Chinese-flavored fantasy materials and research.

[Sithodox2286]

How would you approach Elves in China? Especially if we say they do ultimately stem from the "west", whatever that means in universe.

Elves are overdone, though I'm also a lifetime LOTR fan buying all the hard covers. Based on how they are potraited in myth and folklore, Elves may be put as a sub-race of fairies (Yosei, Yaojing,......). The latter is more common (which means immersive) in cultures and also well-known. The two are more often asscociated anyway, in many games, fantasies, tv-series, etc...

On the other hand, as Eldars likely the representation of culures/magics related with nature + strong fighters + friends of animals, I think they fit the stereotype of Steppe Nomads.

Chinese elves can be migerated tribes spin-off from where they originated in the west. As elven history (in most designs) longer than human and always have some Luddite characteristics, it isn't a surprice to see some of their kinds are technologically less advance. War-like elves could be those had to fight with southern human empire for space and pride (they're likely be pushed to the "steppes" by ancient human advances). Peaceful tribes can be those live near eastern forest lands and have been communicated with Chiense "Alchemists/Cultivators". In-turn, their longevity inspired the eastern people to search for "Immortality".

Come to think of it, there can well-be elves living inside a fantasy celetial empire, India, Japan, Korea and beyond. Posing themselves as "Immortals (仙人)" or hindu/buddism related term "Rishi". They and their "clans" could be those who leading cults and faith that are tolerated by imperial officials (or their fantasy counterpart), behaving like monastic groups of human culture. As those groups/cults are considered somewhat masters of some techniques, and often liked by rural people while living near nature or great mountains/lakes/river or etc. Which also fits the description for elves.

The identity could flip, which is how historically jurchen tribes built their Jin and Qing empires.

Population-wise, nomadis aren't exactly known for population anyway. Elven nomads could even make more sense as elves are potraited mostly as a race stronger and more resilient than human. These advantages make their thrive in hostile steppe enviroment making even more sense.

With Nomadic elven occupying the steppe regions, the Animal-people above could be assigned to the south. Occupying locations with culture and terrain resembles the southeastern asia, interact with fantasy India, China and local human cultures. Some may travel to fantasy Japan and Korea and settle there.

 

[Azgabeth]

I don’t have much to contribute.

Just please, for all the westerners. Don’t just use the 4 beasts and qilin.

Use some cool and obscure stuff like the Kun Peng

 

[zeruosi]

Now let's discuss the naming conventions for countries and regions (I only noticed this after seeing recent tags related to Yanshen).

First, avoid arbitrarily adding the modifier "Great" (大)—especially when your fantasy China is relatively small in size. Historically, the term "Great" was used because China was the undisputed core of East Asia: the strongest militarily, the most populous, and the largest in territory. In other words, it was the biggest kid on the block, so the modifier "Great" was justified.

If your setting is a smaller region—say, just a small island or a minor basin surrounded by much larger powers—do not give it the "Great" prefix.

Naming Conventions for Countries​

If your setting is primarily Han Chinese in flavor, single-syllable names should be the default, with double-syllable names used sparingly. For the unified state's title, stick to single-syllable names unless your setting is near modern times and heavily influenced by the West.

Most single-syllable names are tied to ancient states (e.g., Qin, Qi, Lu, Wei, Shu, Yan), which were originally regional designations. This is mainly for temporal consistency. As for character selection, you can be flexible, but avoid using characters with derogatory or discriminatory connotations—unless the region in question was historically considered barbarian territory.

Double-syllable names are often linked to county or regional designations, such as "Prince of Jingjiang" (靖江王) and "Prince of Yanping" (延平王), which originated from Jingjiang Commandery and Yanping Commandery, respectively. However, double-syllable names were typically associated with "junwang" (郡王, lesser princes) rather than "qinwang" (亲王, full princes). In European terms, these would be duchies. There are exceptions—like the Prince of Jingjiang, whose status was nearly equivalent to a full prince, making his domain more like a grand duchy.

Additionally, some titles carried purely auspicious meanings, such as "Prince of Fu" (福王) and "Prince of Gu" (谷王). As before, single-syllable names denote "qinwang" (kingdom-level), while double-syllable names denote "junwang" (duchy-level).

For the unified state's title, you can use a "qinwang"-level designation or pick a grand-sounding character (e.g., Qian 乾, Yong 雍). Avoid overly common characters like "Liang" (亮)—(another rant about Yanshen).

First-Tier Administrative Divisions​

If you want an ancient feel, use the suffix "zhou" (州)—this was how Yu the Great first divided the land into the Nine Provinces (九州), later expanded to Thirteen Provinces (十三州) in the Han Dynasty.

For a more medieval flavor, "lu" (路) or "dao" (道) are good choices, as seen in the Tang and Song Dynasties. If you want a more modern touch, "sheng" (省) is appropriate, as used in the Yuan and Qing Dynasties. (Ignore the Ming Dynasty’s first-tier divisions—Zhu Yuanzhang was just an illiterate peasant farmer!)

Important: Do not use "zhou" or any other first-tier division name as the suffix for your entire fantasy China. If you must, use "zhou" + a number (e.g., "Nine Zhou") to indicate multiple regions. For example, "Nine Zhou" could serve as a synonym for "China" or "the world"—but only if your setting is large. If your China is small, using such a grand suffix would be absurd.

If your fantasy China is small, use second-tier divisions instead. For an ancient feel, "jun" (郡) works; for a slightly later period, "fu" (府) is better. There are also cases where first-tier divisions were downgraded—though this usually applies to specific cities rather than entire regions (e.g., Guangzhou).

If your China is very small—say, just a single island—then you’ll need third-tier or even fourth-tier divisions. Third-tier divisions are stable and always "xian" (县, county). Fourth-tier divisions, being on the fringes of imperial control, can have more flexible suffixes, but "town," "city," or similar terms are recommended.

For fifth-tier divisions (if anyone is detailing things to this extent), use "temple," "village," "hamlet," "tower," "pagoda," "pavilion," "post station," "garrison," "fortified camp," "stockade" as suffixes.

Each of these suffixes carries specific connotations:

• Village (村): A natural settlement formed by population clusters.
• Hamlet (庄): A settlement formed due to government or merchant land purchases.
• Tower (楼): A secular tall structure whose name became generalized.
• Temple/Pagoda (庙/塔): Areas where religious gatherings led to naming conventions.
• Garrison/Fort (营/卫): Settlements derived from military camps.
• Stockade (寨): Bandit strongholds turned settlements.
• Post Station (驿): Nodes in the national communication network.
• Pavilion (亭): Areas known for scenic beauty.

 

[zeruosi]

Here's the post I previously wrote about Chinese geography, which you can use as a reference.

Now, regarding geography—I personally subscribe to geographic determinism, so I believe geography shapes everything. If your setting doesn’t involve magic or gods playing an overwhelmingly dominant role, it’s best to base your geography on real-world China.

That means a relatively isolated landmass with vast inland expanses. Keep in mind that China’s regions are extremely diverse—religions, languages, cultures, customs, and ethnic compositions vary drastically, and it boasts nearly every type of terrain and climate found on Earth, except for fjords and Mediterranean climates.

So, my personal advice is: if you don’t have extensive knowledge, don’t try to model your entire fantasy China on the real thing. Otherwise, you’ll likely end up with something overly broad, vague, or even completely distorted. For most people, using one or two provinces as prototypes is a much more manageable approach.

If you’re designing an ancient and powerful China, a central core plain is essential—but it shouldn’t cover everything. Otherwise, it might resemble a fantasy India more than a fantasy China. Surrounding this plain should be multiple mountain ranges or deserts, which serve not only as natural defenses but also as barriers to prevent this "leviathan" from expanding unchecked. The interior should have plenty of hills and small mountainous regions, though these shouldn’t encroach on the core plain’s expanse. There should be one or two major rivers to facilitate internal communication.

A small inland sea or large lake is acceptable, but don’t let it dominate too much of the map—otherwise, storm surges could become a problem. Under a monsoon climate, an expanded ocean area often leads to devastating storm tides and floods.

A river like the Yellow River isn’t strictly necessary, but if you want that authentic flavor, its absence might feel like a missed opportunity.

When dividing regions, it’s best to follow your mountain ranges as natural boundaries—but not rigidly, because historical dynasties often split key areas across provinces to prevent easy political consolidation. For example, Hanzhong was carved out of Sichuan and assigned to Shaanxi.

If you want to depict the age-old struggle between agrarian and nomadic peoples, the Great Wall is indispensable. However, the Wall’s construction varied drastically across regions. Near the core plains, it was primarily stone and brick, built along mountain ridges. In the arid northwest, it was made of rammed earth mixed with straw—a simple but sturdy material, constructed in the deserts north of oases.

Remember, the Great Wall wasn’t just a single wall. It typically included fortresses, passes, nearby cities and water sources, and a network of watchtowers. So crossing it was a formidable challenge. Of course, if your Wall is more like the Warhammer Fantasy version of Cathay or the Game of Thrones Wall (thousands of feet tall), you can skip the extra defensive details.

Climate​

The climate should be predominantly monsoonal. The northwest can incorporate plateau/highland climates and continental arid zones. Generally, fantasy China should be placed in the eastern part of the continent—since, on Earth, monsoons primarily affect eastern landmasses. If your planet rotates in the opposite direction, you can reverse this.

If your world has a sideways rotation or is tidally locked? Frankly, that’s beyond my ability to envision.

Agriculture​

For an ancient feel, drier regions should focus on millet and foxtail millet, while wetter areas absolutely require rice. But rice cultivation isn’t exclusive to the south—northern China also has rice paddies. If you want to take an easy route, the entire core plain can be rice fields.

Now, if your fantasy China is small—and let’s be honest, such a setting creates strange implications. Given China’s historical influence, most of East Asia, all of Southeast Asia, the Eastern Steppe, parts of India and Persia, and even a slice of Europe were affected by Chinese civilization.

If you design a tiny (or even very small) fantasy China, you must account for uninfluenced Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Southeast Asia, and nomadic empires. This creates a cascade of knock-on effects, making it nearly impossible for most people to flesh out their world without it feeling disjointed or cobbled together.

Still, here are some suggestions:

• Island version: Model after Hainan or Taiwan—mountainous interiors surrounded by sea, trade-focused with some agriculture, and room for other races in the highlands.
• Basin version: Reference Sichuan or the Guanzhong Plain—enclosed by mountains, defensible, with internal plains. A major river isn’t strictly necessary due to the small size.
• Hilly/mountainous version: Look to Yunnan, Guizhou, and Fujian—few plains, underdeveloped agriculture, fragmented cultures/languages. Coastal areas (like Fujian) can be trade hubs, while inland regions might be shrouded in mysticism, with strong practitioner or religious influences and many minority groups.

If you go with a plain-only version… well, that’s a disaster waiting to happen. Either this China expands ruthlessly to its geographic limits, or it gets destroyed and vanishes. Unless you rely on divine or magical intervention…

 

[zeruosi]

I don’t have much to contribute.

Just please, for all the westerners. Don’t just use the 4 beasts and qilin.

Use some cool and obscure stuff like the Kun Peng

The Kunpeng is indeed a great choice—I'll incorporate it when I create some primordial gods and mythical beasts.

 

[zeruosi]

Finally, we've reached the chapter on fantastic creatures. Beyond the famous Qilin and the Four Sacred Beasts, China is home to a vast array of mythical beings.

First, let's introduce the counterparts to the Four Sacred Beasts—the Four Fiends:

Hundun (Chaos), Qiongqi (Violence), Taotie (Gluttony), and Taowu (Chaos Beast).

​

Hundun (Chaos)​

​

Descriptions of Hundun vary across records, but its status differs significantly:

In some accounts, Hundun is the Central Heavenly Emperor, one of the primordial deities representing the original state of chaos—akin to Khaos (Χάος) in Greek mythology.
As described in Zhuangzi·Ying Di Wang: "The Emperor of the South Sea was named Shu, the Emperor of the North Sea was named Hu, and the Emperor of the Central Region was named Hundun. Shu and Hu often met in Hundun’s territory, where he treated them kindly. They plotted to repay his kindness, saying: 'All men have seven apertures to see, hear, eat, and breathe—yet Hundun alone has none. Let us try boring some holes for him.' So they bored one aperture each day, and on the seventh day, Hundun died."
《庄子·应帝王》：“南海之帝为 儵 ，北海之帝为 忽 ，中央之帝为 浑沌 。 儵 与 忽 时相与遇於 浑沌 之地， 浑沌 待之甚善。 儵 与 忽 谋报 浑沌 之德，曰：‘人皆有七窍以视听食息，此独无有，尝试凿之。’日凿一窍，七日而 浑沌 死。”

In other records, however, Hundun is a ferocious monster that attacks virtuous individuals while submitting to the wicked.
As noted in Records of the Grand Historian·The Basic Annals of the Five Emperors: "In the past, Emperor Hong (帝鸿氏) had an unworthy son who concealed righteousness, harbored evil, and delighted in cruelty—thus the world called him Hundun."
《史记·五帝本纪》：“昔 帝鸿氏 有不才子，掩义隐贼，好行凶慝，天下谓之 浑沌 。”

And in The Book of Marvels·Hundun: "West of Kunlun there lives a beast resembling a dog, covered in long fur, with four legs like a bear but no claws, eyes that cannot see, legs that cannot walk, ears that cannot hear. It knows the way but cannot move, has a belly but no internal organs, and a straight gut that does not digest food—whatever it eats passes through directly. It charges at those with virtue but clings to those with wickedness. Heaven made it thus, and it is called Hundun."
《神异经·浑沌》：“ 昆仑 西有兽焉，其状如犬，长毛四足，似熊而无爪，有目而不见，行不开，有两耳而不闻，有人知往，有腹无五脏，有肠，直而不旋，食物径过。人有德行，而往牴触之；有凶德，则往依凴之。天使其然，名曰浑沌。”

Hundun is typically depicted as a pink, featureless sphere with six legs and four wings, often illustrated as a fat creature or a pig-like figure. Some versions add a non-existent mouth to emphasize its malevolence.

In certain records, Hundun is not a singular entity but an entire species. Thus, in modern adaptations, smaller Hundun individuals are sometimes kept as pets. They are considered nearly harmless, posing no significant threat to their surroundings.

Hundun (Chaos) and Dijiang (帝江, the "Earth God Bird") share the same physical form—some myths even suggest Hundun evolved from Dijiang’s imagery. Dijiang is described as a divine bird or mountain spirit that dances upon hearing music,.
as recorded in the Classic of Mountains and Seas (Shan Hai Jing), Book 2: *Western Mountains*: "West 350 li from here lies Mount Tian, rich in gold, jade, and orpiment. The Qingxi Stream flows from it, heading southwest into Tang Valley. There dwells a divine bird resembling a yellow sack, glowing crimson as molten fire, with six legs, four wings, and no discernible face—yet it understands song and dance. This is Dijiang."
《山海经》第二卷《 西山经》云：“又西三百五十里曰天山，多金玉，有青雄黄，英水出焉，而西南流注于 汤谷。有神鸟，其状如黄囊，赤如丹火，六足四翼，浑敦无面目，是识歌舞， 实惟帝江也。”

For unique abilities, consider this variant: areas traversed by Hundun wither and die.
As noted in What the Master Would Not Discuss: The Snake King (Zi Bu Yu): "In Chu region, there exists a Snake King resembling Dijiang—no ears, eyes, claws, or nose, only a mouth. Its square, meat-like form slithers clumsily, and wherever it passes, all vegetation withers."
《 子不语蛇王》：“楚地有蛇王者，状类帝江，无耳目爪鼻，但有口。其形方如肉柜，浑浑而行，所过处草木尽枯。”

Taotie (Gluttony)

​

Perhaps one of China's most infamous malevolent beasts, Taotie is a creature that may even be familiar to some Western audiences. Like Hundun, its form is relatively fixed, yet it boasts numerous variations in mythological accounts.

Some records identify it as the fifth son of the Dragon King, while others offer conflicting descriptions.

The Records of Demons and Spirits: Beasts (Shen Mo Zhi Yi·Yi Shou Pian) describes: "In the far south of the Divine Land lurks a vicious beast—four eyes, black hide, long neck, and four legs. Fierce and insatiable, it ravages the land with wind-like speed. A species of water dragon, it bears a pair of horns, exudes an aura of cold, and typically appears bluish-white, measuring dozens of zhang in length. Its temperament shifts unpredictably between docility and rage; when it takes flight, it churns the waters into towering waves, a truly majestic and terrifying sight."
《神魔志异·异兽篇》：神州极南有恶兽，四目黑皮，长颈四足，性凶悍，极贪吃。行进迅疾若风，为祸一方。蛟龙水兽的一种，头有一对角，全生寒气围绕，多数呈青白色，长数十丈，性时而温和时而暴躁，腾空而起激起数丈水浪，威武无比。

Regardless of these variations, Taotie is inextricably linked with gluttony. It possesses an insatiable appetite, capable of consuming anything and digesting everything. In some accounts, its greed proves its undoing—devouring so much that it eats away its own body, leaving only a floating head. Other versions claim it perishes from overeating, literally bursting at the seams.

Visually, Taotie's design is based on bovine or ovine features: an enormous head and mouth, with eyes positioned beneath its armpits. Due to its association with dragons in certain texts, modern depictions often incorporate reptilian traits—green or black scales covering its body. Some interpretations link it to the remains of the ancient war god Chiyou (to be discussed later), though this connection remains speculative.

The Lu Shi·Biography of Chiyou (Lu Shi·Chi You Zhuan) by Song dynasty scholar Luo Bi annotates: "Chiyou, a deity bearing celestial mandates, assumed ever-changing forms. Bronze vessels from the Three Dynasties frequently depicted his likeness as a warning against tyranny. His form typically combined bestial features with fleshy wings." Judging by this description, Chiyou may indeed be an early iteration of Taotie.
宋罗泌《路史·蚩尤传》注云：“蚩尤天符之神，状类不常，三代彝器，多者蚩尤之像，为贪虐者之戒。其像率为兽形，傅以肉翅。”揆其所说，殆亦饕餮。

The Classic of Mountains and Seas: Western Wastes (Shan Hai Jing·Xi Huang Jing) further states: "Taotie, a beast resembling an ox with a human face, eyes beneath its armpits, that devours humans."
《神异经·西荒经》中有云：“饕餮，兽名，身如牛，人面，目在腋下，食人。”

Unlike Hundun, Taotie is universally portrayed as an embodiment of evil, ruthless and destructive. However, Shan Hai Jing·Northern Mountains (Shan Hai Jing·Bei Shan Jing) describes a similar creature: "On Mount Gouwu, where jade abounds above and copper below, dwells a beast with the body of a sheep, a human face, eyes beneath its armpits, tiger's teeth, and human claws. Its voice resembles an infant's cry—this is the Paoxiao, a man-eating monster."
《山海经·北山经》有云：“钩吾之山其上多玉，其下多铜。有兽焉，其状如羊身人面，其目在腋下，虎齿人爪，其音如婴儿，名曰狍鸮，是食人。”

This suggests Taotie may have originally been a mountain god, consistent with Shan Hai Jing's recurring motif of anthropomorphic mountain deities.

Taotie enjoyed widespread veneration, frequently appearing in ancient decorative arts—particularly during the Shang and Zhou dynasties. Omitting Taotie from a mythos set in China's ancient eras would noticeably diminish its authenticity.

 

[SAmaster]

Now, regarding geography—I personally subscribe to geographic determinism, so I believe geography shapes everything. If your setting doesn’t involve magic or gods playing an overwhelmingly dominant role, it’s best to base your geography on real-world China.

That means a relatively isolated landmass with vast inland expanses. Keep in mind that China’s regions are extremely diverse—religions, languages, cultures, customs, and ethnic compositions vary drastically, and it boasts nearly every type of terrain and climate found on Earth, except for fjords and Mediterranean climates.

So, my personal advice is: if you don’t have extensive knowledge, don’t try to model your entire fantasy China on the real thing. Otherwise, you’ll likely end up with something overly broad, vague, or even completely distorted. For most people, using one or two provinces as prototypes is a much more manageable approach.

If you’re designing an ancient and powerful China, a central core plain is essential—but it shouldn’t cover everything. Otherwise, it might resemble a fantasy India more than a fantasy China. Surrounding this plain should be multiple mountain ranges or deserts, which serve not only as natural defenses but also as barriers to prevent this "leviathan" from expanding unchecked. The interior should have plenty of hills and small mountainous regions, though these shouldn’t encroach on the core plain’s expanse. There should be one or two major rivers to facilitate internal communication.

A small inland sea or large lake is acceptable, but don’t let it dominate too much of the map—otherwise, storm surges could become a problem. Under a monsoon climate, an expanded ocean area often leads to devastating storm tides and floods.

A river like the Yellow River isn’t strictly necessary, but if you want that authentic flavor, its absence might feel like a missed opportunity.

When dividing regions, it’s best to follow your mountain ranges as natural boundaries—but not rigidly, because historical dynasties often split key areas across provinces to prevent easy political consolidation. For example, Hanzhong was carved out of Sichuan and assigned to Shaanxi.

If you want to depict the age-old struggle between agrarian and nomadic peoples, the Great Wall is indispensable. However, the Wall’s construction varied drastically across regions. Near the core plains, it was primarily stone and brick, built along mountain ridges. In the arid northwest, it was made of rammed earth mixed with straw—a simple but sturdy material, constructed in the deserts north of oases.

Remember, the Great Wall wasn’t just a single wall. It typically included fortresses, passes, nearby cities and water sources, and a network of watchtowers. So crossing it was a formidable challenge. Of course, if your Wall is more like the Warhammer Fantasy version of Cathay or the Game of Thrones Wall (thousands of feet tall), you can skip the extra defensive details.

Climate​

The climate should be predominantly monsoonal. The northwest can incorporate plateau/highland climates and continental arid zones. Generally, fantasy China should be placed in the eastern part of the continent—since, on Earth, monsoons primarily affect eastern landmasses. If your planet rotates in the opposite direction, you can reverse this.

If your world has a sideways rotation or is tidally locked? Frankly, that’s beyond my ability to envision.

Agriculture​

For an ancient feel, drier regions should focus on millet and foxtail millet, while wetter areas absolutely require rice. But rice cultivation isn’t exclusive to the south—northern China also has rice paddies. If you want to take an easy route, the entire core plain can be rice fields.

Now, if your fantasy China is small—and let’s be honest, such a setting creates strange implications. Given China’s historical influence, most of East Asia, all of Southeast Asia, the Eastern Steppe, parts of India and Persia, and even a slice of Europe were affected by Chinese civilization.

If you design a tiny (or even very small) fantasy China, you must account for uninfluenced Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Southeast Asia, and nomadic empires. This creates a cascade of knock-on effects, making it nearly impossible for most people to flesh out their world without it feeling disjointed or cobbled together.

Still, here are some suggestions:

• Island version: Model after Hainan or Taiwan—mountainous interiors surrounded by sea, trade-focused with some agriculture, and room for other races in the highlands.
• Basin version: Reference Sichuan or the Guanzhong Plain—enclosed by mountains, defensible, with internal plains. A major river isn’t strictly necessary due to the small size.
• Hilly/mountainous version: Look to Yunnan, Guizhou, and Fujian—few plains, underdeveloped agriculture, fragmented cultures/languages. Coastal areas (like Fujian) can be trade hubs, while inland regions might be shrouded in mysticism, with strong practitioner or religious influences and many minority groups.

If you go with a plain-only version… well, that’s a disaster waiting to happen. Either this China expands ruthlessly to its geographic limits, or it gets destroyed and vanishes. Unless you rely on divine or magical intervention…

You know something I think is overlooked for inspiration- I believe it's been a recent discovery that China had initially two seperate civilizations, formed around the Yangtze and Yellow River I believe, it's just one conquered and integrated the other before recorded history, and was able to easily administrate both (as opposed to other ancient river-valley civilizations). It could be interesting to spin off two river-valley civilizations to be a bit more culturally distinct form one another, and expanding that idea out there.

Finally, we've reached the chapter on fantastic creatures. Beyond the famous Qilin and the Four Sacred Beasts, China is home to a vast array of mythical beings.

First, let's introduce the counterparts to the Four Sacred Beasts—the Four Fiends:

Hundun (Chaos), Qiongqi (Violence), Taotie (Gluttony), and Taowu (Chaos Beast).View attachment 1313542​

Hundun (Chaos)​

View attachment 1313541​

Descriptions of Hundun vary across records, but its status differs significantly:

In some accounts, Hundun is the Central Heavenly Emperor, one of the primordial deities representing the original state of chaos—akin to Khaos (Χάος) in Greek mythology.
As described in Zhuangzi·Ying Di Wang: "The Emperor of the South Sea was named Shu, the Emperor of the North Sea was named Hu, and the Emperor of the Central Region was named Hundun. Shu and Hu often met in Hundun’s territory, where he treated them kindly. They plotted to repay his kindness, saying: 'All men have seven apertures to see, hear, eat, and breathe—yet Hundun alone has none. Let us try boring some holes for him.' So they bored one aperture each day, and on the seventh day, Hundun died."
《庄子·应帝王》：“南海之帝为 儵 ，北海之帝为 忽 ，中央之帝为 浑沌 。 儵 与 忽 时相与遇於 浑沌 之地， 浑沌 待之甚善。 儵 与 忽 谋报 浑沌 之德，曰：‘人皆有七窍以视听食息，此独无有，尝试凿之。’日凿一窍，七日而 浑沌 死。”

In other records, however, Hundun is a ferocious monster that attacks virtuous individuals while submitting to the wicked.
As noted in Records of the Grand Historian·The Basic Annals of the Five Emperors: "In the past, Emperor Hong (帝鸿氏) had an unworthy son who concealed righteousness, harbored evil, and delighted in cruelty—thus the world called him Hundun."
《史记·五帝本纪》：“昔 帝鸿氏 有不才子，掩义隐贼，好行凶慝，天下谓之 浑沌 。”

And in The Book of Marvels·Hundun: "West of Kunlun there lives a beast resembling a dog, covered in long fur, with four legs like a bear but no claws, eyes that cannot see, legs that cannot walk, ears that cannot hear. It knows the way but cannot move, has a belly but no internal organs, and a straight gut that does not digest food—whatever it eats passes through directly. It charges at those with virtue but clings to those with wickedness. Heaven made it thus, and it is called Hundun."
《神异经·浑沌》：“ 昆仑 西有兽焉，其状如犬，长毛四足，似熊而无爪，有目而不见，行不开，有两耳而不闻，有人知往，有腹无五脏，有肠，直而不旋，食物径过。人有德行，而往牴触之；有凶德，则往依凴之。天使其然，名曰浑沌。”

Hundun is typically depicted as a pink, featureless sphere with six legs and four wings, often illustrated as a fat creature or a pig-like figure. Some versions add a non-existent mouth to emphasize its malevolence.

In certain records, Hundun is not a singular entity but an entire species. Thus, in modern adaptations, smaller Hundun individuals are sometimes kept as pets. They are considered nearly harmless, posing no significant threat to their surroundings.

Hundun (Chaos) and Dijiang (帝江, the "Earth God Bird") share the same physical form—some myths even suggest Hundun evolved from Dijiang’s imagery. Dijiang is described as a divine bird or mountain spirit that dances upon hearing music,.
as recorded in the Classic of Mountains and Seas (Shan Hai Jing), Book 2: *Western Mountains*: "West 350 li from here lies Mount Tian, rich in gold, jade, and orpiment. The Qingxi Stream flows from it, heading southwest into Tang Valley. There dwells a divine bird resembling a yellow sack, glowing crimson as molten fire, with six legs, four wings, and no discernible face—yet it understands song and dance. This is Dijiang."
《山海经》第二卷《 西山经》云：“又西三百五十里曰天山，多金玉，有青雄黄，英水出焉，而西南流注于 汤谷。有神鸟，其状如黄囊，赤如丹火，六足四翼，浑敦无面目，是识歌舞， 实惟帝江也。”

For unique abilities, consider this variant: areas traversed by Hundun wither and die.
As noted in What the Master Would Not Discuss: The Snake King (Zi Bu Yu): "In Chu region, there exists a Snake King resembling Dijiang—no ears, eyes, claws, or nose, only a mouth. Its square, meat-like form slithers clumsily, and wherever it passes, all vegetation withers."
《 子不语蛇王》：“楚地有蛇王者，状类帝江，无耳目爪鼻，但有口。其形方如肉柜，浑浑而行，所过处草木尽枯。”

Taotie (Gluttony)
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Perhaps one of China's most infamous malevolent beasts, Taotie is a creature that may even be familiar to some Western audiences. Like Hundun, its form is relatively fixed, yet it boasts numerous variations in mythological accounts.

Some records identify it as the fifth son of the Dragon King, while others offer conflicting descriptions.

The Records of Demons and Spirits: Beasts (Shen Mo Zhi Yi·Yi Shou Pian) describes: "In the far south of the Divine Land lurks a vicious beast—four eyes, black hide, long neck, and four legs. Fierce and insatiable, it ravages the land with wind-like speed. A species of water dragon, it bears a pair of horns, exudes an aura of cold, and typically appears bluish-white, measuring dozens of zhang in length. Its temperament shifts unpredictably between docility and rage; when it takes flight, it churns the waters into towering waves, a truly majestic and terrifying sight."
《神魔志异·异兽篇》：神州极南有恶兽，四目黑皮，长颈四足，性凶悍，极贪吃。行进迅疾若风，为祸一方。蛟龙水兽的一种，头有一对角，全生寒气围绕，多数呈青白色，长数十丈，性时而温和时而暴躁，腾空而起激起数丈水浪，威武无比。

Regardless of these variations, Taotie is inextricably linked with gluttony. It possesses an insatiable appetite, capable of consuming anything and digesting everything. In some accounts, its greed proves its undoing—devouring so much that it eats away its own body, leaving only a floating head. Other versions claim it perishes from overeating, literally bursting at the seams.

Visually, Taotie's design is based on bovine or ovine features: an enormous head and mouth, with eyes positioned beneath its armpits. Due to its association with dragons in certain texts, modern depictions often incorporate reptilian traits—green or black scales covering its body. Some interpretations link it to the remains of the ancient war god Chiyou (to be discussed later), though this connection remains speculative.

The Lu Shi·Biography of Chiyou (Lu Shi·Chi You Zhuan) by Song dynasty scholar Luo Bi annotates: "Chiyou, a deity bearing celestial mandates, assumed ever-changing forms. Bronze vessels from the Three Dynasties frequently depicted his likeness as a warning against tyranny. His form typically combined bestial features with fleshy wings." Judging by this description, Chiyou may indeed be an early iteration of Taotie.
宋罗泌《路史·蚩尤传》注云：“蚩尤天符之神，状类不常，三代彝器，多者蚩尤之像，为贪虐者之戒。其像率为兽形，傅以肉翅。”揆其所说，殆亦饕餮。

The Classic of Mountains and Seas: Western Wastes (Shan Hai Jing·Xi Huang Jing) further states: "Taotie, a beast resembling an ox with a human face, eyes beneath its armpits, that devours humans."
《神异经·西荒经》中有云：“饕餮，兽名，身如牛，人面，目在腋下，食人。”

Unlike Hundun, Taotie is universally portrayed as an embodiment of evil, ruthless and destructive. However, Shan Hai Jing·Northern Mountains (Shan Hai Jing·Bei Shan Jing) describes a similar creature: "On Mount Gouwu, where jade abounds above and copper below, dwells a beast with the body of a sheep, a human face, eyes beneath its armpits, tiger's teeth, and human claws. Its voice resembles an infant's cry—this is the Paoxiao, a man-eating monster."
《山海经·北山经》有云：“钩吾之山其上多玉，其下多铜。有兽焉，其状如羊身人面，其目在腋下，虎齿人爪，其音如婴儿，名曰狍鸮，是食人。”

This suggests Taotie may have originally been a mountain god, consistent with Shan Hai Jing's recurring motif of anthropomorphic mountain deities.

Taotie enjoyed widespread veneration, frequently appearing in ancient decorative arts—particularly during the Shang and Zhou dynasties. Omitting Taotie from a mythos set in China's ancient eras would noticeably diminish its authenticity.

Bottom left there looks like a dark souls boss.

Not sure if it's off-topic, but I do remember having to read an indian fable regarding a monster known for eating tigers. The story regards a dog getting a sage to turn him into increasingly tougher animals, until it's turned into one of said monsters, who then attacks the sage and turns it back into a dog to lecture it about how people should never try to reach above their station. Hindu's hate dogs for weird reasons.

 

[zeruosi]

You know something I think is overlooked for inspiration- I believe it's been a recent discovery that China had initially two seperate civilizations, formed around the Yangtze and Yellow River I believe, it's just one conquered and integrated the other before recorded history, and was able to easily administrate both (as opposed to other ancient river-valley civilizations). It could be interesting to spin off two river-valley civilizations to be a bit more culturally distinct form one another, and expanding that idea out there.

To some extent, you're right. If we examine China's archaeological records, the first Chinese dynasty actually exhibited distinct characteristics of the Yangtze River civilization rather than the Yellow River civilization. Moreover, the lower Yellow River region was entirely swamps and wetlands in the early dynastic period, which was hardly conducive to the emergence of civilization.

Given the lack of reliable historical records, there's considerable speculation surrounding these issues.

In early China, there was a period known as the "Period of Diverse Blooming" (满天星斗期), during which Chinese civilization resembled that of Mesopotamia or early India—fragmented into numerous city-states, with some dominant polities (such as Shimao, Shuanghuaishu, and Liangzhu). In Chinese archaeology, this era is referred to as the "Ancient States Period" (古国时代).

However, China quickly transitioned from the "Period of Diverse Blooming" to the "Period of One Dominant Moon" (月明星稀期), where a primary civilization core emerged—the Erlitou region. This marked the "Fangguo Era" (方国时代), characterized by large city-state alliances competing for resources.

Finally, China entered the dynastic era of a vast centralized state, with a unified empire taking shape. Centered on Erlitou, it expanded over 400,000 square kilometers. Interestingly, this timeframe closely parallels the rise of the Akkadian Empire. The Xia Dynasty emerged around 2070 BCE, while the Akkadian Empire was founded in 2192 BCE—merely a century apart.

The transition from "Diverse Blooming" to "One Dominant Moon" involved significant events. First, the decline of Liangzhu and the Yangtze River civilization, likely due to marine transgressions and floods. After Liangzhu's fall, similar cultural complexes appeared north of the Yangtze River. These groups may have migrated northward into the Yellow River basin, merging with early Yellow River civilizations.

Subsequently, the "4.2-kiloyear event" (a global climate crisis) played a crucial role in Erlitou's rise. In China, this manifested as the Yellow River changing its course from the Huai River northward. To some extent, the legend of Yu the Great taming the floods preserves fragmented memories of this period. Geological studies have uncovered evidence of massive dam-like structures upstream on the Yellow River. It's hypothesized that the river accumulated water equivalent to 3,000 Three Gorges Dams before the dam collapsed, unleashing a catastrophic flood that devastated the entire basin.

This led to a civilization-wide decline. Before this, Erlitou was an unremarkable region, but afterward, it suddenly emerged as China's civilization core. This was likely a result of population concentration caused by the floods. Erlitou's location on high ground, far from the Yellow River's two major alluvial fans, probably spared it from the deluge. Similarly, this may have spurred the rise of the Dawenkou culture in Shandong. For a long time after the Xia's founding, the Dongyi people of Shandong—described in Records of the Grand Historian as the Xia's main rivals—even briefly overthrew Xia rule (as seen in the Han Zhuo usurpation). Archaeological evidence shows Dawenkou culture expanding into Erlitou's core territory during this period.

The later Shang Dynasty was directly descended from the Dongyi but remained in prolonged conflict with them. Interestingly, the Dongyi were considered the most civilized among the "Four Barbarians," initially bearing no strong derogatory connotations. The term "Dongyi" originally referred to tall, eastern people who used long bows.

Bottom left there looks like a dark souls boss.

It's indeed very well-suited to be a boss character—in fact, some Soulslike games have already drawn inspiration from such figures. Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty is a prime example.

Black Myth: Wukong has sparked considerable controversy in China, as its narrative deviates from the profound tone of the original Journey to the West. Some particularly dislike the inclusion of romantic elements, leading to heated debates. As a result, suggestions have emerged to avoid using mythological texts with concrete storylines as foundations for Soulslike games.

Given the existence of titles like Shadow Blade Zero, 1614: Blade Master, and Ming Dynasty: Shadows of Ruin, we’ll likely see a Dark Souls-inspired Classic of Mountains and Seas adaptation sooner rather than later.

 

[SAmaster]

To some extent, you're right. If we examine China's archaeological records, the first Chinese dynasty actually exhibited distinct characteristics of the Yangtze River civilization rather than the Yellow River civilization. Moreover, the lower Yellow River region was entirely swamps and wetlands in the early dynastic period, which was hardly conducive to the emergence of civilization.

Given the lack of reliable historical records, there's considerable speculation surrounding these issues.

In early China, there was a period known as the "Period of Diverse Blooming" (满天星斗期), during which Chinese civilization resembled that of Mesopotamia or early India—fragmented into numerous city-states, with some dominant polities (such as Shimao, Shuanghuaishu, and Liangzhu). In Chinese archaeology, this era is referred to as the "Ancient States Period" (古国时代).

However, China quickly transitioned from the "Period of Diverse Blooming" to the "Period of One Dominant Moon" (月明星稀期), where a primary civilization core emerged—the Erlitou region. This marked the "Fangguo Era" (方国时代), characterized by large city-state alliances competing for resources.

Finally, China entered the dynastic era of a vast centralized state, with a unified empire taking shape. Centered on Erlitou, it expanded over 400,000 square kilometers. Interestingly, this timeframe closely parallels the rise of the Akkadian Empire. The Xia Dynasty emerged around 2070 BCE, while the Akkadian Empire was founded in 2192 BCE—merely a century apart.

The transition from "Diverse Blooming" to "One Dominant Moon" involved significant events. First, the decline of Liangzhu and the Yangtze River civilization, likely due to marine transgressions and floods. After Liangzhu's fall, similar cultural complexes appeared north of the Yangtze River. These groups may have migrated northward into the Yellow River basin, merging with early Yellow River civilizations.

Subsequently, the "4.2-kiloyear event" (a global climate crisis) played a crucial role in Erlitou's rise. In China, this manifested as the Yellow River changing its course from the Huai River northward. To some extent, the legend of Yu the Great taming the floods preserves fragmented memories of this period. Geological studies have uncovered evidence of massive dam-like structures upstream on the Yellow River. It's hypothesized that the river accumulated water equivalent to 3,000 Three Gorges Dams before the dam collapsed, unleashing a catastrophic flood that devastated the entire basin.

This led to a civilization-wide decline. Before this, Erlitou was an unremarkable region, but afterward, it suddenly emerged as China's civilization core. This was likely a result of population concentration caused by the floods. Erlitou's location on high ground, far from the Yellow River's two major alluvial fans, probably spared it from the deluge. Similarly, this may have spurred the rise of the Dawenkou culture in Shandong. For a long time after the Xia's founding, the Dongyi people of Shandong—described in Records of the Grand Historian as the Xia's main rivals—even briefly overthrew Xia rule (as seen in the Han Zhuo usurpation). Archaeological evidence shows Dawenkou culture expanding into Erlitou's core territory during this period.

The later Shang Dynasty was directly descended from the Dongyi but remained in prolonged conflict with them. Interestingly, the Dongyi were considered the most civilized among the "Four Barbarians," initially bearing no strong derogatory connotations. The term "Dongyi" originally referred to tall, eastern people who used long bows.

It's indeed very well-suited to be a boss character—in fact, some Soulslike games have already drawn inspiration from such figures. Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty is a prime example.

Black Myth: Wukong has sparked considerable controversy in China, as its narrative deviates from the profound tone of the original Journey to the West. Some particularly dislike the inclusion of romantic elements, leading to heated debates. As a result, suggestions have emerged to avoid using mythological texts with concrete storylines as foundations for Soulslike games.

Given the existence of titles like Shadow Blade Zero, 1614: Blade Master, and Ming Dynasty: Shadows of Ruin, we’ll likely see a Dark Souls-inspired Classic of Mountains and Seas adaptation sooner rather than later.

If I recall, Black Myth Wukong was done by a Chinese Studio right? Personally I have no problem with a western studio approaching a major western work. Like say- the Dante's Inferno game they made was utter pulp trash, but it wasn't offensive, despite trying to be to garner media attention. Then again I'm not Italian. Maybe a similar situation could be Assassins Creed 3 which handles the American Revolution and has a LOT of mis-steps in it- I think entirely from a french studio wanting to act like enlightened centrists and not portray a uniformly pro-american perspective (which funnily enough, could have been done by just giving more attention to the English perspective on the conflict, who were hardly despotic tyrants as they were made out to be). But that's history, rather than a fictionalized story.

I do know they did a sort of cyberpunk-esque journey to the west type game back in the 360 era, that I think was decently well recieved, but I don't know if you guys have a lot of xbox's (I know the Japanese have very few of them, cause they prefer Playstations and Nintendo's- I believe China is similar to Korea and Russia in that you guys prefer PC games, but that's based off of hearsay from me).

I think they also said that the idea for Black Myth: Wukong is that it's not adapting Journey to the West right? It's more like a fanfiction sequel meant to be set in one of the Monkey King's reincarnations right?

 

[zeruosi]

I do know they did a sort of cyberpunk-esque journey to the west type game back in the 360 era, that I think was decently well recieved, but I don't know if you guys have a lot of xbox's (I know the Japanese have very few of them, cause they prefer Playstations and Nintendo's- I believe China is similar to Korea and Russia in that you guys prefer PC games, but that's based off of hearsay from me).

All three gaming consoles have their audiences in China. While they remain minority groups, China's massive population base means they still command a non-negligible market share—potentially millions, even tens of millions of players. However, users of these three platforms often look down on each other...

Yes, that's right—we primarily play PC games. Due to the infamous console ban (which plunged China's gaming industry into a disastrous winter), what circulates most in China are PvP games rather than single-player titles. But now, even PC gaming has declined relatively, with mobile games dominating the market. After all, they're the most accessible—you can play them anytime, anywhere.

Yet even with these niche audiences, given China's population base, even the smallest player bases can still number in the tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands.

I think they also said that the idea for Black Myth: Wukong is that it's not adapting Journey to the West right? It's more like a fanfiction sequel meant to be set in one of the Monkey King's reincarnations right?

The crux of the controversy lies here: they claim to stay faithful to the original work and adhere to its established lore. Yet the final product feels like a fanfiction version of Journey to the West, specifically echoing the core themes of The Monkey King's Legend (Wu Kong Zhuan). This has triggered significant backlash.

But then again, this seems to be the nature of the modern internet—no matter what you do, there will always be people who find something to complain about.

 

[SAmaster]

All three gaming consoles have their audiences in China. While they remain minority groups, China's massive population base means they still command a non-negligible market share—potentially millions, even tens of millions of players. However, users of these three platforms often look down on each other...

Yes, that's right—we primarily play PC games. Due to the infamous console ban (which plunged China's gaming industry into a disastrous winter), what circulates most in China are PvP games rather than single-player titles. But now, even PC gaming has declined relatively, with mobile games dominating the market. After all, they're the most accessible—you can play them anytime, anywhere.

Yet even with these niche audiences, given China's population base, even the smallest player bases can still number in the tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands.

The crux of the controversy lies here: they claim to stay faithful to the original work and adhere to its established lore. Yet the final product feels like a fanfiction version of Journey to the West, specifically echoing the core themes of The Monkey King's Legend (Wu Kong Zhuan). This has triggered significant backlash.

But then again, this seems to be the nature of the modern internet—no matter what you do, there will always be people who find something to complain about.

I guess that explains why the Chinese are muscling in hardcore to the Gacha market then. And why they're bothering to use an actual budget for them.

Do you guys also have that problem where the moment any new movie or video-game comes out, people decry some slight defect as the reason why civilization is in collapse, and why we need to chain women back to the bedpost? Cause I thought that was a distinctly american, or at least western problem. What's funny actually is since China has been getting into the video-game market (something I applaud because more competition is good- I'm a filthy capitalist pig like that) it's being hailed as 'saving' the gaming market/culture because it's being held up as adhering to a more traditionalist culture free of liberalism (which is funny given you guys are, yunno, communist). Sorry if I'm veering away from video-games writ large, it's just not something I'd been considering the reverse perspective on.

Anyways, do you guys usually have a problem with 'fanfiction' adaptions? Cause it seems like a non-issue to me. Usually the issue is more to do if anything gets retconned, which is the hot-topic issue. I don't think retcons are inherently bad, but the internet disagrees with me. Far as I know- since Journey to the West is a Buddhist story, any character that doesn't achieve Nirvana at the end would have to reincarnate, which seems to me perfect room for adaptation.

I mean for contrast we have another Souls-Like, Lies of P which I recently finished. And about the only complaint I'd have is I feel they glossed over the whole Pleasure Island segment (it's there if you squint, but only if you squint) and the

Spoiler: lies of P spoiler

decision to make Geppetto evil.

But it's been incredibly well recieved. Then again, Pinnochio as famed as it is, isn't anyones like foundational narrative work. Maybe God of War and the Illiad are a better example.

 

[zeruosi]

I guess that explains why the Chinese are muscling in hardcore to the Gacha market then. And why they're bothering to use an actual budget for them.

I absolutely hate gacha games—the "free-to-play" model is the most expensive trap of all. And because of the sunk cost fallacy, you might be exhausted but still forced to play every single day just to "get your money's worth." What a despicable product of monopolistic capitalism!

Do you guys also have that problem where the moment any new movie or video-game comes out, people decry some slight defect as the reason why civilization is in collapse, and why we need to chain women back to the bedpost? Cause I thought that was a distinctly american, or at least western problem. What's funny actually is since China has been getting into the video-game market (something I applaud because more competition is good- I'm a filthy capitalist pig like that) it's being hailed as 'saving' the gaming market/culture because it's being held up as adhering to a more traditionalist culture free of liberalism (which is funny given you guys are, yunno, communist). Sorry if I'm veering away from video-games writ large, it's just not something I'd been considering the reverse perspective on.

Regarding the core issue you're raising, I suspect you're referring to the increasing representation of minority groups in the gaming and film industries. Personally, I don't object to their representation - after all, I count myself as part of these groups to some extent. However, I sometimes feel some individuals take it too far. This might also be related to game companies' approach of combining certain stereotypical traits to represent these groups, resulting in rather awkward creations. Just look at how many Black characters in games now sport that cyberpunk-style hairstyle, which I've heard has actually caused discontent within the Black community.

The same issue manifests with Asian characters, even in live-action films. They're often portrayed as gloomy nerds with exaggerated slanted eyes - a clear case of stereotyping. This was one of the reasons Shang-Chi underperformed in the Chinese market.

As for other problems - yes, China has its share. This is evident in both animation and gaming. Since entering the 2000s, China's gaming and animation industries have experienced successive winters. Foolish parental complaints - where parents blamed games and animations for "ruining their children" - led to a long period where Chinese animation was dominated solely by Pleasant Goat and Big Big Wolf, Boonie Bears, and GG Bond. The first two were even forced to modify content due to allegations of promoting violence (the wolf trying to cook the sheep, which kids might imitate) and inappropriate language (using words like "shit"). China's animation industry only began recovering after 2016, while the gaming industry's revival came even more recently.

This was partly because the generation once restricted by censorship is now taking control of the industry. Yet we still see occasional parental complaints about animations and games - sometimes simply because a character has colorful hair.

I do believe competition is fundamentally good in many aspects. But competition should operate within certain rules. Healthy competition is like playing cards, whereas some instances resemble drawing pistols to shoot each other - and that's just not right.

Anyways, do you guys usually have a problem with 'fanfiction' adaptions? Cause it seems like a non-issue to me. Usually the issue is more to do if anything gets retconned, which is the hot-topic issue. I don't think retcons are inherently bad, but the internet disagrees with me. Far as I know- since Journey to the West is a Buddhist story, any character that doesn't achieve Nirvana at the end would have to reincarnate, which seems to me perfect room for adaptation.

Fans who are loyal to the original works often oppose changes made in fanfictions, especially when it comes to romantic relationships. After all, love can make people lose their rationality—they might even forsake their freedom for it.

Generally speaking, fanfictions tend to create romantic pairings between different characters, forming dedicated fandoms. Take Genshin Impact's Zhongli as an example: there are fans who ship him with Venti, Albedo, Aether, Lumine, Datalia, Xiao, Guizhong, and so on. These different fandoms often disdain one another, sometimes even erupting into heated arguments. Meanwhile, those who appreciate all versions are mockingly called "international orphans"—rejected by every fandom.

Personally, I don’t have strong opinions about fanfictions. However, I personally prefer grand, epic narratives—after all, I’m a fan of science fiction. In the past, Stellaris fanfictions on Chinese internet forums tended to be more hard sci-fi oriented, but nowadays, they’re almost exclusively light novels or low-quality web trash. I despise this shift, seeing it as a sign of the post-golden age—a symptom of fan culture’s decline. These works are also saturated with male harem fantasies, where creators and readers alike seem obsessed with turning every character they encounter into anime-style girls to add to their personal harem, sometimes even including self-inserts.

As for Journey to the West, the novel is so ancient that it has formed its own deeply entrenched cultural circle, with countless scholars offering interpretations—some profound, others bizarre (such as theories that chapter titles relate to Taoist cultivation, or that Buddhism merely pretends to be benevolent while secretly being malevolent). Much like how video platforms are flooded with deep dives into the themes of Dark Souls or Elden Ring, but Journey to the West analyses are far more ancient, diverse, and have a much broader (and typically older) audience. As a result, they’re far less receptive to novelty, and their fanbase often resists adaptations or modern reinterpretations of the original work.

But it's been incredibly well recieved. Then again, Pinnochio as famed as it is, isn't anyones like foundational narrative work. Maybe God of War and the Illiad are a better example.

The narrative style of God of War is indeed very immersive. However, as a casual player who mostly watches gameplay online, my own skills are too poor to defeat the bosses—I simply can't keep up. That's why I prefer to experience the game through videos.

As for Pinocchio, I’m not particularly interested in it at the moment. I was hoping to see a more traditional game with a distinctly Korean flavor, but Korean game developers don’t seem to be pursuing that direction.

 

[SAmaster]

I absolutely hate gacha games—the "free-to-play" model is the most expensive trap of all. And because of the sunk cost fallacy, you might be exhausted but still forced to play every single day just to "get your money's worth." What a despicable product of monopolistic capitalism!

Regarding the core issue you're raising, I suspect you're referring to the increasing representation of minority groups in the gaming and film industries. Personally, I don't object to their representation - after all, I count myself as part of these groups to some extent. However, I sometimes feel some individuals take it too far. This might also be related to game companies' approach of combining certain stereotypical traits to represent these groups, resulting in rather awkward creations. Just look at how many Black characters in games now sport that cyberpunk-style hairstyle, which I've heard has actually caused discontent within the Black community.

The same issue manifests with Asian characters, even in live-action films. They're often portrayed as gloomy nerds with exaggerated slanted eyes - a clear case of stereotyping. This was one of the reasons Shang-Chi underperformed in the Chinese market.

As for other problems - yes, China has its share. This is evident in both animation and gaming. Since entering the 2000s, China's gaming and animation industries have experienced successive winters. Foolish parental complaints - where parents blamed games and animations for "ruining their children" - led to a long period where Chinese animation was dominated solely by Pleasant Goat and Big Big Wolf, Boonie Bears, and GG Bond. The first two were even forced to modify content due to allegations of promoting violence (the wolf trying to cook the sheep, which kids might imitate) and inappropriate language (using words like "shit"). China's animation industry only began recovering after 2016, while the gaming industry's revival came even more recently.

This was partly because the generation once restricted by censorship is now taking control of the industry. Yet we still see occasional parental complaints about animations and games - sometimes simply because a character has colorful hair.

I do believe competition is fundamentally good in many aspects. But competition should operate within certain rules. Healthy competition is like playing cards, whereas some instances resemble drawing pistols to shoot each other - and that's just not right.

Fans who are loyal to the original works often oppose changes made in fanfictions, especially when it comes to romantic relationships. After all, love can make people lose their rationality—they might even forsake their freedom for it.

Yeah sounds like you have the opposite problem- here in the states we have practically no state enforced censorship. About the only rule is that you can't sell porn-games as physical media. Attempts by politicians to fearmonger about games corrupting the youth ended about a decade and a half ago- and only went as long as it did thanks to parents not understanding what video-games were (the height of this was the Columbine school shooting being blamed on DOOM in specific, but even that never got so far as to manifest into some sort of legal action).

What's happened is a weird reversal in fact- see old conservatives didn't like video-games because it was new technology. Young conservatives don't like video-games because they try to appeal a diverse audience that includes women and minorities. Again it's not turned into even a discussion of legal action, but it's at the center of our culture war (or at least the culture war gets to the center of a lot of things). This is where we had the situation where Black Myth: Wukong was hailed as 'saving' the industry since apparently the Chinese aren't trying to appeal to a 'diverse' audience (they claim). Really what it is, is they despise the culture of equality (not to say there aren't things to criticize, but they aren't looking to make things better for everyone, they want to make things worse for everyone else), and they are eager to laud something from outside that culture as superior (even of course when it makes no sense).

Generally speaking, fanfictions tend to create romantic pairings between different characters, forming dedicated fandoms. Take Genshin Impact's Zhongli as an example: there are fans who ship him with Venti, Albedo, Aether, Lumine, Datalia, Xiao, Guizhong, and so on. These different fandoms often disdain one another, sometimes even erupting into heated arguments. Meanwhile, those who appreciate all versions are mockingly called "international orphans"—rejected by every fandom.

Personally, I don’t have strong opinions about fanfictions. However, I personally prefer grand, epic narratives—after all, I’m a fan of science fiction. In the past, Stellaris fanfictions on Chinese internet forums tended to be more hard sci-fi oriented, but nowadays, they’re almost exclusively light novels or low-quality web trash. I despise this shift, seeing it as a sign of the post-golden age—a symptom of fan culture’s decline. These works are also saturated with male harem fantasies, where creators and readers alike seem obsessed with turning every character they encounter into anime-style girls to add to their personal harem, sometimes even including self-inserts.

As for Journey to the West, the novel is so ancient that it has formed its own deeply entrenched cultural circle, with countless scholars offering interpretations—some profound, others bizarre (such as theories that chapter titles relate to Taoist cultivation, or that Buddhism merely pretends to be benevolent while secretly being malevolent). Much like how video platforms are flooded with deep dives into the themes of Dark Souls or Elden Ring, but Journey to the West analyses are far more ancient, diverse, and have a much broader (and typically older) audience. As a result, they’re far less receptive to novelty, and their fanbase often resists adaptations or modern reinterpretations of the original work.

The narrative style of God of War is indeed very immersive. However, as a casual player who mostly watches gameplay online, my own skills are too poor to defeat the bosses—I simply can't keep up. That's why I prefer to experience the game through videos.

As for Pinocchio, I’m not particularly interested in it at the moment. I was hoping to see a more traditional game with a distinctly Korean flavor, but Korean game developers don’t seem to be pursuing that direction.

Yes, you mean the shipping wars. Same here.

Anyway I wouldn't get too worried about things- when things hit a broad appeal they end up hitting the lowest common denominator. It's the trend for all things. All you gotta do is wait it out until those guys find something else to latch on, or mature, and you end up with a more matured and tempered fandom afterwards. Of course the tradeoff by then is that's usually the point when you've stopped recieving new content for something. Unless you end up hitting legacy franchise territory, like say Star Wars.

Anyway it sounds odd- cause I feel in western culture, the older a piece of work, the MORE open it is to novelty. Like, probably the most 'sacred cow' text I can think of would be the bible, but authors both religious and secular mine the CRAP out of that whenever they can. I remember a while ago, there was an indie fighting game about deities that included buff jesus, using the cross to beat his opponents. And while novel, it was more novel in how it ended up generating no real controversy. Honestly I think you probably COULD do a dark-souls rip-off of Jesus and his disciples, turning him into an anime-pretty boy and everything.

I'll say Lie's of P doesn't break the mold, but it DOES do the mold VERY well. It surprisingly does more with narrative and story, but I think that's largely due to Souls games being so nebulous in their own. It adds a TON of quality of life features that don't decrease difficulty, they just make the game less frustrating to play. What I found funny is people constantly saying it's harder than Dark Souls, but I had no problem with it actually. I think because I kept dumping my experience into levels rather than risk losing them, and I think most people insisted on parrying all the bosses, while I blocked only when I couldn't dodge. Honestly I give them a round of applause for a korean studio busting in and giving us a very refined game.

 

[20211433gwx]

Great post! I'm an addict to xuanhuan novels(basically, they are Chinese fantasy novels), and I'd like to post some of my ideas on Chinese crafts or products in the fantasy world below your post (silk, porcelain, and tea are already too boring for me)

 

[zeruosi]

Yes, you mean the shipping wars. Same here.

Anyway I wouldn't get too worried about things- when things hit a broad appeal they end up hitting the lowest common denominator. It's the trend for all things. All you gotta do is wait it out until those guys find something else to latch on, or mature, and you end up with a more matured and tempered fandom afterwards. Of course the tradeoff by then is that's usually the point when you've stopped recieving new content for something. Unless you end up hitting legacy franchise territory, like say Star Wars.

Based on past trends, it seems to be the case—but I can't say for sure what the future holds.

My point is, Chinese youth have been heavily influenced by Japanese anime, and their fascination with stylized female characters doesn't seem to be fading... People might even project complex emotions onto something as abstract as a cluster of nanobots.

Anyway it sounds odd- cause I feel in western culture, the older a piece of work, the MORE open it is to novelty. Like, probably the most 'sacred cow' text I can think of would be the bible, but authors both religious and secular mine the CRAP out of that whenever they can. I remember a while ago, there was an indie fighting game about deities that included buff jesus, using the cross to beat his opponents. And while novel, it was more novel in how it ended up generating no real controversy. Honestly I think you probably COULD do a dark-souls rip-off of Jesus and his disciples, turning him into an anime-pretty boy and everything.

As someone without religious beliefs, while I find religious parody a bit odd, I don't have any strong opinions about it. Personally, I quite enjoy handsome anime-style male characters—like Miquella from Elden Ring or Gwyndolin from Dark Souls. But I hope their depth and substance remain intact, and that the overall narrative stays hardcore. That's just my personal aesthetic preference.

Speaking of which, I need to mention horror games or videos. Take the "Pseudo-Human" series, for example. Ever since it introduced religious figures like Gabriel, Jesus, and Satan, I feel it has lost its edge. Before these additions, it delivered pure, visceral horror rooted in physical dread. Now, while these elements might carry specific religious symbolism for believers, they leave me completely unmoved. The horror has been diluted to the point of nonexistence—because, as Lovecraftian mythology teaches us, humanity's deepest and greatest fear is the unknown. By making itself known, Pseudo-Human has stripped away its own terror.

I'll say Lie's of P doesn't break the mold, but it DOES do the mold VERY well. It surprisingly does more with narrative and story, but I think that's largely due to Souls games being so nebulous in their own. It adds a TON of quality of life features that don't decrease difficulty, they just make the game less frustrating to play. What I found funny is people constantly saying it's harder than Dark Souls, but I had no problem with it actually. I think because I kept dumping my experience into levels rather than risk losing them, and I think most people insisted on parrying all the bosses, while I blocked only when I couldn't dodge. Honestly I give them a round of applause for a korean studio busting in and giving us a very refined game.

What I mean is, it doesn't evoke the essence of ancient Korea. Instead, it gives off a vibe of dolls and steampunk, which is why I say it lacks traditional authenticity.

That said, it's still a great game—it's just that I personally would have preferred a setting rooted in ancient Korean culture, similar to how Sekiro or Nioh authentically depict feudal Japan.

 

[20211433gwx]

Firstly, I would like to emphasize the importance of danyao(丹药,or elixirs) in the Chinese fantasy world: in the magnificent Chinese fantasy world, danyao can be regarded as the lifeline for heroes to travel and upgrade, and their importance is no less than that of top-level weapon. Whether it's healing injuries, improving cultivation, or acquiring special abilities, danyao play an irreplaceable role. In the marketplace of the xuanhuan world, the trade of danyao is always hot, and advanced danyao can even trigger fierce competition among various forces, which shows their preciousness.
The inspiration for danyao in reality comes from traditional Chinese medicine(中药), which is closely related to Yan Emperor(炎帝,or fire emperor) and Huang Emperor(黄帝,or yellow emperor). Yan Emperor and Emperor Huang are semi-divine emperors in Chinese stories from thousands of years ago, they became gods after their death. Legend has it that Yan Emperor discovered the efficacy of herbal medicine. He traveled to famous mountains and rivers, tested the poison with his body, laying the foundation for the refinement of danyao. The Huang Emperor ordered ministers to study the art of alchemy, integrating herbs with the spiritual energy of heaven and earth to make danyao that can enhance physical fitness.
The production process of traditional Chinese medicine in reality provides rich inspiration for the refining of danyao in the fantasy world. For example, traditional Chinese medicine emphasizes the selection of materials and believes that the more valuable the material, the more magical it is. For example, ordinary ginseng and lingzhi have extremely high medicinal value in reality and become the basic materials of danyao in the fantasy world. Therefore, heroes need to go through various dangers to find valuable raw materials in order to make powerful danyao. Alchemists need to combine rare medicinal materials with their own spiritual power in places with abundant spiritual energy, corresponding to changes in yin and yang, and guide the medicinal power to condense into danyao. The preparation of traditional Chinese medicine emphasizes craftsmanship, which has evolved into various fancy alchemy techniques in the fantasy world. For example, the essential tool for making traditional Chinese medicine in reality, the "alchemy furnace," has become a powerful tool in the fantasy world, which can enhance the power of danyao.
Here are a few common uses of danyao that I know:
Upgrade danyao: It can help users increase the success rate of leveling up at lower levels, but eating too much can make it difficult to level up at higher levels
Rebirth danyao: can revive and become stronger after the user is seriously injured
Poison danyao: can make users feel various pains and even be exploited by enemies
Evil danyao: using soul as material, but with extremely strong power
Eating too much danyao will produce impurities in the body, which require various means to remove.
Additionally, I have found a picture of a real-life alchemy furnace and a picture of alchemy in a fantasy world and placed them below.

 

[20211433gwx]

The second point I want to make is fuzhou(符咒,or talismans). In the fantasy world, talismans are extremely important and can be regarded as the "universal tool" of heroes. Whether it's using talismans to release powerful spells to attack enemies during battle, using defensive talismans to save lives in danger, or using teleportation talismans to cross thousands of miles, talismans can play a crucial role. It is also commonly used to seal evil objects, protect the mountain gate of the academy, and so on.
The talismans in reality do exist, but they do not have the same strong power as in novels. Ancient Chinese people prayed for the protection of gods by drawing symbols and chanting spells. After the invention of paper in the Eastern Han Dynasty, Taoism(道教) systematized and standardized these symbols and spells, forming a unique system of talismans.The drawing of talismans needs to be done by Taoist priests(道士) at a specific time and place, after bathing and fasting. When drawing, using cinnabar, ink, and other pigments, a brush(毛笔) is used to outline specific lines and patterns on yellow paper, silk, and other carriers. These lines and patterns are not arbitrary, but contain a call to the gods and a simulation of the laws of heaven and earth.Taoist priests recite mantras(咒语) with specific tones and rhythms, injecting their thoughts and magical powers into the talismans to give them corresponding effects. In the fantasy world, Taoist priests can make various magical spells. In reality, Taoist temples(道观) produce a large number of talismans, and I found a picture of the talisman.
In fantasy novels, the functions of talismans are as follows:
Attack talismans: For example, the "Palm Thunder Talisman(掌心雷)". When the user crushes the talisman, a thunderous force will condense from the palm of the hand, striking the enemy with tremendous power.
Defensive talisman: They can form a light shield around the body to resist enemy attacks.
Auxiliary talismans: For example, the Jiama(甲马) is a type of Taoist talisman, belonging to the Six Ding Six Jia Divine Talisman(六丁六甲神符). On the talisman paper, there are six "ding(丁)" characters and six "jia(甲)" characters written, and the symbol of the North Star(北极星) is drawn. When in use, tie the Jiama to your leg, while maintaining a vegetarian diet and not drinking alcohol. Then, perform a divine act by blowing air and reciting mantras, and you can travel thousands of miles a day.

 

[20211433gwx]

Okay, the last thing I want to say is lianqi(炼器,or refining). Refining is very similar to alchemy. In the fantasy world, refining is a magical technique that transforms magical raw materials into powerful magical tools. The weapons held by heroes, defensive armor, and flying weapons all come from the hands of lianqishi(炼器师,or refining artisan). A magical weapon can even make the weak counter attack the strong, and its importance is no less than that of danyao and talismans.
The refining process is complex and full of challenges. The refining artisan needs to first design a suitable tool shape and pattern based on the characteristics of the raw materials they want to refine; Then use ture-fire(真火) to melt the materials, continuously injecting one's own spiritual power to guide the fusion of the materials; After being formed, various rune formations need to be carved, and finally, through blood dripping to recognize the master, warming and offering sacrifices, the magic weapon can establish a connection with the master and unleash its true power.
In reality, China's smelting culture originated from the Spring and Autumn Period and the Warring States Period. At that time, the Chinese people discovered cast iron and softening treatment technology, which greatly improved the toughness and service life of iron tools, thus giving rise to the smelting culture. In the Han Dynasty, the invention of blast furnaces and Stirring Steel Process(炒钢法) brought about a new leap in smelting technology. From the Han Dynasty to the Northern Song Dynasty, China produced a large amount of steel and participated in international steel trade with India and Rome. This is a picture of a han chinese blast furnace.
In addition to weapons, the refining products in the fantasy setting also include:
Qiankun Bag(乾坤袋): The most classic storage artifact, refined according to the laws of space, capable of accommodating mountains, rivers, and living creatures inside. The lower level has a capacity of several cubic meters, while the higher level can store a world.
Soul Illumination Lamp(聚灵灯): Using spirit grease or demon beast souls as fuel, the light can condense spiritual energy, dispel evil spirits, or illuminate the "dark realm" of soul level.
Puppet(傀儡): a product of the combination of mechanical techniques and refining tools, controlled by the master, with powerful combat capabilities.
Soul Lock Bell(摄魂铃) and Ten Thousand Soul Banner(万魂幡): Commonly used magical tools in evil cultivation that can absorb or summon souls.
There are various types of materials used for refining tools, each containing unique powers:
Stone supporting the sky(补天石): Originating from the legend of Nv wa repairing the sky(女娲补天), it is indestructible and can harmonize the attributes of the Five Elements.
Black iron(玄铁): buried deep in the heart of the earth, its entire body is pitch black like ink, incredibly heavy, and it carries the power of yin and cold. Often crafted into swords and knives, with sharp edges capable of breaking through space and absorbing enemy spiritual power.
Iron in meteorite(陨铁): Falling from beyond the sky, containing the power of stars, with a surface covered in mysterious patterns. Iron refined from meteorite often possess the ability to travel through the void and communicate with the stars.
Iron frozen for thousands of years(千年寒铁): Born in extremely cold regions, it has been tempered by frost for thousands of years and emits a piercing coldness. The magic weapon refined from this material can freeze vitality or time and space.

 

[20211433gwx]

In my personal opinion, danyao(丹药,or elixirs) are actually medicines with magical properties. They can replace medicines (if any) or tea in mods of fantasy worlds, while fuzhou(符咒,or talismans) should be seen as magical paper, cloth, or silk. In addition, the raw materials required for refining, such as Black iron(玄铁), can be used as special iron or copper.

 

[Zerodv]

What could be interesting alternate "domesticated" plants in east Asia? If it has any being a the place with 2 major agricultural origin points(virtually all Asian rice cultivation comes from the lower Yangtze)