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Tinto Flavour #27 - 13th of June 2025 - Japan, Nanbokucho, Sengoku

Hello and welcome once more to another edition of Tinto Flavour. Today we will continue the Japanese theme by taking a look at the flavor of Japan and the Japanese clans, as well as the situations of the Nanbokuchō and Sengoku Jidai.

After a long period of peace under the Kamakura Shogunate, the islands of Japan were plunged again into war during the Mongol invasions. That debilitated the authority of the Shōgun to the point that Yamato Go-Daigo Tennō was able to wrestle control of the country away from him. However, his intentions of restoring imperial rule were not to come to fruition, as his former ally Shōgun Ashikaga Takauji established a new Japanese Shogunate.

Now Shōgun Ashikaga Takauji rules over the country after Go-Daigo Tennō fled the capital and established himself in Yoshino. The struggle between the central government and the fleeing Emperor is far from over.

Japan.png

These are the estates of Japan:
Japan Estates.png

And it has this unique reform:
Shogunate Reform.png

While the other clans and the imperial courts have these other ones:
Clan Reform.png

Imperial Family.png

Japanese countries have some common advances, and some of the individual clans have also some unique ones. Some examples:
Bushido.png

Head Hunting.png

Codified Bushido.png


Some unique ones (try to guess which clan they are for):
Clans of Tosa.png

Izumi Sea.png

Unlikely Alliances.png

Uninspiring clan.png

Furinkazan.png

Let’s talk now about how the clans behave. Let me start by saying that our recommended country to play in Japan generally is the country of Japan itself, as the clans, being building-based countries, play quite a bit different than regular tags, and thus are rather suited to experienced players that want to try a different and more challenging game style.

That being said, let’s look at how they work. Being building-based countries, they are of course dependent on their buildings. Here is some of them:
Shoen.png

Yamashiro.png


The next ones are exclusive for the imperial court countries and the non-imperial clans, respectively:
Gosho.png

Yakata.png

And another important building that cannot be built manually but it will instead be built automatically when a clan is assigned to be Shugo of a province (see yesterday’s Tinto Talks for that mechanic):
Kokufu.png

As you can see, both their economy and their troops will depend directly on the buildings that they own, so their strategy is to expand their presence by building more of those buildings and also taking the ones owned by other clans in war.

Now that we mention war, it’s time to talk about the two civil war situations in the game. Let’s start with the Nanbokuchō Jidai, a situation that starts just at the beginning of the game. Initially, all countries all assigned to support either the northern or the southern court, according to their historical alliances, but when the situation starts, countries will get the following event:
Nanbokuchou start event.png

With this, the clans will be able to choose to switch loyalties, or even declare neutrality, although for obvious reasons neither the two courts nor the shogunate are able to change their allegiances. The whole country will thus be divided into sides:
Nanbokuchou panel.png

Nanbokuchou map.png

Even after the situation has started, countries can choose to change their loyalty, not only via the actions in the situation panel but also through events that will fire during the situation allowing for that. Besides that, there will also be other events firing with options of getting casus belli or even declaring wars, making it so that chaos is ensured.

One important thing to note is that as long as the Nanbokuchō Jidai situation is active, countries will not be able to declare war on others supporting the same side as them. If you want to attack another clan that is supporting the same side as you, you will have to do it after the situation is resolved (or choose to change your loyalty, of course).

To end the situation, one of the two courts must be forced to disappear, through a special peace treaty “Force Imperial Abdication”.

So, we just had a civil war, what about a second one? Whether the Nanbokuchō Jidai situation resolves successfully or not, an even bigger civil war will still be looming. The Sengoku Jidai situation can happen after 1400 if there is no Shōgun, or if the Shōgun is in a weak position (low legitimacy or stability, or with rebellion problems), or if there are more than 6 wars currently active among the clans. As such, a strong shogunate will be able to avoid falling into it if they manage to keep their children in check.

Once it starts, the stronger and bigger clans will automatically transform into landed Daimyō, with the rest receiving an event with the option to also become landed, at the cost of opinion with the shogunate.
Sengoku Event Start.png

Becoming landed will have many consequences. For once, all locations in the shogunate in which they have a presence with their buildings will become owned by them, and they will receive a new government reform replacing the “Japanese Clan” one:
Daimyo Reform.png

Even if a country does not choose to become landed with this event, they may have the option to do so in the future, both via further events that can fire during the situation, and also directly through the action “Proclaim Independence” in the situation panel:
Sengoku Panel.png

The actions available in the panel are slightly different for the Shōgun, giving extra tools to control the many clans, both the ones that have been already landed and those that are still as building-based countries:
Sengoku Shogun Actions.png


The objective of the Shōgun will thus be to curb the autonomy of the clans, while the objective of any clan would be to gain sufficient power to either become the Shōgun themselves or to destroy the shogunate entirely. The situation will end when there is only a single country in the shogunate (with the exception of allowing for the presence of a building-based emperor), or when the Shōgun has managed to reduce all other clans to just a single location building-based country.

As with the Nanbokuchō Jidai, there will be some events firing during the situation, giving the countries options to gain casus belli, declare wars, etc, and there are also some event chains of interaction between the Shōgun and the clans when the former uses the action to “Summon to Court”.

And that is all for today. With almost 150 countries in the Shogunate, there is much more to unpack in the game, but this is as far as we can show here.

As an extra treat, because many of you asked about it, here's an updated view of the terrain map for Japan, with an especial effect of cherry blossoms during spring:
Japan Terrain.png


Next week @Pavía will be back, so I'll leave you in his care (I still don't know what will be the schedule for next week, sorry).

And remember to Wishlist Europa Universalis V now!
 
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Is this true in all cases? I feel there should be an option to get at least the color of Japan. I would absolutely hate if my imperial restoration games forced me to play with a yellow Japan just because that’s what the southern court starts with.

Edit: actually I’m pretty sure I’d hate all games that don’t have an Ashikaga victory. Can this be a game rule? Japan as any color but red just feels wrong.
If the southern court wins they will still change to red.
 
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What are the conditions for the appointment and removal of the provincial governor? Or you can always assign and revoke them as many times as you want. And is there any way to prevent removal from office if you are a Shugo yourself?
 
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Good breakdown of the two situations (Nanbokuchō and Sengoku Jidai).
 
It will be random, although they require quite a bit of locations to be landed, so it's difficult that there's a complete overlap between two clans.
Wouldn’t it be more thematically appropriate and mechanically satisfying to have the newly landed clans at war with each other over the contested location(s)? Or at least an event offering the option between war and conceding the location?
Seems a bit silly to think in this new era of political chaos and ambitious daimyo that they’d politely flip a coin over territory. I know that’s not what is being represented in the random assignment, but you get the idea
 
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One important thing to note is that as long as the Nanbokuchō Jidai situation is active, countries will not be able to declare war on others supporting the same side as them. If you want to attack another clan that is supporting the same side as you, you will have to do it after the situation is resolved (or choose to change your loyalty, of course).

Can the clans attack each other before the situation starts? If they can, what happens when two clans that end up on the same side in the situation are already at war with each other? If that's solved by putting them on opposite sides of the situation, how is it selected which one goes where?

Don't take it against him, he usually has to deal with more things than me.

Having read the schizo thread, I assume he's either tasked with leading the defence against invaders of the facility, or locked up in the innermost keep, sitting firmly on the safe containing the release date.
 
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Will unlanded clans be able to build their unique buildings outside Japan(e.g. Korean and China which are not in the Shogunate)? Also is the Shogun going to defend them if they get attacked by countries outised the Shogunate?
 
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Just gonna say, while this is definitely subjective, but I’d recommend lowering the saturation of the water. Right now it looks more tropical and cartoony than realistic and I think the oversaturation is a big reason for that, plus I find the contrast between the deep oceans and the seas are too distracting with two drastically different shades of blue (one dark blue, one aquamarine) and I think adjusting the saturation would fix that :)

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These trees need to be less colorful, so unrealistic. Somebody's gotta tell them. So cartoony!
 
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  1. For works of art, The Tale of Genji, The Tale of the Heike, the Kojiki and Nihongi, The Diary of Lady Murasaki, Ise Grand Shrine, the Seven Great Temples of Nara, and more should all be considered.
  2. How are you handling Japanese names? Aristocrats usually had two names over the course of their life (a childhood name and an adult name), and many had more (having multiple adult names and/or religious names). This is even worse for emperors, who had posthumous names that they wouldn't have used while alive.
  3. The Ōnin War was named after the period it started in, Ōnin (応仁). If the war occurs early or later, will its name be changed accordingly (E.G., Bunshō or Bunmei)? And on a broader note, are eras present? I.E., are there events for era changes or some kind of mechanic? (I'm guessing no.)
  4. Are shugodai/landed retainers going to be represented?
  5. What changes to the shogunate will we be able to see/effect (E.G., Tozama and Fudai daimyō, the han system, etc.).
  6. The current description of the Ōnin War is laughably wrong; it was primarily a succession issue between Yoshihisa (the shogun's son) and Yoshimi (his brother). Furthermore, the sengoku jidai was certainly caused by more than just a succession issue, so putting the Ōnin War as the event is a little weird. I'd say that the Meiō incident (a coup which was instigated by the kanrei) is a better starting event, less because that was when the period actually started (the situation had already gotten out of control nearly 40 years prior), but because it was the point where it was obvious just how powerless the shogun actually was.
  7. In spite of the above, the Ōnin War should be included, as should the Kyōtoku incident (a conflict between a branch of the Ashikaga family and the Uesugi clan). Probably as disasters, though they could conceivably be situations.
 
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As soon as custom nations become avaliable and we get to make our own Japan gonna suffer, there is only one character worthy to become a shogun!! Clean your asses and wait!!!

ALCG0005-1339176326.png

Gonna blast the DDR anthem the entire game.
 
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What IOs will function during the Sengoku period, or how will the Shogunate IO change?

For example, in real life the Hosokawa clan was dominant in the 16th century for a time, reducing both the Ashikaga shogun and the emperor to puppets in Kyoto. Can this type of situation be represented, or is it only possible right now for a clan to usurp the shogun directly?

In fact, the shogun title was entirely abolished for 30 years in the three Great Unifiers, the part of the sengoku period that Japanese history is the most obsessed with. Can we claim new titles such as Kampaku? (Or I suppose, that would be reviving an old title)

And does clan independence mean full independence or are there certain limits from the Japan IO? Japan was still viewed as one country after all, and East Asian trade could be difficult if you did not possess the Japanese trade logbooks. But Europeans would of course be selling weapons to any clan.

Source: Isaac Meyer's History of Japan podcast, episodes 516-523
 
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so the pretender has worse stats.. However he also has a mohawk, which is infinitely cooler than a middle aged fart. Fuck it, Mohawk pubescent it is.
That's not a mohawk... But I don't know why they shaved his hair on the sides. I really wish the devs take their models more seriously. I don't want to be forced to use freaking EPE even in EU5.
 
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View attachment 1318228
These trees need to be less colorful, so unrealistic. Somebody's gotta tell them. So cartoony!
I'm following EU4's and all other Paradox game's color of the water which is less green and a bit darker which imo looks better, I only edited the water and didn't change anything about the color of terrain since I think it looks fine, but of course there's an argument to not change the water since it adds some stylistic variation between PDS games, not sure why the passive aggresiveness :)

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