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Tinto Flavour #20 - 23rd of May 2025

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Tuesdays & Fridays in which we take a look at the content of Europa Universalis V!

Today we will be taking a look at the content of Muscovy, and its ‘successor state’, Russia, after Grand Prince Ivan III ‘the Great’ proclaimed himself ‘Sovereign of All Russia’. This is a special TF, because it’s the first one in which we show the content for one of the seven ‘Tier 1’ counties, those that we consider the most important in the 1337-1836 period, and thus, that have the most content in the game.

Let’s start taking a look at it, as usual:

The Grand Principality of Muscovy stands at a crossroads of political maneuvering, and economic troubles under the Tatar Yoke, and an ongoing power struggle among East Slavic principalities, each vying for supremacy within the fragmented Rus' territories. The Tatar invasion continues to cast a long shadow over the region and Muscovy, like many other Rus' principalities, remains a tributary to the formidable Golden Horde.

Guiding Muscovy through these complexities is Grand Prince Ivan Rurikovich, a leader keenly aware of the delicate balance required for survival under Tatar dominion. He has skillfully managed the principality's affairs through diplomatic initiatives and strategic alliances and now seeks to consolidate power and enhance Muscovy's standing within the Yoke, with aspirations to unite the Rus' land under one banner.

Country Selection.png

As usual, consider all UI, 2D and 3D art WIP.

Muscovy1.png

Muscovy2.png

This is the starting diplomatic situation of Muscovy:
Personal Unions.png

Muscovy starts in a Personal Union with a bunch of principalities, including Novgorod, which is a Republic that elects its rulers among those of other countries.

Tatar Yoke.png

This is the current starting state of the Tatar Yoke, with Muscovy being entitled as the ‘Grand Prince of Vladimir’ - or, in other words, the ‘tribute collector’ for the Tatars. We won’t talk about this feature today, but in the Tinto Flavour devoted to the Golden Horde.

These are some of the privileges that the Russian countries have available from the start:
Privilege Kormlenije.png

Privilege The Ryad.png

Priviliege Tysiatskii Office.png

Also, this starting Legal Code Policy:
Policy Russkaya Pravda.png

Here you have some of the advances available for Muscovy and Russia through the ages, as usual:
Advance Gatherers Tribute.png

Advance Pomestnoe.png

Advance Zasechnara.png

Advance Imperial Guard.png

And now let’s move into the narrative content. Muscovy has 109 Dynamic Historical Events available, while there are another 73 unlockable after having formed Russia, which makes for a total of 182 available DHEs - that’s what being a ‘Tier 1’ country means, in regards to content. Many of them will unlock very different types of other content assets, as you’ll see now:

Event Campaigns against Novgorod.png

This is an event that may trigger if Novgorod elects another ruler, as happened historically.

Kremlin.png

Kremlin2.png

If you build the Kremlin, there will be further events related to it.

Event Denga and Ruble.png


Event Prikazi.png

Reform Prikazi.png


Event Book of Census.png

Reform Razriadnyi.png


Event Sophia Komnenos.png

ReformByzantine Court Ceremonies.png

If Byzantium falls, and some other conditions are met, you might be able to marry a Greek princess, and proclaim your country as the ‘Third Rome’.

If you expand your country, you might be able to form Russia at a certain point:
Form Russia.png

Russian Empire.png

Russian Empire2.png

The Russian Principalities account for approximately 460 locations, so you need to conquer some more from the Golden Horde to get to the 508 required. I forced it through the console to show it to you, but one of our QA testers made a recent run, and he was able to form it around 1500, OOC.

When the Age of Reformation starts, there will be this advance available for the Russian countries:
Siberian Frontier1.png

That unlocks:
Pomor Outpost.png

Settle the Frontier.png

It’s also possible for a unique disaster to trigger, the Time of Troubles:
Time of Troubles1.png

Time of Troubles2.png

Time of Troubles3.png

Time of Troubles4.png

Time of Troubles5.png

Time of Troubles has many different events happening, on top of the DHEs:

If you overcome it, there’s even more late-game content, of course:

Reform Collegium.png


Reform Nakaz.png


Reform Speransky.png


Event Bolshoi.png

Bolsoi Theater.png

… And much more, but that’s all for today! As today is Friday, this will be the schedule for next week:
  • Monday -> Tinto Flavour about Venice and Genoa
  • Tuesday -> Tinto Flavour about Serbia and Georgia
  • Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about the Orthodox and Miaphysite religions
  • Thursday -> Third ‘Behind the Scenes’ video!
  • Friday -> Tinto Flavour about the Roman Empire, AKA Byzantium
And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
 
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I am not well-versed in Russian history, so I went to Wikipedia and saw this

wPO5I5u.png


I imagine Muscovy represents the Principality of Moscow, and Russia represents the Russian Empire. So what about the Tsardom of Russia? Is it when the ruler of Muscovy breaks free from the Golden Horde and declares himself a Tsar (as in, becomes fully independent in-game)? Or is it when you proclaim yourself as Third Rome? Regardless, is there an event for this?

And, finally, isn't it weird that you can form the Russian Empire in the 15th century? Or is that just a balance issue you'll fix later?
 
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Honestly, the regional requirements for the formation of Russia are strange. They basically mean that you can form Russia while majority of your country is Steppes and Ural locations.

Surely owning parts of Ruthenia or even White Sea Coast region would give stronger claims than either of the above?

If we consider the "formation of Russia" to be the crowning of Ivan IV as Tsar of Russia in 1547, at this point he ruled places like Smolensk and Chernigov, while any significant conquest and colonization of the Steppe was yet to come. It's a weird notion that owning places like Perm tips the scale.

Speaking of which, the crowning in question seems like a better fit for the "formation of Russia" than titular claims "... of all Rus" by Ivan III, since such claims, although more fragmentary are present in coins, stamps, and documents, going all the way back to Ivan I, the ruler of Muscowy at the very start of EU5.
 
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Is there content for the Greek Plan, both the planned Neo-Byzantine state and the many historical Black Sea cities that got built and given Greek names? I want to found Odessa without me having to manually type that name it.

Side note, we can still rename locations manually, right?
 
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1. Just changed 'Boyars' to 'Boyarstvo', for consistency with the rest of the estates.
2. The Table of Ranks is an advance:
View attachment 1305175
Thanks for sharing so much new events, reforms and advances, and its great to imagen even more being there!
Yet, Table of Ranks, advancement asks for another question.
Will it be strictly "military" oriented one, with the modifiers shown there, or there will a "second one" of the same name, but for something regarding civil service?
As it was not only for army, but also for bureaucratic needs, of civil and court ranks and it was definitely not the "non-important" art of it.
If it seems then too strong with several good modifiers, again, maybe separate it into 2 advances aka " Table Of Ranks: Army", "Table of Rank: Civil", or probably put a "debuff" with something regarding getting a hereditary "noble" status for people after rank 8, I believe.


As, even in EU4, we have have it in Ideas with not only Army Traditions, but Advisor Cost as well.
Thanks!
 
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Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Tuesdays & Fridays in which we take a look at the content of Europa Universalis V!

Today we will be taking a look at the content of Muscovy, and its ‘successor state’, Russia, after Grand Prince Ivan III ‘the Great’ proclaimed himself ‘Sovereign of All Russia’. This is a special TF, because it’s the first one in which we show the content for one of the seven ‘Tier 1’ counties, those that we consider the most important in the 1337-1836 period, and thus, that have the most content in the game.

Let’s start taking a look at it, as usual:



View attachment 1304901
As usual, consider all UI, 2D and 3D art WIP.

View attachment 1304902
View attachment 1304903

This is the starting diplomatic situation of Muscovy:
View attachment 1304904
Muscovy starts in a Personal Union with a bunch of principalities, including Novgorod, which is a Republic that elects its rulers among those of other countries.

View attachment 1304905
This is the current starting state of the Tatar Yoke, with Muscovy being entitled as the ‘Grand Prince of Vladimir’ - or, in other words, the ‘tribute collector’ for the Tatars. We won’t talk about this feature today, but in the Tinto Flavour devoted to the Golden Horde.

These are some of the privileges that the Russian countries have available from the start:

Also, this starting Legal Code Policy:

Here you have some of the advances available for Muscovy and Russia through the ages, as usual:

And now let’s move into the narrative content. Muscovy has 109 Dynamic Historical Events available, while there are another 73 unlockable after having formed Russia, which makes for a total of 182 available DHEs - that’s what being a ‘Tier 1’ country means, in regards to content. Many of them will unlock very different types of other content assets, as you’ll see now:

View attachment 1304914
This is an event that may trigger if Novgorod elects another ruler, as happened historically.

View attachment 1304915
View attachment 1304916
If you build the Kremlin, there will be further events related to it.

View attachment 1304917

View attachment 1304918
View attachment 1304919

View attachment 1304920
View attachment 1304921

View attachment 1304922
View attachment 1304923
If Byzantium falls, and some other conditions are met, you might be able to marry a Greek princess, and proclaim your country as the ‘Third Rome’.

If you expand your country, you might be able to form Russia at a certain point:
View attachment 1304924
View attachment 1304925
View attachment 1304926
The Russian Principalities account for approximately 460 locations, so you need to conquer some more from the Golden Horde to get to the 508 required. I forced it through the console to show it to you, but one of our QA testers made a recent run, and he was able to form it around 1500, OOC.

When the Age of Reformation starts, there will be this advance available for the Russian countries:

That unlocks:

It’s also possible for a unique disaster to trigger, the Time of Troubles:
View attachment 1304927
View attachment 1304928
View attachment 1304929
View attachment 1304930
View attachment 1304931
Time of Troubles has many different events happening, on top of the DHEs:

If you overcome it, there’s even more late-game content, of course:


… And much more, but that’s all for today! As today is Friday, this will be the schedule for next week:
  • Monday -> Tinto Flavour about Venice and Genoa
  • Tuesday -> Tinto Flavour about Serbia and Georgia
  • Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about the Orthodox and Miaphysite religions
  • Thursday -> Third ‘Behind the Scenes’ video!
  • Friday -> Tinto Flavour about the Roman Empire, AKA Byzantium
And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
What does age of reformation have to do with the Siberian frontier?
 
I don't like the idea of unique buildings that arrive from events. If you didn't plan for it, or costs would be problematic at that specific time are they really things that you can't decide to build 5 years later?
 
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What does age of reformation have to do with the Siberian frontier?
That's the age it happened historicly.

I suppose the next question is did it happen then because that's when the Golden Horde died, or if there was a deeper technological or sociological reason. If it was the first then there's no reason to limit it by time period, but it's probably the second.
 
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When the Age of Reformation starts, there will be this advance available for the Russian countries:

That unlocks:

The concept of Pomor outposts as presented here seems quite strange.

Pomor refers to an ethnic subgroup inhabiting the coasts of the White and Barenets Seas, whose traditional occupation is fishing. While Pomors did play a role in early Russian expansion to Siberia, as they sailed to the Gulf of Ob region and established fishing outposts there, their influence was limited to this specific region and fairly short-lived. Fittingly, the description of the advance and building makes no mention of Pomors or the northern Siberian region they were active in.

Most significant advances to Siberia were associated with the Russian government's desire to collect yasak (a form of tribute imposed on the indigenous Siberian population, mainly in the form of furs), which led to the establishment of a number of fortified outposts known as ostrogs. Ostrogs were mainly built and maintained by Cossacks in government service and served two functions: being an administrative center for collecting yasak as well as protecting Russian colonists from hostile actions of the local population. Thus, establishing an ostrog in a specific area was usually the first step towards securing Russian control over it. Though ostrogs were established in other regions, this term became closely associated with the colonization of Siberia, as many modern Siberian cities were built on the foundation of earlier ostrogs. This is what the description of advance and building seem to point to by mentioning Cossacks, gathering of fur and fish and fur trade. However, in this case one would expect these buildings to also provide some form of fortification.

In summary, if this building is intended to represent all Russian expansion to Siberia, its name paints a bizarre and ahistorical picture of Pomors as the driving force behind Russian colonization of Siberia, including deep continental regions nowhere near the places historically inhabited by Pomors. Thus, I suggest renaming the building to ostrog as well as giving it a defensive bonus and representing Cossacks employed for its maintenance.​
 
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DateName of WarEnemy 1Enemy 2Results
1558–1583Livonian WarRussian TsardomLithuania, Poland (later PLC), Livonia, Denmark, Norway, SwedenPLC-Livonian victory. Russia failed to conquer Livonia, suffered economic crisis leading to Time of Troubles.
1605–1618Polish–Muscovite War (Time of Troubles)Poland-LithuaniaRussiaPolish occupation of Moscow; Treaty of Deulino ends war; PLC gains Smolensk and other territories.
1632–1634Smolensk WarPoland-LithuaniaRussiaPLC victory; Smolensk retained by PLC after Treaty of Polyanovka.
1654–1667Russo-Polish War (Thirteen Years' War)RussiaPoland-LithuaniaRussian victory; Treaty of Andrusovo divides Ukraine between PLC and Russia. (During Swedish Deluge) and russia looses all battles against PLC which wasnt able to retake ukrainan lands from cossacks.
1792Polish–Russian War (War in Defense of the Constitution)RussiaPolandRussian victory; leads to Second Partition of Poland.
1794Kościuszko UprisingRussia, PrussiaPolandRussian victory; uprising crushed; leads to Third Partition of Poland and dissolution of PLC.
From all your posts here I can see, that there was a approximately hundred years period, when PLC managed to achieve victories against Russia. Worth to mention, that this is only about 20% of the game timeline, and this goes directly against your claim about weak/insignificant Moscovy/Russia.
And how can you claim early/mid game polish supremacy, if you state that Poland did not fight Muscovy/Russia before the Livonian war?

And you even mentioned, that the first part of 1600 was called "Time of Troubles" in russian lands, so even during one of the most difficult moments for russian states, PLC failed to defeat them desciesevly, removing or significantly weakening potential future opponent.

As for gameplay reasons - important countries may be the countries, with unique and challenging conditions. I still remember fun of playing early EU4 patches as Venice, trying to resist Ottomans and had a great time. Venice probably would be among on the the first of my campaings in EU5.
Muscovy/Russia provide a lot of challenge in interesting historical ways of development. From my point of view, Muscovy is more challenging and interesting, than Poland or Lithuania start in 1337.
 
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From all your posts here I can see, that there was a approximately hundred years period, when PLC managed to achieve victories against Russia. Worth to mention, that this is only about 20% of the game timeline, and this goes directly against your claim about weak/insignificant Moscovy/Russia.
And how can you claim early/mid game polish supremacy, if you state that Poland did not fight Muscovy/Russia before the Livonian war?

And you even mentioned, that the first part of 1600 was called "Time of Troubles" in russian lands, so even during one of the most difficult moments for russian states, PLC failed to defeat them desciesevly, removing or significantly weakening potential future opponent.

As for gameplay reasons - important countries may be the countries, with unique and challenging conditions. I still remember fun of playing early EU4 patches as Venice, trying to resist Ottomans and had a great time. Venice probably would be among on the the first of my campaings in EU5.
Muscovy/Russia provide a lot of challenge in interesting historical ways of development. From my point of view, Muscovy is more challenging and interesting, than Poland or Lithuania start in 1337.
"And you even mentioned, that the first part of 1600 was called "Time of Troubles" in russian lands, so even during one of the most difficult moments for russian states, PLC failed to defeat them desciesevly, removing or significantly weakening potential future opponent."

They literally decisively defeated russia, russai nnobility even wanted to crown polish king son as their tsar.

From all your posts here I can see, that there was a approximately hundred years period, when PLC managed to achieve victories against Russia. Worth to mention, that this is only about 20% of the game timeline, and this goes directly against your claim about weak/insignificant Moscovy/Russia.
And how can you claim early/mid game polish supremacy, if you state that Poland did not fight Muscovy/Russia before the Livonian war?



Btw absence of proof is not proof of absence.

From all your posts here I can see, that there was a approximately hundred years period, when PLC managed to achieve victories against Russia.

Ignoring how nonsensical this statement is, it would be true for russia as well, in time frame of the game, russai was able to defeate poland in only 2 wars, arguably 1 at best, as during 1654 they lost one battle and plc had to divert their focus to sweden, after that they only achieved stalement with tired and devastated commonwealth, in 1792, they won only through betrayal of plc king Poniatowski, one battle that happened during the war was won by PLC and decisively so, yet Poniatowski (russian puppet) ordered army to stand down and surrendered to russia.


So assuming plc is weaker then russia as they didnt wage war agaisnt them is dishonest, would you say ulm was stronger then france as they never waged war???
Or that prussia was always stronger then france, as france fought prussia only once prussia before losing next war to them?

Also peroid of Russia being more important then PLC in European stage and as Eastenr European power is only about 28% of game span, that is in comparison of PLC(Poland Lithuania befoe 1569 even as that is just date of unification of both realms before that they have been in PU) even if we only start at 1569 time frame is similar to russian importance. Yet plc was important even before that being one of largest and most centralsied states in Europe, between 1300-1400 being among top 10 strongest nations in Europe, while at the same time muscovy was just gainging its strenght, between 1400-1500 it could be argued to be among top 3 biggest powers in Europe, with Ottomans, France and HRE among that number, while between 1500-1600 it was one of most populous states, Russia even while being few times larger during this time still had smaller population. Even after plc decline in 1700s it was only behind Britain, France, Russia, Austria, Prussia, in terms of power the counties we consdier abslute powerhouses, and its ability to fight was restriced mostly by being compleatly surroudned by its rivals. That is also the time when russia actually becomes stronger then PLC.

Peroid of Commonwealth and poland importance stretches between 1360-1700 which is about 65% of eu5 time frame, which even if we stretch Russian importance to happend from 1630s to 1836 it would be 40% and it is still less if we shorten peroid of plc importance to between 1380-1655(to swedish deluge) , 55% of time frame.


They didnt fight,why?

Why should poland invade russian territories, nothing really to gain, there was only 1 offesnive war done by plc agaisnt russia, and that was the one in times of troubles, otherwise every subsecquent war was russia invading plc during the time it was weakest, like after kings death thinking they could win without involvement of sweden or ottomans, they lost.

The point ist Muscovy/Russia weak or insignificant, it was insignificant as just one of russia principalities before rising to power, yet they were still weaker then then PLC, not beign able to beat PLC army even after swedish deluge greatly weakened it, where plc lost land in favour to russia only due ot their inability to decisively defeate cossacks.

And all of that is just military matters, diplomatically Russia was irrelevant in europe, serving only as conqeror in steppes, contrary to that plc was improtant player serving as bulwark agaisnt muscovy and ottomans, and events in PLC influenced dynasties and sitations in HRE, Sweden or Hungary, while Russiaw as isolated from european politics.

While Muscovy was largely isolated from Renaissance and Enlightenment Europe, the Commonwealth was deeply connected to Western ideas. Poland was part of the Latin Christian world, used Latin in education and law, and had major universities like Kraków’s Jagiellonian University, founded in 1364, Russiad didnt even have university until 1755, and if we include religous learning 1687, but the school was theology focused and didnt teach anything else.

"As for gameplay reasons - important countries may be the countries, with unique and challenging conditions. I still remember fun of playing early EU4 patches as Venice, trying to resist Ottomans and had a great time. Venice probably would be among on the the first of my campaings in EU5."

Tinto Flavour literally states that importance of country in 1337-1836 is the metric, to which I disagree that muscovy russia was more important then PLC during that time between 1700s-1836 yes but before, no.

PLC impact on eastern european culture, and its functio nas bulwark against ottomans, which plc was able to match in military power Battle of Khoten(1621)(1673) for example.

Interest is compleatly subjective ,one can say like you challenging start of muscovy and its deveopemtn, but at the same time it can be said interesting developement of PLC political structure is more interesting then that.

My entire point is if metric of being tier 1 nation is its importance in this time peroid, then muscovy/russia doesnt qualify if we include PLC existence, did it loose its power , yes so did ottomans, castile, chinese(yuan,ming,qing).

Would you say Qing was more important nation in 1337-1836 peroid compared to Ming, its similar situation one gained its power at the cost of the other, it happened in around the same time, Qing achieved bigger borders, like Russia compared to plc, yet again was it more important in comparison to ming, despite occuring in shorter game time span,

I cant accept muscovy/russia being more important then poland/plc, without at least good argument for it, good argument isnt ignorign everything i say and saying russia is more important without giving any example as to why and going entirely on today times bias.

Btw i will repeatem myslef, itrs about commonwealth/polnad being more important state then muscovy/russia in 1337-1836 time frame, not whole of history. And if someone disagrees, then i would like to see them argue why, i know why people often think about russia as alwasy most important eastern european nation, due to most recent history, and dismisses commonwealth due to its partitions in 1792(that were btw done BY 3 great powers, i would like to see any country resist such thing), despite its power, and diplomatic cultural impact on region and whole o europe throughout entire peroid of eu5, I understand wanting russia to have content, i dont disagree with that, what i disagre is about them being decided as more imporant then commonwealth AGAIN in 1337-1836 peroid.

Again to this point i have not seen anyone argue why RUSSIA was more important then poland/commonwealth , just, look plc lost this war, plc declines in what in eu5 is end game, muscovy is fun, no one yet even attempet to argue why it was more IMPORTANT.
 
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The concept of Pomor outposts as presented here seems quite strange.

Pomor refers to an ethnic subgroup inhabiting the coasts of the White and Barenets Seas, whose traditional occupation is fishing. While Pomors did play a role in early Russian expansion to Siberia, as they sailed to the Gulf of Ob region and established fishing outposts there, their influence was limited to this specific region and fairly short-lived. Fittingly, the description of the advance and building makes no mention of Pomors or the northern Siberian region they were active in.

Most significant advances to Siberia were associated with the Russian government's desire to collect yasak (a form of tribute imposed on the indigenous Siberian population, mainly in the form of furs), which led to the establishment of a number of fortified outposts known as ostrogs. Ostrogs were mainly built and maintained by Cossacks in government service and served two functions: being an administrative center for collecting yasak as well as protecting Russian colonists from hostile actions of the local population. Thus, establishing an ostrog in a specific area was usually the first step towards securing Russian control over it. Though ostrogs were established in other regions, this term became closely associated with the colonization of Siberia, as many modern Siberian cities were built on the foundation of earlier ostrogs. This is what the description of advance and building seem to point to by mentioning Cossacks, gathering of fur and fish and fur trade. However, in this case one would expect these buildings to also provide some form of fortification.

In summary, if this building is intended to represent all Russian expansion to Siberia, its name paints a bizarre and ahistorical picture of Pomors as the driving force behind Russian colonization of Siberia, including deep continental regions nowhere near the places historically inhabited by Pomors. Thus, I suggest renaming the building to ostrog as well as giving it a defensive bonus and representing Cossacks employed for its maintenance.​
I agree. If anything, it should be a Novgorod building, used to improve the trade along the Arctic ocean coastline.
 
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such an ironic post coming from you, troll
You created a new account just to shittalk me. There is no irony in me calling you a troll. Now go away.
 
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You created a new account just to shittalk me. There is no irony in me calling you a troll. Now go away.
there you go thinking this is all about you. such vanity for someone to think an account created a couple months ago without a single post till yesterday was just to troll you... have you always been this delusional?

considering the post I first quoted, yes there is irony in you calling me a troll. I guess you just cant comprehend why...
 
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there you go thinking this is all about you. such vanity for someone to think an account created a couple months ago without a single post till yesterday was just to troll you... have you always been this delusional?

considering the post I first quoted, yes there is irony in you calling me a troll. I guess you just cant comprehend why...
You have 4 total comments. All 4 are replies to me. Shut up already you silly little clown.
 
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They literally decisively defeated russia, russai nnobility even wanted to crown polish king son as their tsar.
Was this attempt successful? Maybe you should mention, that there were two such attempts during 1605-1614, both supported by Poland, both claimants killed by russian nobility.

Btw absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Ignoring how nonsensical this statement is, it would be true for russia as well, in time frame of the game, russai was able to defeate poland in only 2 wars, arguably 1 at best, as during 1654 they lost one battle and plc had to divert their focus to sweden, after that they only achieved stalement with tired and devastated commonwealth, in 1792, they won only through betrayal of plc king Poniatowski, one battle that happened during the war was won by PLC and decisively so, yet Poniatowski (russian puppet) ordered army to stand down and surrendered to russia.
Well, if both countries have won relatively same amount of wars against each other, why Poland or PLC should be superior? Or you mean something different?

So assuming plc is weaker then russia as they didnt wage war agaisnt them is dishonest, would you say ulm was stronger then france as they never waged war???
Or that prussia was always stronger then france, as france fought prussia only once prussia before losing next war to them?
Have I mentioned something like this? No.

Also peroid of Russia being more important then PLC in European stage and as Eastenr European power is only about 28% of game span, that is in comparison of PLC(Poland Lithuania befoe 1569 even as that is just date of unification of both realms before that they have been in PU) even if we only start at 1569 time frame is similar to russian importance. Yet plc was important even before that being one of largest and most centralsied states in Europe, between 1300-1400 being among top 10 strongest nations in Europe, while at the same time muscovy was just gainging its strenght, between 1400-1500 it could be argued to be among top 3 biggest powers in Europe, with Ottomans, France and HRE among that number, while between 1500-1600 it was one of most populous states, Russia even while being few times larger during this time still had smaller population. Even after plc decline in 1700s it was only behind Britain, France, Russia, Austria, Prussia, in terms of power the counties we consdier abslute powerhouses, and its ability to fight was restriced mostly by being compleatly surroudned by its rivals. That is also the time when russia actually becomes stronger then PLC.

Peroid of Commonwealth and poland importance stretches between 1360-1700 which is about 65% of eu5 time frame, which even if we stretch Russian importance to happend from 1630s to 1836 it would be 40% and it is still less if we shorten peroid of plc importance to between 1380-1655(to swedish deluge) , 55% of time frame.
Can you explain me, what do you mean by importance? I understant that Poland, and after that PLC fought Ottomans, influenced HRE and other countries.

However, russian principalities stopped Mongol invasion into Europe. Not directly, however it was impossible for mongols to advance into Europe, while having rebellios states in the rear. And Moscovy has become a leader of these principalities, resulting in a unification of russian states over the timeline of the game. They were doing this already at the start of the game, and this changed the face of easter Europe during the timeline. During all this periond Moscovy and Russia were an important player in the Eastern Europe.

They didnt fight,why?

Why should poland invade russian territories, nothing really to gain, there was only 1 offesnive war done by plc agaisnt russia, and that was the one in times of troubles, otherwise every subsecquent war was russia invading plc during the time it was weakest, like after kings death thinking they could win without involvement of sweden or ottomans, they lost.

The point ist Muscovy/Russia weak or insignificant, it was insignificant as just one of russia principalities before rising to power, yet they were still weaker then then PLC, not beign able to beat PLC army even after swedish deluge greatly weakened it, where plc lost land in favour to russia only due ot their inability to decisively defeate cossacks.

And all of that is just military matters, diplomatically Russia was irrelevant in europe, serving only as conqeror in steppes, contrary to that plc was improtant player serving as bulwark agaisnt muscovy and ottomans, and events in PLC influenced dynasties and sitations in HRE, Sweden or Hungary, while Russiaw as isolated from european politics.
How unimportant was Moscovy if you mention "PLC serving as bulwark against Moscovy and Ottomans"? So they were such a great theat as the Ottomans?
Why during all that timeframe Lithuania and after that PLC tried to dispute borderland of Moscovy/Russia?
Why PLC tried to put polish puppet on the moscovian thone during two Dmitriads?

I can agree with you, that it was difficult to influense HRE politics, without having a border with them. However Moscovy and later Russia had a lot of conflicts with Sweden and Ottomans, and I am pretty sure, this ilfluenced that countries a lot.

While Muscovy was largely isolated from Renaissance and Enlightenment Europe, the Commonwealth was deeply connected to Western ideas. Poland was part of the Latin Christian world, used Latin in education and law, and had major universities like Kraków’s Jagiellonian University, founded in 1364, Russiad didnt even have university until 1755, and if we include religous learning 1687, but the school was theology focused and didnt teach anything else.
Fun fact, this uneducated Russia managed to crush PLC. Probably they didnt have educated people to lead armies, establish alliances and cities, it was just luck.

Thats true, that church palyed significant role in russian everyday life, and that western ideas were coldly met quite often. However, this havend weakend russian culture, and it was broadly accepted after opening the window to the west.
Also first russian university was established in 1724 in St. Petersburg.
Tinto Flavour literally states that importance of country in 1337-1836 is the metric, to which I disagree that muscovy russia was more important then PLC during that time between 1700s-1836 yes but before, no.

PLC impact on eastern european culture, and its functio nas bulwark against ottomans, which plc was able to match in military power Battle of Khoten(1621)(1673) for example.

Interest is compleatly subjective ,one can say like you challenging start of muscovy and its deveopemtn, but at the same time it can be said interesting developement of PLC political structure is more interesting then that.

My entire point is if metric of being tier 1 nation is its importance in this time peroid, then muscovy/russia doesnt qualify if we include PLC existence, did it loose its power , yes so did ottomans, castile, chinese(yuan,ming,qing).

Regarding metrics, I would say that other players can determine, which countries are more important. We can compare the amount of people playing Novgorod and Moscovy, versus Poland and Lithuania after release of the game, pretty sure there would be such kind of data from devs, about most played countries.

I cant accept muscovy/russia being more important then poland/plc
I am absolutely okey with that.
However, I do not agree that Moscovy or Russia were not important during all the timeframe of the game.
 
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