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Byzantium vs Eastern Roman Empire?

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Tercio Soldier said:
I'm not speaking about claims. The Pope did de facto rule Rome, that is a fact. The Palailogos claim to power can also be disputed, but they did rule the empire.
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OK, so if you rule some place you can proclaim someone emperor of it without giving them control of it and this should be taken seriously? Why don’t you say Catholic Church is the Roman Empire it would probably make more sense with this argumentation. But this can also be turned around: When Byzantines conquered Rome in the 6th century they made an integral part of their empire, when HRE took it in the 16th century they sacked and left. Which one feels more like Romans retaking their homeland? I could be wrong, but I am afraid that the Romans of the city would Rome of that time would side with the Byzaboos and say that these invaders were in fact not Romans, but Germanic barbarians.
 
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P.Quirinius said:
OK, so if you rule some place you can proclaim someone emperor of it without giving them control of it and this should be taken seriously? Why don’t you say Catholic Church is the Roman Empire it would probably make more sense with this argumentation. But this can also be turned around: When Byzantines conquered Rome in the 6th century they made an integral part of their empire, when HRE took it in the 16th century they sacked and left. Which one feels more like Romans retaking their homeland? I could be wrong, but I am affrayed that the Romans of the city would Rome of that time would side with the Byzaboos and say that these invaders were in fact not Romans, but Germanic barbarians.
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First of all, Charles V deeply apologized to the Pope and was horrified by what his troops did, it wasn't his decision. Secondly, Justinian's stupid conquests devastated not only Rome but the whole Italy and served no purpose, because the Ostrogothic kings recognized the authority of Constantinople. Thirdly, I didn't say the HRE was the Roman Empire, just that it derived its authority from the Pope.
 
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P.Quirinius said:
OK, so if you rule some place you can proclaim someone emperor of it without giving them control of it and this should be taken seriously? Why don’t you say Catholic Church is the Roman Empire it would probably make more sense with this argumentation. But this can also be turned around: When Byzantines conquered Rome in the 6th century they made an integral part of their empire, when HRE took it in the 16th century they sacked and left. Which one feels more like Romans retaking their homeland? I could be wrong, but I am affrayed that the Romans of the city would Rome of that time would side with the Byzaboos and say that these invaders were in fact not Romans, but Germanic barbarians.
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minor-spelling-mistake.gif
 
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ArVass said:
Bold of you to assume that I think either empire could be called The Roman Empire lmao.

Also, a heads up - Gauls, Iberians, Carthaginians etc. didn't exist for a long long time by the 14th century, which is the focus of this thread.
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So you don't think the western part of the Roman Empire under Honorius could be called the Roman Empire if the East fell? Interesting.
Otherwise, why are non-Latin ethnicities within the Roman Empire OK until the 5th century but not OK in the 14th century?
 
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Superdark33 said:
For some reason when "Germanics" are brought up, byzboos tend to ignore anything you say and start doing weird larping about "barbarians" or whatnot.
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When it comes to HRE it's just this - Germanics larping as Romans. Unpopular opinion, especially among Germans, I know, but that's the truth, really. Nothing new, since Germanic nobility was copying Roman style since they arrived in WRE.
For all petty kinglets that existed after WRE fall - "Roman Empire" was the peakest peak of what an "Empire" is. No surprise, really, can't blame them, so it's no surprise they wanted to bask in such glory themselves, even if they were just Germanic tribesmen from the north, who had no part in creating the Roman glory and just were fortunate enough to settle among its ruins.

ArVass said:
Bold of you to assume that I think either empire could be called The Roman Empire lmao.

Also, a heads up - Gauls, Iberians, Carthaginians etc. didn't exist for a long long time by the 14th century, which is the focus of this thread.
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You don't think the Roman Empire could be called "Roman Empire"? That's... so open minded, unorthodox and bold.

Roman Empire of Augustus was inhabited by Romans, Gauls, Germans, Carthaginians, Iberians, Hellenes, Egyptians and so on and so on. And in no way the existence of such minorities (which, in turn, together were the majority of empire's inhabitants) diminished the "Romanness of the Roman Empire".

I know, I know, you thought it was fun to mention "Greeks, Slavs, Albanians and so on" when someone mentioned Romans, but that's a common mistake stemming from (apparently) not realising that the original Roman Empire still existed in the XIV century.
 
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It's crazy how many people in this thread require citizens of the Roman Empire to speak Latin in order to be legit, Senate-approved Romans instead of some completely un-Roman Greek clowns.
Just wait till they find out that only 40% of Ireland's population can speak Gaelic to some extent, with less than 100 000 being fully native Irish language speakers.
en.wikipedia.org

Status of the Irish language - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I guess in HOI4 Ireland should be given a more accurate name that reflects the language change, the self-identity of the country's citizens themselves be damned. Perhaps England? Republic of the English?
 
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Tercio Soldier said:
First of all, Charles V deeply apologized to the Pope and was horrified by what his troops did, it wasn't his decision. Secondly, Justinian's stupid conquests devastated not only Rome but the whole Italy and served no purpose, because the Ostrogothic kings recognized the authority of Constantinople. Thirdly, I didn't say the HRE was the Roman Empire, just that it derived its authority from the Pope.
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Justinians conquests are often disapproved of and Justinian himself had to face a strong domestic opposition and in some respects feels like he ruined the entire empire not only Italy, but let's not forget there was also Justinian's plague and 536 so not all destruction can be blamed on his warmongering. But this is not about who did the right thing. Sorry, for misunderstanding your intentions, there is a lot of moderate people in this thread, but it is hard to keep track of what each person things, I have also been writing too much and too quickly recently and misunderstood you at least at one point.
Baphomet enjoyer said:
View attachment 1324876
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Wow that's kind of rude, but also thanks, I have been struggling with writing this word a lot, so hopefully I will now remember.
 
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IlikeTrains said:
It's crazy how many people in this thread require citizens of the Roman Empire to speak Latin in order to be legit, Senate-approved Romans instead of some completely un-Roman Greek clowns.
Just wait till they find out that only 40% of Ireland's population can speak Gaelic to some extent, with less than 100 000 being fully native Irish language speakers.
en.wikipedia.org

Status of the Irish language - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I guess in HOI4 Ireland should be given a more accurate name that reflects the language change, the self-identity of the country's citizens themselves be damned. Perhaps England? Republic of the English?
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Ireland is the true heir of the British empire!
 
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