude.
Slavery is very weak right now and requires strong adjustments. I don’t want us to go back to Enslaved Technocracy meta as it was both stupid and boring. But I want Slavery to at least provide something unique.
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Balancing Slavery in Stellaris seemed to always be a double-edged sword. Either being useless or overpowered.
I think slaves should just get their own strata and not be classified as common workers or make it so that planets with a slave population have to rely on them, giving increased output for slower economic growth, with free citizens now no longer wanting to work worker class jobs.
Making work for them more restrictive I think could also work and giving all slaves an "Unemployed/Civilian"-Equivalent, like Servants for Domestic Servitude. Chattel Slaves could be Toilers producing small amounts of basic resources, Battle-Thralls could become Drill-Instructors that give Defense Army Bonuses and Indentured Servants could be Civil Servants, working the day to day gears of the empire and producing small amounts of Ethics Attraction and Stability or Edict Fund.
And some Types of Slaves should be barred from working jobs they are not meant to work, like Domestic Servants in the Mines or Battle Thralls working as technicians.
Something I would love to see would be the Thrall-World becoming a very specialized type of planet like the Resort World in 4.0 with special Resource Districts and jobs. Since Battle-Thrall Districts are either removed or currently non functional the resource districts could be replaced with Slave-Quarries and such, producing increased basic resources at the cost of stability to reflect a whole planet of forced labour that could easily explode (unless Nerve-Stapled)
A lot of issues I think stem from them simply being mixed with workers to a degree where both are basically the same. I think slavery should be something to actively opt into and build up in the game as a practice like this would be incredibly important in the empire's economy and politics. Why work grueling shifts as a miner when you have an indentured workforce who can do this while you can be a researcher or just a civillian living off the back of it? Slavery centric civics could even go so far that some jobs like miners, farmers etc. become only available to slaves and can no longer be worked by free pops. Since Job Swaps became a big part in 4.0 it could be part of the Slave Processing Plant to turn Jobs into Slave Strata jobs.
Also hot take: Xenophobes should not be able to enslave. I think it is a lot better suited to authoritarians who already are leaning towards higher worker/slave output and the faction demanding either slaves or a stratified society to be happy. Xenophobes don't even demand slaves, just no Full Citizenship for Xenos. Slave Guilds and Indentured Assets (Megacorp Civic) even need authoritarian ethics to be selected, no xenophobe.
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honestly the Biogenesis doesn't give Food Producing Megastructure & Overpowered Army is just such a let down compare with the price of this DLC.
Food become more important with Behemoth Fury & Space Fauna Fleet, Empire with BioShip also use Food to build other Megastructure as well.
maybe because i set my expectation on the level of Machine Age DLC huh.
Food become more important with Behemoth Fury & Space Fauna Fleet, Empire with BioShip also use Food to build other Megastructure as well.
maybe because i set my expectation on the level of Machine Age DLC huh.
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Thank you for the continous patches.
Can you please have a look at the balance between rare ressources extraction (orbital station) vs synthethisations (through CG or Alloy specialists)
Both are T2 techs with the same costs in each of their research branch (2x engineering, 1x physics).
With 4.0 there is never an incentative to ever do somethinh else then synthetisations.
See the screenshot. I have an average CG eco in an average unoptimized playthrough producing ~370 rare ressources each. Meanwhile my orbitals gather 4 rare crystals, 2 motes and zero gas.
Even when you just researched the tech you already get 10-20 on your early alloy or CG planet. You never need more then one of this building on one of your planets.
It renders so many things obsolete:
- Rare ressource orbitals, don't care
- The Modularium, a lategame relic you only get through focus on exploring, investing in traditions, a DLC itself and then need randomness to get it offered
- Ancient Refinery / Aerotech. So you need a rare tech? For a building that isn't even better and lets you save two building slots
The synthetisation buildings are so overtuned. They produce like 5x as much as they should, they don't have any population costs as they are worked by the same alloy or cg specialists. The tech is T2 and costs the same as their orbital / worker equivalent.
Please:
- Nerf their output to like a fourth or fifth
- Make the tech for them T3 and let the ressource extraction tech be their precondition.
Best way would be to revert those changes to Pre-4.0 where you at least had to invest into a colony with population to synthetisize a moderate amount of them.
This is so unfun. While i can avoid Psionics Telepath spam by simply not use the Psionic ascensions, there is no way arround those synthetatisation buildings as I have to get those ressources but they are linked to CG/Alloy production which i have to scale so there is no way to avoid this OP stuff in the first place
Edit: And it renders other parts of gameplay obsolete. 2 minerals for 1 rare ressource, then boosted by efficiency. From the 370 each ressource i maybe barely need 50/month. Simply sell 320 at the marked and be better then a dedicated trader with a whole tradition or civic behind...
Can you please have a look at the balance between rare ressources extraction (orbital station) vs synthethisations (through CG or Alloy specialists)
Both are T2 techs with the same costs in each of their research branch (2x engineering, 1x physics).
With 4.0 there is never an incentative to ever do somethinh else then synthetisations.
See the screenshot. I have an average CG eco in an average unoptimized playthrough producing ~370 rare ressources each. Meanwhile my orbitals gather 4 rare crystals, 2 motes and zero gas.
Even when you just researched the tech you already get 10-20 on your early alloy or CG planet. You never need more then one of this building on one of your planets.
It renders so many things obsolete:
- Rare ressource orbitals, don't care
- The Modularium, a lategame relic you only get through focus on exploring, investing in traditions, a DLC itself and then need randomness to get it offered
- Ancient Refinery / Aerotech. So you need a rare tech? For a building that isn't even better and lets you save two building slots
The synthetisation buildings are so overtuned. They produce like 5x as much as they should, they don't have any population costs as they are worked by the same alloy or cg specialists. The tech is T2 and costs the same as their orbital / worker equivalent.
Please:
- Nerf their output to like a fourth or fifth
- Make the tech for them T3 and let the ressource extraction tech be their precondition.
Best way would be to revert those changes to Pre-4.0 where you at least had to invest into a colony with population to synthetisize a moderate amount of them.
This is so unfun. While i can avoid Psionics Telepath spam by simply not use the Psionic ascensions, there is no way arround those synthetatisation buildings as I have to get those ressources but they are linked to CG/Alloy production which i have to scale so there is no way to avoid this OP stuff in the first place
Edit: And it renders other parts of gameplay obsolete. 2 minerals for 1 rare ressource, then boosted by efficiency. From the 370 each ressource i maybe barely need 50/month. Simply sell 320 at the marked and be better then a dedicated trader with a whole tradition or civic behind...
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In our multiplayer game, around year 2310, desyncs (FLEET_ORDER, RANDOM_COUNT, ...) started to happen after the voidswarm event started. the only solution for us was to delete every voidswarm nest/fleet after it spawned (and the desync happened) by loading the save in singleplayer and deleting everything related via console.
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Not the best example since they were essentially serfs to the Company Towns.
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If you make the Strategic Extraction tech be the prerequisite for Synthesization Techs(aka Refineries), then you'll likely never get them unless you happen to be lucky with Strategic Resource spawn on Planets or Orbital Deposits because the prerequisite for Extraction Techs is that you actually have a deposit in your Empire. I once went 100 years without the Volatile Mote Extraction Tech because I didn't have a Planet with Dust Caverns or an Orbital Deposit of Motes to mine. Were it not for the Refinery Tech that I got way earlier, I would have been in real trouble with respect to Physics Research and Alloy production that relies upon it.
I do agree that Refinery productivity is way out of whack though. I'd nerf it by a factor of 10(at minimum), not 5 so for every 100 Industrial jobs, you produce at most 0.15 Strategics or less than what you could get from 100 Miners or via Extraction Buildings(ex: Gas Well).
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They said it'll be next Tuesday, apparently
Oh f***, not my individualist machines!
Okay I tested this with my Individualist machine empire, and the pop grows just fine it seems?
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I'm curious why during a war with another empire the Civilian Industries building is removed from my planet?
Any chance of the rare resource refinery tech getting a boost to availability? Sometimes these take forever... my current game at 2304 I still do not have the one for crystals. I've been taking the cheapest techs over and over to roll for this and nothing. This is really obnoxious at this point.
We seem to still be getting a constant COUNTRY_RESOURCES desync at one point in the mid/late game (last time was 2340s, now it's 2410s). Can't really tell if it's our mods causing it, or something else is amiss
It seems in version 4.0.13 AI actually build quite fleets, but in current balance building outvalue hard against building zones+districts while AI choose to build districts. And with that they fall behind science, result in poor weapons with terrible design. 160 command capacity fleet have only 30~33k meanwhile human player can way outpace that. For example mauler 80 fleet can be 25k. My guess is AI adjusted with dev version where building served as suppliment for zones which can be ignorable in mind but live version building way outperform than zones by flat job numbers and modifiers so AI can't follow player's meta playing. Oh by the way AI keep wasting their society research by pop editing, sabotage their already bad society research.
Also same observation it seems performance issue comes from wars, not economy(at least in AI way). 1st day of every month which calculate income and pop growth is quite optimized. But every other than 1st day run slower and slower while calc day keep same speed. And intense battle between 10~20 fleet stack create extreme lag combining bad ships battle take lot longer than expected. And it seems AI use subjugation war goal too much. That war goal is almost never surrender and with that war drag on many years. That can be one reason for performance lose, meaningless long dragged war.
I suggest choose either make building work like zones or give AI this knowledge(fill slots first). Personally I prefer building work like zones since that is easy to understand by linking between zone and zone building, and with that don't need every zone slots should be filled immediately(which reduce micro).
I attach save I observed. I hope this helps to make AI better.
Edit: It seems due to low science, ongoing AI war takes 15~25 years to finish while they use way more fleet(like 800~1200 capacity). Which means if ai agressiveness go higher it create more lags too.
Also same observation it seems performance issue comes from wars, not economy(at least in AI way). 1st day of every month which calculate income and pop growth is quite optimized. But every other than 1st day run slower and slower while calc day keep same speed. And intense battle between 10~20 fleet stack create extreme lag combining bad ships battle take lot longer than expected. And it seems AI use subjugation war goal too much. That war goal is almost never surrender and with that war drag on many years. That can be one reason for performance lose, meaningless long dragged war.
I suggest choose either make building work like zones or give AI this knowledge(fill slots first). Personally I prefer building work like zones since that is easy to understand by linking between zone and zone building, and with that don't need every zone slots should be filled immediately(which reduce micro).
I attach save I observed. I hope this helps to make AI better.
Edit: It seems due to low science, ongoing AI war takes 15~25 years to finish while they use way more fleet(like 800~1200 capacity). Which means if ai agressiveness go higher it create more lags too.
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We've updated stellaris_test again with another out of sync fix. It continues to have the experimental save game transfer change.
Let us know if it helps!
Let us know if it helps!
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I appreciate the quick pace of patches, but like many others have said it just shows clearly how early the DLC and the patch was released. I have often bought recent Stellaris DLCs either during pre-order or shortly afterwards but I am decided to wait on this. I haven't even really played the patch yet as it is almost impossible to keep track how well (or poorly) the game works at the moment.
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I cant pick Behemoth Fury as a wilderness empire as your patch notes say you can. The wilderness origin block all ascensions path except Purity
So what am i doing wrong ? I cant figure out how to become a wilderness without taking that origin.
So what am i doing wrong ? I cant figure out how to become a wilderness without taking that origin.
Behemoth Fury is a Crisis ascension perk, not an ascension path or empire origin.
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