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Merging AGCEEP with Europa Portugalis

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unmerged(75851)

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May 8, 2007
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I've tried both mods and I really like the historical flavor of AGCEEP. But I also like the added difficulty of Portugalis.

That being said.... why not combine the best of both worlds and try to merge the two together? Has anyone ever thought about this or considered this?
 
I doubt that guys from the HC would ever agree to such idea. At least from their complaints in regards to the "cheating events" that EP gives to the AI.
 
Third Angel said:
Since IDLF left the AGCEEP to build his own mod precisely because AI cheating events were disapproved by almost all other modders here, I don't see that happening.
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Indeed. That said, a lot of content has actually been brought back from the EP into the AGCEEP.
 
Indeed it has, since I've done quite a bit of it myself. There's quite a bit to admire in EP, although IDLF has, according to my readings, a profound misunderstanding of many of Portugal's interactions with the East Africans and Indians. I mean giving Portugal various Indian cultures?:confused: That's a gross distortion of Portuguese India's value to the crown.
 
MnM said:
I've tried both mods and I really like the historical flavor of AGCEEP. But I also like the added difficulty of Portugalis.

That being said.... why not combine the best of both worlds and try to merge the two together? Has anyone ever thought about this or considered this?
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just becouse the ai is given extra cheating bonuses via ai events , does not mean that the difficulty is "increased" but rather just ilogical ( troops poping from nowhere, etc).

once anyone see how the eu2 logarithms work there is no such think as dificulty anymore, wich is technically defined by the settings at start( less or more money, bb decreases faster or slower =determains how ai behaves towards human). there are a few more "details" as regarding "dificulty" but they more of a flavour or very trivial.
 
beregic said:
just becouse the ai is given extra cheating bonuses via ai events , does not mean that the difficulty is "increased" but rather just ilogical ( troops poping from nowhere, etc).

once anyone see how the eu2 logarithms work there is no such think as dificulty anymore, wich is technically defined by the settings at start( less or more money, bb decreases faster or slower =determains how ai behaves towards human). there are a few more "details" as regarding "dificulty" but they more of a flavour or very trivial.
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as well as, the higher the difficulty level, more wars will be triggered by far less negative relations points from one state with another
 
sturmvogel said:
Indeed it has, since I've done quite a bit of it myself. There's quite a bit to admire in EP, although IDLF has, according to my readings, a profound misunderstanding of many of Portugal's interactions with the East Africans and Indians. I mean giving Portugal various Indian cultures?:confused: That's a gross distortion of Portuguese India's value to the crown.
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Actually, I believe he gave them indian cultures so as to boost Portugal's power. It wasn't because he believed Portugal had those cultures but rather that he put a bigger priority on using game mechanisms that would help with the big overall picture (Portugal establishing a "strong" trading empire) and didn't sweat the "smaller" details so much.
 
Jop, the events also gave the AI some ubber DP sliders. Kinda needed, or their morale would suck - the AI does not move DP sliders, except via events.

I mean giving Portugal various Indian cultures? That's a gross distortion of Portuguese India's value to the crown.
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Well, it actually does, offend me in a way, the way he added all these cultures.
 
MnM said:
Yes, that does make sense.

I wonder if he gives the AI events to improve quality and offensive? (then later have it switch back to defensive) That'd be a good idea I think.
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As BurningEGO said, yes. He maximizes the sliders for every AI. He also gives them extra cash, free manus, free tax collectors, bb drops, stability increase...etc.
 
I don't see why it's offensive. I mean the game you play lets you slaughter indians and put foreign religions through inquisitions to force them to worship your god or gods.


His adding of an accepted culture is simply a means of making the A.I. stronger and making it behave strongly and more efficiently than it otherwise would normally. And his adjusting the A.I.'s sliders? Great idea too, if the A.I.'s not smart enough to pick great slider choices then why not pick them for the A.I. so that the A.I. will have more advantages to compete with an intrinsically more intelligent human player?
 
MnM said:
His adding of an accepted culture is simply a means of making the A.I. stronger and making it behave strongly and more efficiently than it otherwise would normally. And his adjusting the A.I.'s sliders? Great idea too, if the A.I.'s not smart enough to pick great slider choices then why not pick them for the A.I. so that the A.I. will have more advantages to compete with an intrinsically more intelligent human player?
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Because we do sweat the small historical details.
 
MnM said:
I don't see why it's offensive. I mean the game you play lets you slaughter indians and put foreign religions through inquisitions to force them to worship your god or gods.


His adding of an accepted culture is simply a means of making the A.I. stronger and making it behave strongly and more efficiently than it otherwise would normally. And his adjusting the A.I.'s sliders? Great idea too, if the A.I.'s not smart enough to pick great slider choices then why not pick them for the A.I. so that the A.I. will have more advantages to compete with an intrinsically more intelligent human player?
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i agree with garbon's post , besides because the AI does not move sliders might be a time to set a new "AI only" random folder, and work from there.
 
I don't see why it's offensive. I mean the game you play lets you slaughter indians and put foreign religions through inquisitions to force them to worship your god or gods.
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I could tell you why but i believe i would be, lets say, crossing the forum rules a bit. I tend to be a bit... too conservative, when it comes to these kind of comparisons... if you know what i mean.

Anyway, why dont you guys include an option in AGCEEP, with, say, Super AI - on/off. That way everyone would be happy.

Oh and please, dont say you care about these minor details like Portugal having some crap indian culture if you even bother creating fantasy events, like those for byzantium. ;)
 
BurningEGO said:
Anyway, why dont you guys include an option in AGCEEP, with, say, Super AI - on/off. That way everyone would be happy.
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To do would be quite an effort. After all, we'd have to implement them and then test them out as the mod changes (it wouldn't make sense to include these super AI events if we didn't maintain them to make sure history proceded accordingly :D). I don't really have that much interest in running two mods in parallel (which is sort of what it would be like).

BurningEGO said:
Oh and please, dont say you care about these minor details like Portugal having some crap indian culture if you even bother creating fantasy events, like those for byzantium. ;)
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Except that we don't. The Byzantine fantasy sequences aren't even part of the main mod and are not maintained by any of the main modders.;)
 
Yes, Fantasy Byzantium is a separate scenario that is just supported because it was already there but could have been removed from the core AGCEEP.

In fact, I'm still waiting for enhanced Triumphant Byzantium final version.

And I agree with Garbon about the two parallel mods a super AI option would create. And maintenance could become a nightmare.
 
Garbon said:
Actually, I believe he gave them indian cultures so as to boost Portugal's power. It wasn't because he believed Portugal had those cultures but rather that he put a bigger priority on using game mechanisms that would help with the big overall picture (Portugal establishing a "strong" trading empire) and didn't sweat the "smaller" details so much.
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Probably so, but Portugal's trading empire was actually quite weak and only lasted as long as it did because of a lack of peer competitors during the 1500s. Once the English, Dutch, Omanis and Mughals got their acts together during the 1600s the Portuguese were pretty quickly marginalized, other than Brazil, as they simply couldn't compete. Portugal's Indian Ocean possessions were a net drain on the empire since most revenues were siphoned off by various governors and general corruption.
 
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