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Stellaris Dev Diary #386 - Updates and a Wilderness Beta

Hi everyone!

It’s been a little while since our last dev diary - this one’s also going to be a bit short since we’ve been focusing on stabilizing 4.0 as much as we can.

The 4.0.17 and 18 updates we released yesterday is a pretty massive one with some impactful fixes. I'm pleased with the amount of things we got into it.

Here are the release notes:

Improvement​

  • The Hive Fallen Empire ships are now available for Biological Ship Empires if you progress down the Cosmogenesis Crisis Path.
  • Changes to ecumenopoleis, ring-, nanite-, hive-, and machine worlds:
    • District specialisations now visually swap to the appropriate art and district names for easier differentiation.
    • Secondary districts now have double the jobs of the primary districts.
  • Reverted the most recent changes to fallen empire building limitations. We'll be looking at a better solution for a future patch.
    • 4.0.18: Reverted all fallen empire building limitations from 4.0
  • Further Improved the Behemoth Fury endings
  • Added the Voidspawn Myocardius relic awarded to whomever manages to take down the Elder Voidspawn
  • Starbase Capacity tooltip now shows the number of owned systems contributing to Starbase Capacity.
  • Habitation districts on knight's habitats now swap to the Order's Demesne.
  • The host now gets a tooltip in Multiplayer on the Start Game button with a list of players that are holding up the game

Balance​

  • Wilderness Empires no longer have to consolidate 2500 biomass on a planet to build a Grand Archive
  • Secondary districts on hive worlds and machine worlds should now support targeted research specialisations
  • Wilderness empires now start with a Heartgrove specialisation instead of a Threadway specialisation
  • The event A Complete Collection will now only take one pop, avoiding depopulating entire planets.
  • AI empires will be more likely to declare a Cosmogenesis empire a crisis as they develop more Infinity Theses
  • The Synaptic Lathe will now ask for a refill if it drops below 50 pops instead of letting itself drop all the way to 0.
    • The Lathe had a "stable state" hack that stopped the purge below 40(00) pops to prevent it from decolonizing before - this has been removed as it should no longer be necessary. Burn those pops if you want science.
  • The Control Fragment now waits 2 decades before getting upset about your borders. Expand away!
  • Fallen Empire biological ships now equip the reactors of one size category larger, this also applies to Cosmogenesis biological ships.
  • Resource Consolidation origin needs to have the ability to make more machine (or nanite) worlds to unlock the full potential of their machine world (this includes the doubled jobs in the above patch note)
  • Updated weights for techs that unlock rural district specializations
  • Doubled the resettlement attractiveness of the Trium Atmospheric Deodorizer(tm).

Bugfix​

  • Fixed Wilderness issues
    • It should no longer implode randomly.
    • Balanced effects for Innate Design with Wilderness.
    • Turned Wilderness enforcers into Immunosymbionts to differentiate them from soldier Tamersymbionts.
    • The Wilderness Subterranean Cache building can now be placed in urban and trade district specializations
  • Fixed Synaptic Lathe issues
    • The Synaptic Lathe now correctly purges pops and produces science. (Special thanks to /u/Little_Elia for investigating. We fixed some of it differently than you did, but your post helped in identifying the issues.)
    • Pops will correctly process in or out of Neural Chip state if they are moved to or from the Lathe. (They will not be visible in the Neural Chip job until the monthly tick passes.)
    • The Synaptic Lathe purge should once again benefit from things that modify purge speed.
    • The Synaptic Lathe will now ask for a refill if it drops below 50 pops instead of letting itself drop all the way to 0. (The Lathe had a "stable state" hack that stopped the purge below 40 pops to prevent it from decolonizing before - this has been removed as it should no longer be necessary. Burn those pops if you want science.)
    • Fixed how Synaptic Lathe is being displayed in the sector view.
  • Fixed non-slaves being assigned to jobs before slaves.
  • Fixed recent issues introduced to the Synthetic Fertility origin by removing the invisible purge that was being applied (result in no factions being formed and no leaders being recruitable)
  • Virtuality Civilians are now also properly deleted if they do exist somehow. Non-Virtual Civilians can still exist for Virtual Empires.
  • You may no longer scrap 50% of your virtual pops for alloys.
  • Fixed issues where free traders could start with too many buildings
  • Fixed issues with fallen empires spawned by the Scion origin having incorrect buildings and districts
  • The composer of strands should no longer devolve thousands of pops. 400 is plenty.
  • The Pioneer Politics Agenda now has an appropriate icon.
  • Enabled the Heartgrove district specialisation for Wilderness empires
  • Treasure Curators now have an actual building icon as their workplace instead of a deposit icon.
  • Fixed a rare scenario where Driven Assimilators couldn't assimilate.
  • Prevent marking some jobs (criminals, civilians, unemployed) as favorite that should never be prioritized.
  • Space Fauna ship size selector will correctly display ship model preview.
  • Space Fauna designer will show the progress bar when creating a new design.
  • Purging a Gestalt Pop Group will no longer instantly kill all of them. Extract resources to your hearts content!
  • Conquered Starbases will no longer have text appear on the "Return Starbase" button
  • When checking if ship designs are identical, we now ignore the order of components within a section.
  • Fixed saving a Deep Space Citadel design creating duplicate designs and instantly changing the design of your DSCs.
  • Update Districts display if their swapped appearance changes
  • Processing and Forced Labor Purge should now correctly give resources when purging lithoids or machines
  • Habitats now get their districts even when not colonized yet
  • Added tooltips to the Behemoth mutation option icons
  • Reset Starting System when changing Origins when needed during the Empire Creation
  • Mechromancy Empires purging organics once again generate cyborg zombies.
  • Blocked Fallen Empire resource extraction buildings from the 6 government building slots
  • Blocked the Surface Quarry building on ringworlds and habitats
  • Nanotech Research buildings now give regular research jobs, but swap engineers to nanotech researchers
  • Researchers for machine intelligences now use more appropriate icons
  • Updated the effect tooltips for the Trium Atmospheric Deodorizer(tm) and Cyberdome.
  • Empires with Genesis Guides civics now start with a food stockpile and some food income.

UI​

  • The "Save As New Design" popup now updates the Save button immediately when you edit the name.
  • Fixed ship designer not updating the design name when you change it to the currently saved name.
  • Improve Buildings tooltips modifiers handling
  • Colony naming will now more often use custom names for the default value (colonizing Mars will propose Mars as the default colony name)
  • Fixed some planetary modifier icons that were low resolution
  • Fixed some modifiers not appearing in the empire size tooltip.

Performance​

  • Reduced mil power recalculations done by outliner fleet entry
  • Reduced habitability recalculations done by pop growth/decline
  • Reduced amount of times planet view tries to update pop group clothing

Stability​

  • Fixed crash in accepting peace due to deal containing transfer of non existing starbase
  • Fixed cross OS issue with randomized ethics in pop assembly leading to NUM_POP_GROUPS OOS (this is a big one)
  • Fixed mismatch in synchronized/unsynchronized nemesis handling in the voidworms AI that might lead to OOS when becoming a crisis.
  • Six more Out of Sync fixes

Modding​

  • Adds swap_type and swap_type_weight for districts to District Specializations.
  • District Specializations now belong to sets, and Zone Slots can now include or exclude entire zone sets
  • Migrated zone slots:zone relationships to zone_sets in place of using inline scripts
  • Added can_change_category to pop categories.
  • Changed various effects using pop amount/size to allow 0
  • Added ship_uses_corvette_reactors and ship_uses_destroyer_reactors scripted triggers
  • Added planet_is_habitat_equivalent, planet_is_ecu_equivalent, and planet_is_ring_world_equivalent scripted triggers which are used to determine the job numbers for district specialisations instead of checking the planet classes directly.
  • Updated scripted triggers for districts
  • Updated scripted triggers for zones
  • Updated inline scripts for some research district weights
  • Updated events for zone assignment upon a planet becoming a hive, machine or nanite world
  • Removed unneeded script for ecus transformations since industrial districts no longer exist

This update has a significant number of major changes, including district swaps for special planets like Ecumenopoleis and Ring Worlds, more fixes to Wilderness, the Synaptic Lathe, slavery, and the most common Out of Sync errors (including the cross-platform OOS that has been plaguing us).

We ended up reverting the changes that were made to Fallen Empire buildings - while we believe that they’re too easily acquired and plentiful, we’re going to take things slower and revisit them sometime in the future. (FE resource extraction buildings are being restricted to appropriate districts though.)

Modders should find the new zone_sets useful. It cleans up a lot of the work we were previously doing with inline scripts.
Instead of individually listing every District Specialization that is allowed or excluded using inline scripts, you can now assign one or more zone_sets to them.

Code:
zone_industrial = {
[...]
    zone_sets = {
        urban
        habitat_urban
        nexus
        hive
        ring_world
    }
[...]
}

You can then reference these in the zone_slots:
Code:
slot_city_01 = {
    included_zone_sets = {
        urban
    }
[...]
}

The intent is for this to make the creation of District Specializations a bit less error-prone, and make it easier for multiple mods to add more without interfering as much with each other.

Wilderness Open Beta​

We’ve seen a lot of erratic behavior with Wilderness empires, especially when your Biomass totals on a planet get too low, where sometimes jobs would go unworked, and you aren’t always able to influence it in any way.

We’re going to update the beta branch on Steam today edit: hopefully this week to test some experimental quality-of-life changes we’ve made to Wilderness. Some of them are impactful and different enough that we want to get some more eyes on them and get feedback before we consider moving them into the release build.

In the Wilderness Beta, jobs are actually worked automatically, using your primary species for traits. After all, you are the empire. This replaces the massive Workforce bonus that Wilderness pops received, and makes it behave closer to the intended design of the origin. This change intends to make Wilderness generally more robust against bugs and less prone to economic crashes when creating buildings that consume most of their Biomass.

Biomass should still chill “unemployed” like before, but the jobs will use 0 pops instead of 1. This should resolve any of those edge-case issues when many of your jobs wouldn’t be producing.

A Wilderness empire not filling their jobs properly.

Bad planet!

As part of this, we’ve enabled the workforce sliders for Wilderness jobs like other Empires have. This should give you more control over your economy, so you can disable certain jobs if you’re running a deficit or otherwise optimize your economy by only working the jobs that you need.

New Wilderness jobs, showing Workforce and allowing you to manipulate the sliders

Much better.

We recognize that this makes your Biomass species less important overall. You’ll probably want to optimize them for growth rather than production since they won’t be working the jobs anymore, so we wanted to put this up in an open beta to get your thoughts.

The Open Beta branch will also include the experimental fast save transfer that we’re currently expecting to go live after we can add a toggle to disable it if it’s causing save transfer issues.

Feature​

  • Experimental changes to Wilderness:
    • To prevent issues with biomass not being available on planets due to construction, all Wilderness jobs are now automatically worked without requiring biomass. These jobs are worked by your primary species.
    • Jobs for Wilderness are now also properly represented instead of being worked by a single pop with massive workforce bonuses, you now see exactly how the job is worked, and the sliders are also now usable to customize how much of each job will be worked.
    • These changes are intended to prevent situations where some jobs would go unworked, make Wilderness less bug-prone, and are intended to give you more control over your economy in deficit situations. Please provide feedback!
  • The experimental fast save transfer for multiplayer is included in this build.

Bugfix​

  • Fixed ringworlds colonized by gestalt empires having a mysterious city district that shouldn't exist.

Our intention is to run this Wilderness Open Beta for the rest of the summer so we can gather feedback.

What’s Next?​

4.0.19 is tentatively scheduled for next week, with more bugfixes and optimizations.

Today I'll be looking at purging, and we're investigating save game issues, but if there’s a bug you could put at the top of the list, what would it be?

Since next week is Midsommar week, our next dev diary will be on June 26th. See you then.
 
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And Machine Gestalts are wildly undertuned.
Machine gestalts, are like the best non origin based government what are you on about? IDK why their early game alloys are an issue for you they produce 25% more alloys per fabricator then normal empires. And thankfully unlike hiveminds, you don't need to produce minerals to use as science upkeep.

Unity is the only important resource they are really lagging behind in at all, and there are multiple ways to address that in your setup. The actual nightmare parts are amenities output is garbage because for some reason it is the only freaking ascension set that doesn't make their mainline pop growth/enhancing job produce amenities.
 
Machine gestalts, are like the best non origin based government what are you on about? IDK why their early game alloys are an issue for you they produce 25% more alloys per fabricator then normal empires. And thankfully unlike hiveminds, you don't need to produce minerals to use as science upkeep.

Unity is the only important resource they are really lagging behind in at all, and there are multiple ways to address that in your setup. The actual nightmare parts are amenities output is garbage because for some reason it is the only freaking ascension set that doesn't make their mainline pop growth/enhancing job produce amenities.
They get the increased alloys because their pops cost alloys to make.
Assembly is also quite slow unless you're a rogue servitor or is using lubrication tanks.
 
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Assembly is also quite slow unless you're a rogue servitor or is using lubrication tanks.
You don't need nearly as many pops to grow though. Also you don't need lubrication tanks, Machines get to abuse using multiple multipliers. Robiticists job efficiency + machine assembly speed plus multiplicative councilor bonus goes brrr. Just plop down pop building worlds if you need them. Unlike a normal species you need 300 pops to make a max growth world not 2500.

They get the increased alloys because their pops cost alloys to make.
No individualist machines who have the same cost do not have this bonus output. The machine only change is -1 food per farmer and +1 energy per technician. Honestly if you want to complain about some aspect of machine costs it is that the building upkeep shouldn't be 8 energy for the level 2 its dumb it produces a job it doesn't need high upkeep cost also.
 
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Another week of beta-testing, another small writeup on the game’s status.
  • Seasonal Dormancy. I think this is what changes Civilians from fun mechanic into overpowered nightmare. It does require a nerf, -75% on Civilians is too much and makes Day1 Utopian Abundance too abusable.
  • Worker Cooperative. I love Mutual Aid and I kinda wish to be no longer forced to pick this civic every game. Maybe add something like Raw Materials trade policy available to everyone instead? Relying on Trade for your base resource economy is fun - having it locked behind Civic is annoying.
  • Edicts: at first I loved the change to how cost gets calculated. Still, I feel new values are not adjusted to Charismatic spam, free 50 Edict Fund in multiple traditions and Executive Vigor.
  • Overall economy. It quickly spirals into insanity. While synergies are nice, it is very easy to achieve insane outputs on the planets. Also: capital efficiency techs.
  • Research. I feel that early research buildings giving access to flat research output without any upkeep increase are too powerful. Meanwhile Tiers 2&3 are useless as they add SR upkeep per Researcher.
  • Bureucrats: they still feel awful. Look at level of support that Bureucrats and Researchers get. Buildings, Designation, Tradition - it’s all skewed toward Researchers.
  • Buildings. They often feel weird and purposeless. They get random modifiers attached to upgrades which is a bit weird. It seems that buildings just don’t really fit the equation with buildings & zones. I believe they need a complete overhaul and new purpose.
  • Technology. While game lost most of its economy balance the main thing that blocks me in the progress is tech. Not research as it’s easy to rush it - but tech selection. Not rolling some of the core technologies makes you die. Ascensions, Remnants’ Ecumenopolis are usually blocked by rolling the tech naturally. Also, there are probably some weird relations between techs that I don’t understand.
  • Corporations: Branch Office mechanic is still not exciting. I am playing Megacorp for its Civics and flavor, not Branch Offices.
 
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We've been considering it since it could simplify some of that and clean up some edge cases, but we decided against doing so right now because it would dramatically change their feel. Everything being worked by the planet itself feels right for Wilderness, but not necessarily for Virtuality.
You know, if anything I feel like it'd work better for Nanite ascension. It'd certainly help it feel more like a nanite swarm if Nanite worlds worked all their own jobs. Cause as it currently stands, in no way does it really feel like your population has been reshaped as nanomachines.

EDIT: You know, as long as I'm on the subject, nanite swarmers are weird. They're so fragile that the best way to use them is as carriers, which feels against their intended role as "cheap disposable swarm units", but for how expensive they are that's really the only way you can use them at all.
 
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If you're running into reproduceable out of sync issues, you can help us out a lot by having the host add these startup parameters to their game:
-randomlog -randomlog_stack=5 -randomlog_frames=3

Then, if you run into an Out of Sync, please post in the Bug Report forum and give us the the save, the Host's OOS logs, and the OOS logs from at least one of the clients that the popup mentioned. (OOS logs can be found in Documents\Paradox Interactive\Stellaris\oos near your save games.) Any details you can provide about what you were doing at the time is also helpful.

This setting has some significant performance implications (which is why it's not on by default), but if you're running into OOSes reliably, it can really help us track them down.
Is there any point reporting OOSes when you play modded? (I play with a friend, except we can't because our game has out of sync'd within a day of resuming for several patches now - changing with a few patches - but we use mods, so we haven't been reporting them)
 
Is there any point reporting OOSes when you play modded? (I play with a friend, except we can't because our game has out of sync'd within a day of resuming for several patches now - changing with a few patches - but we use mods, so we haven't been reporting them)
First You should try if those oos happens without mods ;) then You know if there is a point
 
Unlike a normal species you need 300 pops to make a max growth world not 2500
Except "max growth" here is 5 (with Mass Produced + Recycled), whereas organics can easily and costlessly unity rush Biomorphosis and give Genomics Labs + Medical 8 assembly in 400 jobs, as quickly as 10 years in (Overtuned) and easily within 20...plus, y'know, their natural growth. Machines have to pay out the nose for unity.

Worker Cooperative. I love Mutual Aid and I kinda wish to be no longer forced to pick this civic every game.
How the turntables turn.

Meanwhile Tiers 2&3 are useless as they add SR upkeep per Researcher.
Strategic Resources are practically free though, once you've got the tech.
 
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Are these values shown ingame at all? Nice to not need to see a random forum post to know this.
The 2500 is not shown anywhere, the 300 is just the amount of replicators that a planet has at the start of the game. If you have lubrication tanks you "need" 400 pops to maximize growth/assembly.
 
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The 2500 is not shown anywhere, the 300 is just the amount of replicators that a planet has at the start of the game. If you have lubrication tanks you "need" 400 pops to maximize growth/assembly.
The 2500 for regular empires is an approximation the forum has come up with by examining how the logistical growth curve works and it's based on an assumption about typical planet carrying capacity. The game does tell you what the capacity is on a planet (although it is somewhat buried), but nothing about what this means for pop growth, beyond a generic statement in the pop growth tooltip about balancing pops against capacity.

Edit: reading comprehension fail. You did answer the question. I'm just elaborating.
 
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Also, can we finally fix the Distribute Luxury Goods planetary decision? I believe it uses singular pops for its calculations as even for smallest planets it can cost 1k+ Consumer Goods to activate.
Sir, these are Luxury Goods. There are many other planetary decisions available to empires of your means. Might I suggest "Declare Population Controls"?
 
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Another week of beta-testing, another small writeup on the game’s status.
  • Seasonal Dormancy. I think this is what changes Civilians from fun mechanic into overpowered nightmare. It does require a nerf, -75% on Civilians is too much and makes Day1 Utopian Abundance too abusable.
The concept of "Dormancy" is somewhat broken in this trait. It should probably be called "Seasonal Somnambulism", otherwise I can't explain why the "Dormancy" population is working at full capacity.

It would make sense if the unemployed and civilian population also received some kind of penalty to work efficiency (maybe it's worth starting with a not too big penalty, like 33%), so as not to make it useless and gradually increase this penalty as needed. At the same time, it would be possible to remove the stu... hm... "not smart" limit on the number of Centers of Guidance.
 
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Something I would love to see fixed is species chosen for leader pool. Pre-4.0 I believe the way it worked is a random pop would be rolled from the population and this pop's species would be used to generate the new leader. This would mean if your main species was 95% of the population and a xeno species was 5% then 95% of the leader pool would be your main species.

The way it seems to be working in 4.X is a random pop GROUP is chosen. The number of pops in the group and it's % of the total population seems to be ignored. With the way pop groups work a xeno species that's 5% of the total population could have 30% of the total # of pop groups resulting in the Xeno species being 30% of your leader pool. I'm not sure if that's how it's working but I have observed Xeno's taking up far more of my leader pool refreshes than they should(I had 2 xeno species that combined were less than 10% of my total population but the 2 xeno species combined to take up ~60% of my leader pool every refresh).

I actually got so annoyed I modded it to just use the main species til you fix it and I forgot til I decided to do an assimilator game for a change up and wondered why I had no cybernetic leaders *sigh*
 
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The concept of "Dormancy" is somewhat broken in this trait. It should probably be called "Seasonal Somnambulism", otherwise I can't explain why the "Dormancy" population is working at full capacity.

It would make sense if the unemployed and civilian population also received some kind of penalty to work efficiency (maybe it's worth starting with a not too big penalty, like 33%), so as not to make it useless and gradually increase this penalty as needed. At the same time, it would be possible to remove the stu... hm... "not smart" limit on the number of Centers of Guidance.
For Centers of Guidance I’d rather move Research from Civilians to the civic’s effects or councilor.
 
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Sir, these are Luxury Goods. There are many other planetary decisions available to empires of your means. Might I suggest "Declare Population Controls"?
I play Egalitarian mostly and having to splurge 2k Consumer Goods on dingy planet with 200 pops
Something I would love to see fixed is species chosen for leader pool. Pre-4.0 I believe the way it worked is a random pop would be rolled from the population and this pop's species would be used to generate the new leader. This would mean if your main species was 95% of the population and a xeno species was 5% then 95% of the leader pool would be your main species.

The way it seems to be working in 4.X is a random pop GROUP is chosen. The number of pops in the group and it's % of the total population seems to be ignored. With the way pop groups work a xeno species that's 5% of the total population could have 30% of the total # of pop groups resulting in the Xeno species being 30% of your leader pool. I'm not sure if that's how it's working but I have observed Xeno's taking up far more of my leader pool refreshes than they should(I had 2 xeno species that combined were less than 10% of my total population but the 2 xeno species combined to take up ~60% of my leader pool every refresh).

I actually got so annoyed I modded it to just use the main species til you fix it and I forgot til I decided to do an assimilator game for a change up and wondered why I had no cybernetic leaders *sigh*
For me it looks completely different. Despite having three ethics I see that 80% of leaders come from one of them (with the highest support) which makes tuning of the council difficult at times.
 
if there’s a bug you could put at the top of the list, what would it be?

I'm a little late to the party but my god, it's the pop job assignment not working. Right now, any empire that relies on different pops doing different things is just busted. Slavery is useless because the slaves don't get prioritized over citizens, so you don't benefit from their bonuses or lowered consumer goods costs. Multiculturalism and origins like syncretic are useless because the pops won't assign themselves based on their efficiency bonuses, and you'll end up getting pops awful for jobs filling roles and nerfing your output.

It has such a huge impact on so many different builds there's probably more I'm not even thinking of at this moment, I'm having to wait to play a bunch of different empires I really want to try out because right now they just won't be able to function.
 
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I said it before and I will saying this.
Slaves / free pops jobs priority should be based also on living standards.
First priority should have citizens with standards lower than social welfare, then slaves (doesn't matter their standards), and last priority for citizens with standards: social welfare and utopian abundance.
With few special cases like domestic servitude and entertainers jobs or maybe academic privilege.
 
First priority should have citizens with standards lower than social welfare, then slaves (doesn't matter their standards),
Why should "poor (ingroup)" have priority over "enslaved (outgroup)" when assigning jobs?
 
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Why should "poor (ingroup)" have priority over "enslaved (outgroup)" when assigning jobs?
In ancient Athens, "citizenship" meant that you could spend your days doing politics, gymnasium (academics), and military service, while leaving labor to slaves and metics. It makes perfect sense - citizens should get higher living standards, more political power, and more labor mobility. Slaves and residents should have lower upkeep and do more work.
 
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