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Tinto Flavour #20 - 23rd of May 2025

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Tuesdays & Fridays in which we take a look at the content of Europa Universalis V!

Today we will be taking a look at the content of Muscovy, and its ‘successor state’, Russia, after Grand Prince Ivan III ‘the Great’ proclaimed himself ‘Sovereign of All Russia’. This is a special TF, because it’s the first one in which we show the content for one of the seven ‘Tier 1’ counties, those that we consider the most important in the 1337-1836 period, and thus, that have the most content in the game.

Let’s start taking a look at it, as usual:

The Grand Principality of Muscovy stands at a crossroads of political maneuvering, and economic troubles under the Tatar Yoke, and an ongoing power struggle among East Slavic principalities, each vying for supremacy within the fragmented Rus' territories. The Tatar invasion continues to cast a long shadow over the region and Muscovy, like many other Rus' principalities, remains a tributary to the formidable Golden Horde.

Guiding Muscovy through these complexities is Grand Prince Ivan Rurikovich, a leader keenly aware of the delicate balance required for survival under Tatar dominion. He has skillfully managed the principality's affairs through diplomatic initiatives and strategic alliances and now seeks to consolidate power and enhance Muscovy's standing within the Yoke, with aspirations to unite the Rus' land under one banner.

Country Selection.png

As usual, consider all UI, 2D and 3D art WIP.

Muscovy1.png

Muscovy2.png

This is the starting diplomatic situation of Muscovy:
Personal Unions.png

Muscovy starts in a Personal Union with a bunch of principalities, including Novgorod, which is a Republic that elects its rulers among those of other countries.

Tatar Yoke.png

This is the current starting state of the Tatar Yoke, with Muscovy being entitled as the ‘Grand Prince of Vladimir’ - or, in other words, the ‘tribute collector’ for the Tatars. We won’t talk about this feature today, but in the Tinto Flavour devoted to the Golden Horde.

These are some of the privileges that the Russian countries have available from the start:
Privilege Kormlenije.png

Privilege The Ryad.png

Priviliege Tysiatskii Office.png

Also, this starting Legal Code Policy:
Policy Russkaya Pravda.png

Here you have some of the advances available for Muscovy and Russia through the ages, as usual:
Advance Gatherers Tribute.png

Advance Pomestnoe.png

Advance Zasechnara.png

Advance Imperial Guard.png

And now let’s move into the narrative content. Muscovy has 109 Dynamic Historical Events available, while there are another 73 unlockable after having formed Russia, which makes for a total of 182 available DHEs - that’s what being a ‘Tier 1’ country means, in regards to content. Many of them will unlock very different types of other content assets, as you’ll see now:

Event Campaigns against Novgorod.png

This is an event that may trigger if Novgorod elects another ruler, as happened historically.

Kremlin.png

Kremlin2.png

If you build the Kremlin, there will be further events related to it.

Event Denga and Ruble.png


Event Prikazi.png

Reform Prikazi.png


Event Book of Census.png

Reform Razriadnyi.png


Event Sophia Komnenos.png

ReformByzantine Court Ceremonies.png

If Byzantium falls, and some other conditions are met, you might be able to marry a Greek princess, and proclaim your country as the ‘Third Rome’.

If you expand your country, you might be able to form Russia at a certain point:
Form Russia.png

Russian Empire.png

Russian Empire2.png

The Russian Principalities account for approximately 460 locations, so you need to conquer some more from the Golden Horde to get to the 508 required. I forced it through the console to show it to you, but one of our QA testers made a recent run, and he was able to form it around 1500, OOC.

When the Age of Reformation starts, there will be this advance available for the Russian countries:
Siberian Frontier1.png

That unlocks:
Pomor Outpost.png

Settle the Frontier.png

It’s also possible for a unique disaster to trigger, the Time of Troubles:
Time of Troubles1.png

Time of Troubles2.png

Time of Troubles3.png

Time of Troubles4.png

Time of Troubles5.png

Time of Troubles has many different events happening, on top of the DHEs:

If you overcome it, there’s even more late-game content, of course:

Reform Collegium.png


Reform Nakaz.png


Reform Speransky.png


Event Bolshoi.png

Bolsoi Theater.png

… And much more, but that’s all for today! As today is Friday, this will be the schedule for next week:
  • Monday -> Tinto Flavour about Venice and Genoa
  • Tuesday -> Tinto Flavour about Serbia and Georgia
  • Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about the Orthodox and Miaphysite religions
  • Thursday -> Third ‘Behind the Scenes’ video!
  • Friday -> Tinto Flavour about the Roman Empire, AKA Byzantium
And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
 
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It makes no sense that Ruthenians wouldn't call themselves Russians but still claim the anachronistic "Kievan Rus"
My (limited) knowledge was that they did call themselves "Russians", I mean that's what Ruthenian means. They were just a completely different Russia than those that lived to the north. Also I believe the use of the word Ukraine to describe these people dates back to before the start date, so just using that is a possibility.
 
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My (limited) knowledge was that they did call themselves "Russians", I mean that's what Ruthenian means. They were just a completely different Russia than those that lived to the north. Also I believe the use of the word Ukraine to describe these people dates back to before the start date, so just using that is a possibility.
I don't think Ukraine should apply to the formable:
"Ukraina appears in the Hypatian Codex of c. 1425 under the year 1187 in reference to a part of the territory of Kievan Rus'."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine

In Ukarine's own wiki it's translated as "borderland" (in relation to Kievan Rus), which wouldn't make sense as a name of a formable greater empire, derived for Kievan Rus. :)
 
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It makes no sense that Ruthenians wouldn't call themselves Russians but still claim the anachronistic "Kievan Rus"
Duchy of Moscow at the time separated itself enough from the rest of Rus' principalities. Game takes place during the rule of Ivan Kalita, well-known for being utterly submitted to Golden Horde. Cultural differences between Horde and Kalita's duchy were so much smaller than between Moscow and the rest of the Rus', so it doesn't make sense for them to have the same formable.
 
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Duchy of Moscow at the time separated itself enough from the rest of Rus' principalities. Game takes place during the rule of Ivan Kalita, well-known for being utterly submitted to Golden Horde. Cultural differences between Horde and Kalita's duchy were so much smaller than between Moscow and the rest of the Rus', so it doesn't make sense for them to have the same formable.
Ok, so just because Moscow "separated itself" (whatever that means) and its current ruler is a hordaboo, a resurgent Kiev (or Minsk) is forbidden from ever forming "Russia" even after defeating them? Regardless of them calling themselves Russian? Makes 0 sense. A "Kievan Rus" empire stretching to Vladivostok would look incredibly bad.

If Kiev unifies the lands of old rus and defeats the Horde, there should be nothing preventing them from forming Russia.
My (limited) knowledge was that they did call themselves "Russians", I mean that's what Ruthenian means. They were just a completely different Russia than those that lived to the north. Also I believe the use of the word Ukraine to describe these people dates back to before the start date, so just using that is a possibility.
(the) Ukraine used to mean "the borderlands" back then, which is where to western flank of the Rus used to be.
 
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Also, the Mongol conquest was exactly a century back, in 1237. The divergence of language and customs hadn't still taken full shape to the population as a whole, regardless of who rules the Northern part of Russia/Muscovy.
 
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Ok, so just because Moscow "separated itself" (whatever that means) and its current ruler is a hordaboo, a resurgent Kiev (or Minsk) is forbidden from ever forming "Russia" even after defeating them? Regardless of them calling themselves Russian? Makes 0 sense. A "Kievan Rus" empire stretching to Vladivostok would look incredibly bad.

If Kiev unifies the lands of old rus and defeats the Horde, there should be nothing preventing them from forming Russia.

(the) Ukraine used to mean "the borderlands" back then, which is where to western flank of the Rus used to be.
Moscow separated iself with submission to Horde. Neither of nobility or the Duke wanted to free themselves and their people from Tatar Yoke. More of, they supported the oppressors when things came to multiple rebellions against it. Southern folk of Rus' was forged spirit of disobedience. Can you say that on the others?

Btw i don't support the idea of "Kievan Rus" formable. It's anachronistic.

I'd like some "Lechina Tsardom" or "Wendia", or maybe more simple "Tsardom of Rus".

Also, the Mongol conquest was exactly a century back, in 1237. The divergence of language and customs hadn't still taken full shape to the population as a whole, regardless of who rules the Northern part of Russia/Muscovy.
One Slavic nation concept was founded later in Russian Empire. Back in time there was no monolithic identity among principalities.
 
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(the) Ukraine used to mean "the borderlands" back then, which is where to western flank of the Rus used to be.
Honestly I prefer the translation "frontier". Also I'm pretty sure that they were the southern flank of the Rus? To the west were more Slavs, it wouldn't make sense to have a place defied by being the border with the west Slavic tribes, especially in contrast to the border with the hordes.

And perhaps they didn't, I wouldn't know, but as a (western) American you can totally have a people and nation define themselves as frontiersmen.
 
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@Pavía there are a lot of nonsense going on in the thread, so wanted to summarize some good ideas and good questions that dont have answers yet

1) Rename "Preobrazhensky Semenovsky Imperial Guard" to "Preobrazhensky and Semenovsky Imperial Guard Regiments"


2)Cossack Hosts in Service of the Empire (Potentially addressed in Ruthenia Content, but considering how much of Cossack history is related to Russia, russian specific stuff should be present):

a) "The cossacks are an interesting case. Perhaps each host should be represented as an army-based country? First the Don and Zaporoshian hosts spawn by themselves, and if you conquer or vassalize them you can both use their armies (as quasi-mercs?) and can spawn new hosts to colonize or settle newly conquered steppe land."

b) "Will there be content for Cossack Hosts and establishing them to advance imperial control? Areas like southern mountain borders with Georgia and Far East should need them. Its different from more civilian settlement focused Siberian Frontier event shown. Host should have different "focuses" assigned: Settlement and providing military (Kuban/East Ukraine region), Control of Locals/Border (Caucasus), trade and exploration (Far East)"


3) Russian specific levy: "The streltsy should be linked to a special "building" (a streletskaya sloboda) that employs peasants and lets you raise them as a better levy. The same should apply to pushkari (except you raise them as artillery)."


4) "To echo the rest of the feedback - Tsardom and Empire really should be two different Tier 3 and Tier 4 formables. This solves the issue of Inflation of titles that we see sometimes in PDX games. Tier 3 really should be the goal for most within first 200 years, outside of crazy speed runner/min maxers.

This also would reflect how the state behaved better. Until Peter the Great opportunities for Non-Slavs and Non-Orthodox were very limited. Once it became an Empire there was significantly more acceptance of new ideas and new people (not in every way).

This would create a much more natural "ramp" within the region. Of Tier 1 (Klin as an example), Tier 2 (Muscovy and Novgorod) , Tier 3 formable (Tsardom of Muscovy) , Tier 4 (Russian Empire) "


5) Will there be content about foreigners moving into Russia for opportunities? This happened a lot historically as it was an opportunity for advancement and wealth due to rapid expansion of the Empire. There are multiple categories:

a. Peasants running away from Poland/Lithuania (were crucial in settlement of some territories and creation of Cossack hosts)
b. German Settlements (considering this happened historically Russia should be excluded from Catholic only requirements)
c. Foreign Nobility, especially German was invited to Russia. This should give progress towards reform/technology as this was very common way for Empire to get education elite and scientists while having bad education system.

Considering this practice really solves the issue of a country having conservative/traditionalist views on education/religion while pushing back and winning against enlightened states, i think it makes sense for Russia to have as a unique action (that will help with research/income/military) it can take at the cost of the nobility happiness (who didnt like foreigners taking their jobs) and even some peasant happiness. It will allow the player to balance the amount of these foreign invitees they can have vs the stability of the state.
This will also help the institution/technology spread issue, as historically Russia went through multiple radical jumps vs slow and steady change more common in rest of Europe


6) "Pomor outpost looks like it will need some adjustment: specifically the 1000 laborers. The locations in question will not be high in pop EVER and as such putting half or a third of the population into a +5% econboost with some trade addon is, well, counterproductive.
100, 200 or at most 300 pops. Im assuming most locations will have 1000 to 2000 and eventually maybe 5k in some centuries?
Further some kind of colonial growth factor might be useful?"


7) "The concept of Pomor outposts as presented here seems quite strange.

Pomor refers to an ethnic subgroup inhabiting the coasts of the White and Barenets Seas, whose traditional occupation is fishing. While Pomors did play a role in early Russian expansion to Siberia, as they sailed to the Gulf of Ob region and established fishing outposts there, their influence was limited to this specific region and fairly short-lived. Fittingly, the description of the advance and building makes no mention of Pomors or the northern Siberian region they were active in.

Most significant advances to Siberia were associated with the Russian government's desire to collect yasak (a form of tribute imposed on the indigenous Siberian population, mainly in the form of furs), which led to the establishment of a number of fortified outposts known as ostrogs. Ostrogs were mainly built and maintained by Cossacks in government service and served two functions: being an administrative center for collecting yasak as well as protecting Russian colonists from hostile actions of the local population. Thus, establishing an ostrog in a specific area was usually the first step towards securing Russian control over it. Though ostrogs were established in other regions, this term became closely associated with the colonization of Siberia, as many modern Siberian cities were built on the foundation of earlier ostrogs. This is what the description of advance and building seem to point to by mentioning Cossacks, gathering of fur and fish and fur trade. However, in this case one would expect these buildings to also provide some form of fortification.

In summary, if this building is intended to represent all Russian expansion to Siberia, its name paints a bizarre and ahistorical picture of Pomors as the driving force behind Russian colonization of Siberia, including deep continental regions nowhere near the places historically inhabited by Pomors. Thus, I suggest renaming the building to ostrog as well as giving it a defensive bonus and representing Cossacks employed for its maintenance."
 
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Honestly I prefer the translation "frontier". Also I'm pretty sure that they were the southern flank of the Rus? To the west were more Slavs, it wouldn't make sense to have a place defied by being the border with the west Slavic tribes, especially in contrast to the border with the hordes.

And perhaps they didn't, I wouldn't know, but as a (western) American you can totally have a people and nation define themselves as frontiersmen.
Similarly, Krajina was used in the Balkans and Mark in Germany
 
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That would be like reforming the Caliphate as Spain, why would you do that?
You can't really compare those two. Horde to Rus' was more like Rome to his subjects, destructive yet culturally valuable. A great share of Russian institutions was taken thanks to cultural exchange between mongols and slavs. While in Kyiv and Novgorod reigned democratic government the eastern duchies became autocratic.
 
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You can't really compare those two. Horde to Rus' was more like Rome to his subjects, destructive yet culturally valuable.
Are you insinuating that the Caliphate wasn't destructive or culturally valuable to Iberia? I'm not sure which one is a worse take.
A great share of Russian institutions was taken thanks to cultural exchange between mongols and slavs.
Such as?... Because to my knowledge almost all Russian institutions have their origins either in pre-tatar yoke or post tatar yoke times.
If there was significant cultural exchange between mongols and slavs you would expect the Black Death to arrive in Russia quicker than in Italy, but the opposite happened historically. You would also expect the religion to change, like how Rome turned most of its' subjects from pagan to christian, but again, the opposite happened.
The only significant "cultural exchange" I can think of between mongols and slavs during this time period is mongols sacking Russian cities, desecrating orthodox churches and enslaving woodworkers, icon painters and other artisans. The only significant things that Russian culture got from the tatar yoke is some loanwords of turkic origin and dumplings.
While in Kyiv and Novgorod reigned democratic government the eastern duchies became autocratic.
That is, unfortunately, a myth. Novgorod was just as despotic and authoritarian as the other Russian principalities despite nominally being a republic.
And Kyiv wasn't even independent after or during the tatar yoke, what possible democracy in the XIV century are you talking about?
 
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It's a bit more complicated. "The Kremlin" is actually a 3 different fortresses.
Yeah, probably the best way to handle it is to have several buildings:
  1. Generic fortress, representing original wooden Kremlin.
  2. White Kremlin, representing original one built in 1366—1368.
  3. Red Kremlin, representing brick one built in 1482—1495.
  4. Gothic towers Kremlin, representing new tower roofs built in 1680s. Also around this time Kremlin was painted white, which can be represented. I think this upgrade can give some prestige modifier, because this upgrade had no defensive meaning and at this point Kremlin had little defensive use.
Also, fun fact, today Kremlin is painted red. I guess they do it to make sure it looks clean without signs of wear. Can't say when it started, but I would guess that at least after WW2 for sure, because Kremlin was camouflaged to protect it from bombing, and painting it over would be easier than scraping paint.
 
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