1.08 Beta6

[Mr_B0narpte]

Japan tends to be underpowered compared to the USA.

I'd recommend increasing both the base IC of Japan and USA, but the USA far more to increase the historical reality of it really being the 'Arsenal of Democracy'.

japan does also need a few ic since the Kure and Sasebo naval arsenals seems to have been ignored, located in the hiroshima and fukuoka province (1188 & 1190) giving the provinces a boost to 8 ic each (from 4 to 8) should be sufficient

I don't know about specific areas and their industries but if we want to be really historical the USA should start with a much bigger base IC. It is completely ahistorical that Germany can easily get an IC on par with the USA after the fall of France (if not earlier). Once at war the USA outproduced Germany on virtually all accounts (tanks, aircraft, armaments etc).

 

[Blecky]

I'd recommend increasing both the base IC of Japan and USA, but the USA far more to increase the historical reality of it really being the 'Arsenal of Democracy'.
I don't know about specific areas and their industries but if we want to be really historical the USA should start with a much bigger base IC. It is completely ahistorical that Germany can easily get an IC on par with the USA after the fall of France (if not earlier). Once at war the USA outproduced Germany on virtually all accounts (tanks, aircraft, armaments etc).

They still do IMO. Before the war starts they gradually increase their output according to their state of readiness (rearmament etc.). When at war they have much more IC available than GER.

Furthermore using full Free Market lets them produce their units faster (and cheaper, bigger gearing bonus) than GER, so in effect they actually produce more units than GER, even if they had the same base IC.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

They still do IMO. Before the war starts they gradually increase their output according to their state of readiness (rearmament etc.). When at war they have much more IC available than GER.

Furthermore using full Free Market lets them produce their units faster (and cheaper, bigger gearing bonus) than GER, so in effect they actually produce more units than GER, even if they had the same base IC.

True, I didn't take into account the free market bonuses, but at times US production was 3 times that of Germany's. Does anyone know if the USA mass-industrialised from 1936-1941 or was most of the industry it used during the war already in place in 1936?

 

[Pang Bingxun]

How exactly do you define "outproduce" or "production was 3 times"? If germany has to use high amounts of ic into supplies, unit repairs, infra reapairs etc., than the effective ic spent on production of the usa can easily be ten times the amount of germany. And germany loses 150 ic soon due to rareness of rares and strategic bombardement increases that even further.

 

[Blecky]

True, I didn't take into account the free market bonuses, but at times US production was 3 times that of Germany's. Does anyone know if the USA mass-industrialised from 1936-1941 or was most of the industry it used during the war already in place in 1936?

The recession of 1929 still lingered on until the end of the 1930ies. They had to rebuild their industry as many enterprises had gone bancrupt during those years.

Most of their output (at least until 1940) was directed at consumer goods (and increasing IC), so only little was available for military production. This fact is shown more clearly in the way CORE has modeled this development.

 

[mcganyol]

and don't neglect the fact, that usa shouldn't face germany alone.
basically it's a usa+uk+chi+su vs ger+ita+jap game (most of the times) what is already 630ic vs 370ic (36scen, germany counted with aus+cze). not to mention manpower what is also in favor of allies at least 2:1 (with counting china even much more)
in fact i've never seen german ai "win" the game. to be honest i've never seen a multiplayer game ended with axis victory.
so maybe it's not 100% historically accurate but we dont need to unbalance the game even more.

imo japan should have some more base ic in 36scen (+20 or so), to be a real threat, both to pacific and the soviets (as they were irl).

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

How exactly do you define "outproduce" or "production was 3 times"? If germany has to use high amounts of ic into supplies, unit repairs, infra reapairs etc., than the effective ic spent on production of the usa can easily be ten times the amount of germany. And germany loses 150 ic soon due to rareness of rares and strategic bombardement increases that even further.

As in Germany produced around 7,000 tanks in 1942, the USA built 21,000.

The recession of 1929 still lingered on until the end of the 1930ies. They had to rebuild their industry as many enterprises had gone bancrupt during those years.

Most of their output (at least until 1940) was directed at consumer goods (and increasing IC), so only little was available for military production. This fact is shown more clearly in the way CORE has modeled this development.

and don't neglect the fact, that usa shouldn't face germany alone.
basically it's a usa+uk+chi+su vs ger+ita+jap game (most of the times) what is already 630ic vs 370ic (36scen, germany counted with aus+cze). not to mention manpower what is also in favor of allies at least 2:1 (with counting china even much more)
in fact i've never seen german ai "win" the game. to be honest i've never seen a multiplayer game ended with axis victory.
so maybe it's not 100% historically accurate but we dont need to unbalance the game even more.

imo japan should have some more base ic in 36scen (+20 or so), to be a real threat, both to pacific and the soviets (as they were irl).

Yeah this is all true and I agree with buffing up Japan and China while leaving the USA alone taking all these points into account now.

 

[Titan79]

(...) better add a picture for Brest-Litovsk. Also should be a level 1 fort there.

Gunman, take a look at the mod in my sig - I've made a picture for Brest-Litovsk as well (which, by the way, represents its fortress).

Feel free to add it to 1.08 if you want.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Guanxi clique
Guangzhou 8 ic, major development area for foreign investments, including the Guangdong Arsenal
Hainan, iron extrations
Jiangmen, Tungsten - 5 rare

I am experimenting with changes to china. I removed the early annexation of guangxi in the case of a war. I gave Guangdong only 6 ic but increased ic in Guilin and Nanning by 1 each. With a supply minister that is enough to supply the troops after the war. What i forget was the long time Guilin needs to increase the ic from 0 to 3 after it was taken. How about using change allegiancy? I am thinking of giving 100% of Guangxi airforce(no bases left), 100% of guangxi navy(no bases left) and 50% of Guangxi army of CHI after the war. Could this be considered suffiently plausible? What are possible downsides?

 

[Pang Bingxun]

What i forgot was the long time Guilin needs to increase the ic from 0 to 3 after it was taken.

I solved this by decreasing and increasing ic in two seperate events. This should repair the ic immediatly.

Here is a new set of changes. Maybe i could decrease the number of CHI Mountaineers. Maybe even to zero.

\ai\chc_1936.ai
		Jiangmen, Yucheng, Datong are now infra provs
		
\ai\chi_1936.ai
		Jiangmen, Yucheng, Datong are now infra provs
		
\ai\cgx_1936.ai
		Jiangmen is now infra prov
		
\ai\ita_1936.ai
		no double 5350 preference
		
\ai\sov_1936.ai
		infantry = 58 changed to 54
		armor = 8 changed to 12
		
\ai\switch\sov_build_land.ai
		infantry = 58 changed to 54
		armor = 8 changed to 12
		
\ai\switch\sov_build_standard.ai
		infantry = 47 changed to 43
		armor = 8 changed to 12
		
\config\privince_names.csv
		PROV628: Columbus changed to Cincinnati.
		
\db\building_costs.txt
		infra = { buildtime = 240 } changed to 120
		infra = { manpower = 1 } changed to 0.5
		infra = { size = 0.1 } changed to 0.05
		
\db\Province.csv
		1205: Beiping metal = 2 changed to 4
		1209: Datong has now 6 energy
		1213: Yuling has now 3 metal and 6 energy
		1276: Lanzhou metal = 1 changed to 3, energy = 6 changed to 12, rares = 1 changed to 3, Infra = 10% changed to 20%
		1317: Jiangmen has now 5 rares
		1321: Hainan has now 3 metal
		1327: Wenshan has now 2 metal
		1307: Kunming metal = 6 changed to 15; rares = 3 changed to 7
		1336: Chengdu rares = 2 changed to 3
		
\db\events\ai_cgx.txt
		27005: random = 1 changed to 30
		35548-35549: New event to repair ic after the war
		
\db\events\ai_ger.txt
		20561: germany builds now synthetic_oil
		
\db\events\AI_Infra_Chi.txt
		simplified chain of events
		
\db\events\AI_Inherit_Chi.txt
		7009: The Guangxi war leads no longer to annexation
		
\db\events\nationalist_china.txt
		27008: peace triggers now only if guangxi loses ground
		27009: peace event removes new guangxi cores
		4104: Increased resources by industry transfer
		4105, 4106, 4108: changed chain of events
		
\db\ministers\ministers_csa.csv
		573055: has now id 573056, all later ministers have higher id, too
		
\db\ministers\ministers_cgx.csv
		502004 Yu Hanmou is now military entrepreneur instead of Infantry Proponent
		
\scenarios\0_gc_1936.eug
		322-325 trades CHI with the 4 warlords deleted
		enddate = { year = 1954 month = january day = 0 } changed to 1964
		
\scenarios\1936\chi_36.inc
		removed ic from buildung queue, added infra
		
\scenarios\1936\cgx_36.inc
		Guangzhou ic = 4 changed to 6
		Guilin ic = 2 changed to 3
		Nanning ic = 0 changed to 1
		added cores
		removed ic from buildung queue, added infra
		
\scenarios\1936\csx_36.inc
		Beiping ic = 1 changed to 3
		Tianjin ic = 0 changed to 3
		Shijiazhuang ic = 0 changed to 1
		Jinan ic = 1 changed to 3
		Taiyuan ic = 1 changed to 3
		removed ic from buildung queue, added infra
		
\scenarios\1936\cxb_36.inc
		Golmud ic = 2 changed to 3
		
\scenarios\1936\cyn_36.inc
		Kunming ic = 2 changed to 5
		
\scenarios\1936\poland.inc
		Brest Litovsk has now landfort
		
\scenarios\1936\saudi.inc
		infra in queue adapted

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Maybe i could decrease the number of CHI Mountaineers. Maybe even to zero.

Setting Mountaineers to zero and adapting research appears to be an improvement. Here is the current front:

 

[Hister]

That's great! Now if it can remain like that (status quo) until Allies kick in that would be even better!

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Well it'd be even better if Japan could advance along the entire Chinese coast by 1939/40 without going too far inland. Once that has been achieved it should prepare for amphibious landings in Malaya, Philippines and the American Pacific islands as well a land invasion of British Burma possibly aided by amphibious landings on its coast.

 

[PB-DK]

I am experimenting with changes to china. I removed the early annexation of guangxi in the case of a war. I gave Guangdong only 6 ic but increased ic in Guilin and Nanning by 1 each. With a supply minister that is enough to supply the troops after the war. What i forget was the long time Guilin needs to increase the ic from 0 to 3 after it was taken. How about using change allegiancy? I am thinking of giving 100% of Guangxi airforce(no bases left), 100% of guangxi navy(no bases left) and 50% of Guangxi army of CHI after the war. Could this be considered suffiently plausible? What are possible downsides?

well for game balance, letting the warlord states (shanxi and guangxi primarily) get inherited if the united front event is active in 37 as a response to marco polo, is perhaps an acceptable solution to the chinese united front and then getting the CHC into the war as well though not allied to china would help divert troops from the japanese.

in the war between the guanxi clique and Chiang's nationalists in 36, the guanxi clique was pretty much defeated after chiang bribed the guanxi airforce to join him, so letting your proposed transferes happen would be a very good idea.

as as a small side notive, preventing the japanese from getting the xi'an province would also prevent them from reaching the inner core of the nationalists remaining ic, adding a few forts to the mountains around it would probably not be a bad idea in order to stop the japanese from getting a quick victory (and yes that region is full of forts, the concentration is around datong,taiyuang, shizuang in the shanxi area don't have my game running so spelling is off)

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Usually the japan ai does not have chances of a quick victory. As a matter of fact advances in the interior hurt them quite harsh. I added some forts, i deaktivated the infra events, added one persistent money into supply event and added some infras in the building queue. One possible result is that japan advances farer than intended. But that hurts them so much that they cannot reinforce their troops completely. After japan suffers sufficient big losses CHI can drive the japanese troops back into a position JAP can defend better. In 1939 CHI has lots of lost of provinces, in 1940 JAP has lost 500 manpower and in 1941 JAP can reach a standoff and reinforce its existing 80 Inf back to full strength.

 

[Titan79]

Looking good so far. Is it possible to leave some of these events on even against a human JAP? The conquest of China seems still to be a walk in the park for an average player, not to speak about an experienced one (especially because of the low Chinese IC level).

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Looking good so far. Is it possible to leave some of these events on even against a human JAP? The conquest of China seems still to be a walk in the park for an average player, not to speak about an experienced one (especially because of the low Chinese IC level).

Those infra event will weaken CHI. If CHI has to use no regular ic on supplies before 1940 than beating CHI should become less easy.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Here is a new set of changes. Set 25 is included in the file.

\ai\chi_36.ai
		max_factor = 1.00 changed to 0.50
		infantry = 45 changed to 93
		bergsjaeger = 50 changed to 0
		hq = 1 changed to 2
		interceptor = 4 changed to 5
		Mountaineers are no longer endgoal
		changed research field priorities
		
\ai\sov_germany.ai
		province_priorities = { 133  = 10 # Murmansk } changed back to 20
		
\db\misc.txt
		repair costs = 0.25 changed to 1.00
		repair time = 0.33 changed to 0.0833
		
\db\Province.csv
		1228: Zhengzhou Infra = 30% changed to 40%
		
\db\events\ai_cgx.txt
		27005: changed back
		35548-35549: deleted new events
		
\db\events\AI_CHI.txt
		27594: new persistent event converts 100 money into 200 supplies
		
\db\events\ai_ger.txt
		20562: new event for prepare war command
		
\db\events\ai_sov.txt
		25014-25016: Standard build treshold changed to 300, panic ratio changed to 1.0
		
\db\events\nationalist_china.txt
		27008: changed back
		
\db\events\USSR.txt
		2651-2656: changed chain of events
		
\scenarios\0_gc_1936.eug
		#event = "db\events\AI_Infra_CHI.txt"
		
\scenarios\1936\cgx.inc
		changes in building queue
		
\scenarios\1936\chi_36.inc
		added 2 level 1 forts
		changes in building queue
		
\scenarios\1936\csx.inc
		added 4 level 1 forts
		minor changes in building queue
		
\scenarios\1936\cxb.inc
		changes in building queue
		
\scenarios\1936\cyn.inc
		changes in building queue

 

[Pioniere]

Hi Pang here are some possible files for the beta. CSA has its tech teams reworked so most of its generalized land techs are replaced by southern commanders.
A few other TT for minors, a few event picture for china and USSR. minister for German federal republic and east Germany. one provnice picture for Sevastopol great battle tok place there in ww2. ill_prov_253

Files aod.rar
http://www.sendspace.com/file/41buxq

event picture called aggression is for this soviet event:
Germany Invades Poland without our Blessing!

event picture called Mol_Rib_2is for this soviet event:
The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact - Full Alliance

China offers Guangxi Clique peace uses pictures guangxi_peace and troops_n_china.
Chinese alliance against the Soviets use picture named ufront.

That would be my last change one issues like this in 1.8:ninja:

 

[Pang Bingxun]

I used a lot if infra in the building queue of CHI. I am thinking of using that for axis nations and maybe even for the USSR aswell. A better solution would be to make the AI add infra to building queue when that appears appropriate. But as long as this is not possible that is probable the best workaround.