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Tinto Talks #67 - 11th of June 2025 - Shinto and Shogunate

Hello, and welcome to another issue of happy Wednesdays Tinto Talks. Today, we will be taking a look at the mechanics for Shintō and the Shogunate.

Let’s start with the religion. In EUV, it is part of the Buddhist religious group:
Shinto Tooltip.png

Shinto Panel.png

As you can see, Shintō has two currencies: Honor and Purity. Besides being modified through events and the actions we’ll talk about in a bit, one thing to note is that fighting in battles will decrease your purity (due to the fact that blood is considered impure). Having high purity will allow the accumulation of honor, which will be able to be used for other actions, while having low purity would make people perceive you as an Oni on Earth, which may also have its benefits.
Purity.png

The different actions in the panel are ways of regaining purity, from the more simple ones of spending prestige or money for a cleansing ritual or a pilgrimage respectively, to the more expensive ones of offering a work of art or even the life of the ruler.

Besides these actions, the religion also features an International Organization, where countries can interact with the different factions present there. At start, there are three factions present: the Imperial Court, the Shogunate Court, and the Religious Sects, although more factions can appear in the future related to some other religious followers…

Each faction has some actions available, at the cost of honor, although not all the factions will be available to all countries. For example, if you are at war with the current Shōgun, you will not be able to access the actions of the shogunate court, for obvious reasons.
Shinto IO.png

Expansion Action.png

Demand Extra Payment.png

Appease Temples.png

Some of the actions of the Religious Sects will allow the country to interact with the mechanics of other Buddhist religions, but you will have to wait for future Tinto Talks for an explanation on those.

Shintō also gives access to some unique advances, like for example:
Matsuri.png

Nanto Rokushu.png

Shinbutsu.png

Kagura.png

Hachiman Worship.png

Let’s now move to talk about the Shogunate, which is present in the game as an International Organization:
Shogunate Tooltip.png

Shogunate.png

There is currently a bug with the ruler’s name not appearing in the proper order, it will be fixed.

There’s two types of special statues in the Shogunate International Organization: the Sugo and the Emperor (or Emperors in this case, more on that on Friday). The Emperor is the one that is “technically” the ruler of Japan (although the one actually in charge is the shōgun), while the Shugo are provincial governors, giving them some nice bonuses.
Shugo.png

There’s an action for the shōgun to either grant or revoke the governorship of a province, while the individual clans also have the option of basically becoming a de-facto shugo if they manage to establish enough presence in a particular province.
Shogunate Laws and Actions.png

However, these actions will only be available as long as the Shogunate itself has the appropriate law, and will be disabled once it centralizes control.
Residence Law.png

Becoming the leader of the Shogunate is something that is not granted, and instead it has to be earned. The first step to take is to obtain the backing of the imperial court, with the action Become Shōgun of the Imperial Court faction in the Sintō IO:
Become Shogun.png

This will grant a modifier directly to the ruler (not the country), and a casus belli to declare war on the current leader of the shogunate. If the war is declared and won while still having the same ruler, a special peace treaty can be enacted forcing the change of leadership.

And that is all for today. Tomorrow we have the ‘Behind the Music of Europa Universalis V - Composing the Grandest Score’ video, and on Friday we will be back with a further look at flavor content for Japan (and the Japanese clans), as well as the situations of the Nanbokucho and Sengoku Jidai. See you there.

And remember, Wishlist Europa Universalis V now!
 
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love the current iteration of Shinto I gotta say. Not sure only about the "loosing purity because you fight", but otherwhise this looks quite amazing imo. But then I'm not an expert on far east religion, but it looks interesting to play within. Can't wait to see the situation on friday !
It's because blood is impure, so if you spill blood you get tainted.
 
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I think it's be more natural English for the Shinto description should say "tied to and blended with" rather than "tied and blended with".
In the Imperial Court actions, "Get Marriage" sounds blunt and informal, something like "Obtain Marriage" would be better, and in the Religious Sects actions "Keep Kami and Buddha Balanced" is a bit verbose, I think "Balance Kami and Buddha" is cleaner.

Since you've got Shinbutsu Shugo as an advance, why not use that as the name for the religion?

Hachiman Worship should say "Hachiman is one of the most venerated divinities".

The Shogunate system looks very cool, do the Shugo provinces correspond to the province map mode? Can there only be one shugo daimyo in each province?
 
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Most of these mechanisms are quite good. However, categorising Shinto under Buddhism feels as awkward to me as grouping Haitian Vodou under Christianity. Couldn’t we establish a separate category for Shinto alone, assuming all other factors—such as its relationship with various Buddhist sects—remain unchanged? Perhaps it’s just my obsessive tendencies…
Without mechanics to support religious syncretism, this kind of round peg in a square hole fudge is necessary.
 
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1. I get that we can become a Shogun, but is there a way to depose the Emperor and install our own family as one?
I might as well tell God to step down and make me a God.

I think any fucking clan during that time period who even considers it would be forced to seppuku at best.
 
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Looking at the numerous flags under the Shogun I'm confident that EU5 will provide an enjoyable gameplay experience. The portrayal of Japan in EU4 was disappointing after all. By the way, it seems the total Shinto population is displayed as 11.295M, and assuming the majority of that is in Japan, it appears to be a considerably excessive figure. Even studies that overestimate the figures rarely exceed ten million people;;
 
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Can you turn the Shogun into a puppet like the Hosokawa and the Hojo did historically?

It is a country, so you can still vassalize them.
 
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China, syncretising Mahayana Buddhism, confucianism and local beliefs: Mahayana/Eastern Buddhism
Korea, syncretising Mahayana Buddhism, confucianism and local beliefs: Mahayana/Eastern Buddhism
Vietnam, syncretising Mahayana Buddhism, confucianism and local beliefs: Mahayana/Eastern Buddhism
Japan, syncretising Mahayana Buddhism and local beliefs: Shinto

What is the reasoning for this? Why does the Japanese local syncretism merit a separate religion, but not the Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese local syncretisms? Not even wanting a separate set of religious mechanics works as an excuse, seeing how Hinduism can include multiple mutually exlcusive mechanics under the same religion.
 
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The shogunate had too few political layers. There should have been at least 3 Kanrei (管領) as the shogun's assistants, who were equivalent to the shogun's highest agents in areas that he could not directly govern.. In the 14th century, the shogunate usually appointed three clans as Kanrei.
 
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Besides these actions, the religion also features an International Organization,

Does that mean there's a Shinto IO, different from Shogunate IO? So a country could be Shinto but not part of Shogunate or vice versa? Some examples of such situations?
 
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View attachment 1316992

Wait so, the two Tenno flags are confusing me. Are those the northern and southern courts? If so, then in the Shinto IO which one represents the Imperial court? This is a tad bit confusing to me but interesting nonetheless.
Yes, they are the two courts, and the one present in the Shinto panel is the general court no matter which one your clan supports.
 
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