1.05c New (?) bugs list

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Playing trice Italy in the 1936 scenario, I noticed the following facts:

1) When Italy is neutral, and Allied declare war to it, the player has no advice of this fact, he has to discover the war status by himself (usually, he will notice that his convoys are attacked).

2) The AI is very vulnerable to encirclements. It is very easy for a player to encircle whole army groups, for AI doesn’t see the threat.

3) On the other hand, there is something else that doesn’t work with encirclements. I have a front line against France on the natural border. I land many divisions in Marseilles, and I quickly capture Lyon and Besancon, thus closing the enemy armies in the pocket Toulon-Grenoble. They still have a shore and port to be supplied (Marseilles), thus I block the sea with most of my Navy.
Well, after some eight months of such a siege, the trapped French are still fully supplied, despite there isn’t any evidence of convoys going to Marseilles.

4) Finally, I attempted to play a neutral game, to have Italy preparing its force in peace, like it was. But this is impossible, for rough material reserves go away in some six months, thus I must invade some peaceful nation, or see my IC fall soon to a ridicolous level. Note that I attempted to purchase the materials on the market, but prices were so high, that I expended quickly even my largest reserve (that of coal), without success.

 

[unmerged(23946)]

1.) Don't know anything about that
2.) The AI not knowing that it's encircled sounds more like a problem with the AI in general and not a 1.05c specific bug.
3.) You're probably not sinking all of the convoy's to Marseilles. The only way to make sure that no convoys reach Marseilles is to conquer the rest of Southern France, Gibraltar, and the Suez canal.
4.) I've never had problems with resources as Italy. Having low resources isn't a bug. Do you have any conversion techs? Are you at war? When at war you receive only a fraction of your traded resources. If your playing at any level below hard though, I can see why your resources to dwindle. You get more ICs in anything below VH and you therefore require more resources.

 

[Vulture]

Aye not really bugs per se if you ask me... Warchaser has it mostly right.
On 4: if you expand your IC base, you'll also use more resources. So don't overexpand if you can't fund it

 

[unmerged(13008)]

2) The AI is very vulnerable to encirclements. It is very easy for a player to encircle whole army groups, for AI doesn’t see the threat.

I subject on that. I rather think it is pretty hard to encircle certain units.
Of course slow army groups without punch are very easy to encircle. Like in Yugoslavia or France.
But on the russian front, with almost same Tanktechnology, it is a gamble to circle. Of course I want it, but often enough I end up cut off myself.
God save the "Save Button"

3) On the other hand, there is something else that doesn’t work with encirclements. I have a front line against France on the natural border. I land many divisions in Marseilles, and I quickly capture Lyon and Besancon, thus closing the enemy armies in the pocket Toulon-Grenoble. They still have a shore and port to be supplied (Marseilles), thus I block the sea with most of my Navy.
Well, after some eight months of such a siege, the trapped French are still fully supplied, despite there isn’t any evidence of convoys going to Marseilles.

To make sure about convois: Save, load as France.
Maybe he is still supplying.

4) Finally, I attempted to play a neutral game, to have Italy preparing its force in peace, like it was. But this is impossible, for rough material reserves go away in some six months, thus I must invade some peaceful nation, or see my IC fall soon to a ridicolous level. Note that I attempted to purchase the materials on the market, but prices were so high, that I expended quickly even my largest reserve (that of coal), without success.

Italy doesn´t have the natural ressources like Russia or USA.
But there is a way to get the best trades possible, as long as you stay out of war.

On the very 1st Day of your game, state which trades you would want to do.
DON´T trade 300:100!!! Do three times 99:33. Or even smaller parts.

Worldmarket will supply in the following order:
Best Bidder, 1st Bidder, but if the country doesn´t have 100 rubber, it won´t help you to be the best or first.
Small portions will work even for the smallest countries, which produce Oil & Rubber.

 

[Vulture]

Correct on the WM thingie... It's a very delicate thing sometimes

 

[unmerged(16045)]

1.) Don't know anything about that.

What the devil means this? I'm reporting a bug: if that would be known, it would already had been fixed! The fact is exactly as I reported it, and it happened me in all three the games, being Italy still neutral or already in the Axis.

2.) The AI not knowing that it's encircled sounds more like a problem with the AI in general and not a 1.05c specific bug.

Yes, it is. But where should I report such problems, if not here?

3.) You're probably not sinking all of the convoy's to Marseilles. The only way to make sure that no convoys reach Marseilles is to conquer the rest of Southern France, Gibraltar, and the Suez canal.

If I park all of my navy in front of a province, I expect no enemy ship can pass through. But in eight months of such a blockade, I made no sinkings at all, nor I had any news about enemy convoys. Thus, I must suppose such convoys didn't exits at all. All the contrary, the French were fully supplied. Why?

4.) I've never had problems with resources as Italy. Having low resources isn't a bug. Do you have any conversion techs? Are you at war? When at war you receive only a fraction of your traded resources. If your playing at any level below hard though, I can see why your resources to dwindle. You get more ICs in anything below VH and you therefore require more resources.

I tried to prepare my forces, both being at war with Ethiopia only, or being at peace with everybody. But in both cases, my resource reserves went down in a few months. When then I invaded enemy provinces, sitauation quickly improved, because I gained the full production of those provinces, in front of but a small fraction (very, very small, indeed ) of of its ICs. Now, HOI is a wargame, but it is also a simulation. To force a player to start wars is not realistic.

 

[unmerged(16045)]

I subject on that. I rather think it is pretty hard to encircle certain units.
Of course slow army groups without punch are very easy to encircle. Like in Yugoslavia or France.
But on the russian front, with almost same Tanktechnology, it is a gamble to circle. Of course I want it, but often enough I end up cut off myself.
God save the "Save Button"

Well, what about British forces? I encircled some 12 of their divisions in East Africa (one armored!), by using infantry and cavalry! I had the strong impression that AI simply didn't guess what I was doing.

To make sure about convois: Save, load as France.
Maybe he is still supplying.

OK, I'll try. But it shouldn't be on supply at all, seen the kind of blockade I made.

Italy doesn´t have the natural ressources like Russia or USA.
But there is a way to get the best trades possible, as long as you stay out of war.

On the very 1st Day of your game, state which trades you would want to do.
DON´T trade 300:100!!! Do three times 99:33. Or even smaller parts.

Worldmarket will supply in the following order:
Best Bidder, 1st Bidder, but if the country doesn´t have 100 rubber, it won´t help you to be the best or first.
Small portions will work even for the smallest countries, which produce Oil & Rubber.

I'll try this move also. But my 300 coal units/day where anyway lost. Is it possible I expended them witout a return?

 

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It's the honest to god truth, Italy can survive without running out of resources if you tech rush all the conversion techs, annex Ethiopia in a month then stay at peace, and trade on the WM. Crappy AI isn't a bug. If it was, then I'd say pretty much all RTS games are bugged.

 

[Vulture]

It's the honest to god truth, Italy can survive without running out of resources if you tech rush all the conversion techs, annex Ethiopia in a month then stay at peace, and trade on the WM. Crappy AI isn't a bug. If it was, then I'd say pretty much all RTS games are bugged.

 

[unmerged(16045)]

Further problems

Again problems with encirclements, involving supplies misteriously reaching trapped armies.
I’m playing a new game, 1939 scenario, Italy as usual. The Soviets break southern german front in USSR and penetrate deep in Romania, Hunagary, Slovacchia, up to the doors of Wien, like a long spear. My intervention stops them there, then my armies move fast eastwards, and finally I cut off the soviets on Danube and Black Sea shore: a huge pocket, enclosing Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria, is made: some 40-60 enemy divisions, perhaps even more, are trapped. The thing seem to be finished.
All the contrary, with an incredible vitality, the Soviets continue the fight. :wacko: They breack the pocket three times on the Black Sea shores; thus, despite every time they are trapped again in just a few weeks, nothing strange they have the time to receive supplies. But finally that way is definitevely closed. Then, after a long still (months), they break again, this time on Adriatic shores. Well, the Mediterranean Sea is a private lake of Axis: the three straits are in italian or german hands, there aren’t at all any Allied shores left inside. No allied ships at all can be there. But the Soviets are again fully supplied! Why?

I tried to charge the same game as Soviet, to see from where those supplies came from, but apparently this is impossible an option. Could please someone verify how such a thing can happen? I suppose I might send the saved game as e_mail, if necessary.

Furthermore, in the same game, at a certain point I noticed that the Soviets, once closed in the pocket, had free passage across neutral Turkey, and had started escaping from Istambul. Thus I declared war to Turkey, and quickly invaded it, closing again the pocket.
Disappointingly, yet, the first provinces I captured, as my attack started from german-controlled provinces, were under german control. :wacko: I had thus to load my army on the Navy and land it elsewere in Turkey, in order having conquered provinces under italian control.
When, finally, I annexed Turkey, the three german-controlled provinces remained under german control.
Now, I don’t think that game’s interpretation of the events in this case was right and beliveable. It was Italy to declare war to Turkey. Yes Germany was in the same allegiance, but the operation was started and accomplished by italian troops, without any german help: the captured provinces should have been under italian control, despite the attack started from german-controlled area.

 

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Before you annexed Turkey Russia had military access and was able to get supplies to its troops through any Turkish provinces. Did they have supplies after you annexed turkey and conquered all provinces next to the coast?

 

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Before you annexed Turkey Russia had military access and was able to get supplies to its troops through any Turkish provinces. Did they have supplies after you annexed turkey and conquered all provinces next to the coast?

Yes, they had as soon as they broke to the yuogoslavian shores. Despite no allied convoys could exist in Mediterraneum Sea. :wacko:

 

[unmerged(29616)]

I am surprised to read that Italy has lack of resources...

I played Italy in several games (with 1.05c and 1.06, both with C.O.R.E.) and each time I had plenty of resources. Like, nearly 90.000 for each. The only limitation to my production was IC. It was even a bit boring, beacuse I did not even have the incentive to conquer any resource-rich provinces.

So I was thinking if there is a bug, or at least an imbalance, that gives too many resources...?

 

[Tamerlan]

Euh... If you complain about 1.05c why don't you play 1.06 ? I mean 1.05c is certainly not going to be debugged anymore, would be already cool to get 1.06 corrected...

EDIT: Old thread.

 

[gzav]

Yep, and not needed anymore.