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Tinto Talks #65 - 28th of May 2025

Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesdays where we talk about Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will discuss the mechanics of Eastern Christianity religions. We have grouped them into three main religions: Orthodoxy, Miaphysitism, and Nestorianism. So, let’s start without further ado.



Orthodoxy

This is the overview of the Orthodox religion:
Orthodoxy Tooltip.jpg

This tooltip needs some more love, as we’re not showing all the mechanics of the religion. That’s because, as usual, please consider all UI, 2D and 3D art WIP.

This is the country panel of the religion:
Orthodoxy Panel.jpg

Countries of Orthodox religion in Autocephalous Patriarchates, which are a type of IO:
Autocephalous Patriarchates5.jpg

Autocephalous Patriarchates2.jpg

Autocephalous Patriarchates1.jpg

Autocephalous Patriarchates3.jpg

I’m taking here the Autocephalous Patriarchate of Constantinople, which has the custom name of ‘Ecumenical Patriarchate’, as an example.

And here you have the existing Orthodox Patriarchates in 1337:
Autocephalous Patriarchates4.jpg

Countries can Join an Autocephalous Patriarchate, if they’ve just converted to Orthodoxy; or, when they already belong to one, they can Change to a different one, or Create a new one:
Autocephalous Patriarchates Join.jpg

Autocephalous Patriarchates Change.jpg

Autocephalous Patriarchates Create.jpg

The Seat of an Autocephalous Patriarchates defines the Leader of this IO, which unlocks additional effects and actions:
Seat1.jpg

Seat2.jpg

Autocephalous Patriarchates Relocate.jpg

There are also some other blocks in the Autocephalous Patriarchate, as its Saints:
Saints.jpg

And Holy Sites:
Holy Sites.jpg

The main currency of the religion is Religious Influence, which already appeared in the Catholic TT:
Religious Influence1.jpg

Religious Influence2.jpg

You can do a few things with your Religious Influence. First, you can canonize a former ruler, making him a Saint:
Saints1.jpg

Saints2.jpg

Saints3.jpg

The benefits you get from the canonization scale with the ruler stats. So better to make sure that you want to canonize a truly memorable former ruler!

You can also call for a Synod in your country:
Synod.jpg

Synod2.jpg

Synod3.jpg

Synod4.jpg

Finally, there’s a unique type of work of art, Icons:
Icons3.jpg

These icons not only give a modifier to the location where they are, but also can be used in a ‘Periphora’ to another location:
Periphora.jpg

Periphora2.jpg



Miaphysitism

Miaphysitism is similar to Orthodoxy, with some differences. Here is the overview of the religion itself:
miaphysitism.png

Same as Orthodoxy, it also has the mechanics of Canonization and Autocephalous Patriarchates, with these ones being the Patriarchates present at start:
miaphysite patriarchates.png

However, most of these are actually empty due to being occupied by Muslim countries, with only Ethiopia remaining as part of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Alexandria and the Armenian patriarchate as the only one containing more than one country.
armenian patriarchate.png

An integral part of each the Eastern Christians and their Patriarchates are their Tenets, defined in a series of laws:
Tenets1.jpg

Tenets2.jpg

The ‘Nature’ tenet is a hard–locked IO Law, that depends on each Religion:
Tenets3.jpg

composite nature.png

These Tenets can be changed, and there are multiple possibilites in each Law:
Tenets4.jpg



Nestorianism

There is no country having Nestorianism as its state religion at game start, but the religion is nonetheless still quite spread in some areas. Here is an overview of it:
nestorianism.png

nestorianism panel.png

Nestorianism also has its own holy sites:
nestorianism holy sites.png

And also its specific definition of the nature of Christ:
separate nature.png

A final remark on a common flavor for all these religions. First, they have their unique flavor monasteries:
orthodox monastery.png

miaphysite monastery.png

The modifiers are WIP, we want to make them somewhat different.

There's a Law in which you can define the policy of the relationship between the state and the religion:
Patriarchate Law.jpg

And that’s all for today! Tomorrow is Thursday, which means that we will publish a new ‘Behind the Scenes’ video, on Friday, we will discuss the Byzantine Empire in Tinto Flavour, and next Wednesday's Tinto Talks will be about Islam.

And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
 
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There's flavor content about mending the Schism in both ways - Roman Catholicism triumphant in Constantinople, and Greek Orthodoxy triumphant in Rome.
What happens to the Reformation if you mend the schism before then? Does it not fire or can it fire in Orthodox countries?
 
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No, they have Church Aspects instead.
I’m not sure church aspects work as well as this system. Notably a lot of aspects, such as translated bibles and adult baptism, really ought to be locked for some religions (you can’t be a Lutheran and not translate bibles) and unlocked for others (Anglecian needs to choose to adopt English language bibles). The system just seems better for modeling variable policies, while the church aspects have a lot of baggage with how wide the gap between some aspects are in terms of significance, with the game treating them as if equal importance. (again, adult baptisms and translated bibles are massive things which qualify or disqualify membership of a major denomination, vs war sermons which are a flavorful tidbit by comparison.)
 
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Take into account that APs are IOs, and thus, operate with Countries; so it's not possible to have a 1:1 copy of the historical eclesiastical organization, in our game, it is just an (accurate) approximation.

View attachment 1308317
How will the Ottoman conquest of Byzantines will work with the Patriarchate of Constantinople? Surely it will not be destroyed as Ottomans definitely did not and it still exists today.
Is there gonna be an event to keep it around or something?
 
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I'm excited for Miaphysitism in Nubia/Sudan, especially with high Miaphysite pops in Alodia (A feudal kingdom not a tribal entity) and Al Abwab. Golden opportunity to represent Nubian culture and important buildings along with all the eastern Christian architecture.

Also some unique buildings locations in Miaphysite Nubia:


ImportantLocationsInSudan.png
miaphysitism.png



Hopefully some interesting Christian flavor in Africa
 
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You also have to take into account that we are localizing the game to several languages, and not all have differential wording for 'Eastern' and 'Oriental'.

We are trying to make this game as historically accurate as possible, but sometimes we need to follow a more functional approach.
1. If you want it to be historical Geogria and Bulgria still are apart Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople. Constantinople isnt the leader. They are many Patriach's and so is Alexandria, Jerusalum, Antoich and in this case in 1337 Bulgria and Geogria too.

2. I think you should show more unity at the highest levels of goverance while the lower levels of the chruch histrocally were largely independent yet worked togther.

Of course Alexandria, Jerusalum and Antoich have fallen to islam but thats besides the case.
 
Why have you butchered the names of old Russian Grand Princes, line Saint Vladimir?
Vladimir is a modern Russian version that came from the Church Slavonic.
In Old East Slavic/Old Russian the name was Volodimer/Volodimir (Володимѣръ) and Ukrainian Volodymyr comes from the Old East Slavic and Ruthenian languages.

It can be clearly seen from multiple old maps of Russia with modern-day city of Vladimir written as Volodimir:
IMG_1096.jpeg
IMG_1095.jpeg
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Even this fact is enough. If something was butchered, that weren’t the names.
Moreover, those Kyivan princes are tied to the Ruthenian culture and the respective dialect, so, everything is perfectly fine with the names.
 
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As there are so many Rurikovich Saints, more saints should be added to other prominent Orthodox countries - sanctification was VERY common in Orthodoxy, with all Serbian Nemanjić rulers bar Dušan being saints, which is why they're called the 'Holy Dynasty' in Serbia.

The most notable ones that need to be added are Stefan Nemanja (their founder, later became a monk on Athos and is an important saint) and his son Saint Sava (the founder of the autonomous Serbian church and the most important saint in Serbia)


Others include Stefan the First Crowned (also addicted and became a monk shortly before death), his sons Radoslav (spent much of his life as a monk) and Uroš, as well as Uroš's sons Dragutin (also spent much of his later life as a monk) and Milutin (a famed monastery builder, with over 40 significant ones built)

I remember from the streams that Peć becomes a Holy Site when the Patriarchate is founded, so I believe that Žiča should have a minor Holy Site representing Žiča and Studenica, seats of the church and already present as artworks

Another minor Holy Site could be represented in Gradac location, the Ovčar Kablar gorge, one of the two Serbian regions compared to Mount Athos due to its density of monasteries, starting from the early 14th century

The other (and more famous one) is Fruška Gora, which can be founded by event if Serbia acquires Syrmia or falls to the Turks.

Other prominent Orthodox Holy Sites in the Balkans include Rila in Bulgaria (already present in 1337 and later expanded), Ohrid (very prominent religious center for Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs), Meteora (founded a few decades after 1337) and much later Ostrog and Cetinje in Montenegro.
You may now add “Professional Serbian” to your forum bio.
 
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How will the Ottoman conquest of Byzantines will work with the Patriarchate of Constantinople? Surely it will not be destroyed as Ottomans definitely did not and it still exists today.
Is there gonna be an event to keep it around or something?
Somebody asked:
How does the game intend to represent extraterritorial patriarchates such as Antioch and Jerusalem?
And Pavia answered:
Through holy sites, they need a 'country' to exist as an IO.
post

This might be how they will handle patriarchate of Constantinople.
 
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How would one go about destroying another Autocephalous Patriarchate, for example if the Eastern Romans conquer Bulgaria would their IO be destroyed or would someone else take leadership of it
 
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Because the characters that we have in this game are centered around the country court - the rulers and their family; some courtiers employable as cabinet members, generals, admirals, and explorers; and artists. The people who would usually be considered for canonization are scarcely present in our game, usually as courtiers or iconographers; thus, we're focusing the gameplay of the mechanic around ruler canonization.
Can we change this in a mod?
 
1. Serbian church was autocephalous, it just wasn't patriarchate until 1346
2. Is Gregory Palamas represented?
3. What exactly are these tenets supposed to represent, because, to me, rejecting tenets of essence and person seem to me as becoming non christian
 
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Take into account that APs are IOs, and thus, operate with Countries; so it's not possible to have a 1:1 copy of the historical eclesiastical organization, in our game, it is just an (accurate) approximation.

View attachment 1308317
Since there was a lot of christian minorities in the muslim countries, who would belong to one of the existing patriarchates, shouldn't they belong to set patriachate, if those countries convert to orthodox etc or become an independent country? Or is it too clunky game play-wise
 
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Would Paradox be willing to consider my "Ancients" DLC for the Orthodox faith? I'll take 20%, actually, scrap that, just give me the game early. (Please?)
1000043073.png

Introducing, the "Ancients" DLC! For just €25, the Eastern Roman Empire gets some new flavour in the form of a national advance that allows you to summon the Greek God, Zeus. Use Zeus to destroy all Ottoman troops in exchange for 100 Patriarch Authority with his lightning strike! We hope this allows all Byzantium/ERE players to spice up their campaigns in a way that is historically accurate and totally balanced!

Bonus: Sign up for our newsletter to unlock our "Theodosian walls" monument on campaign start, these allow for a level 9 fort that has no upkeep, making for a slightly easier start!
 
Right off the bat they get the orthodox bonuses wrong, it should be -50% max literacy rather than +5% for realisms sake so the actual literacy rate discrepancies between denominational lines historically would evolve dynamically in-game.
 
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Finally, Finally Agio Oros is a holy site. And i should be grateful, and i am but come on man, why wasn't it in an earlier game, why isnt it still in CK3, it was always a pet peeve of mine.
 
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