1.9.8 MAPI. Rivers

[VetMax]

I like the new 1.9 trade system.

But i think rivers can be improved further.
1. Rivers were the primary inland transportation arteries before the railroads.
2. Major rivers were still primary transportation arteries even after railroads were constructed.

River. 1.9.8		Winter navigation	Discharge	Suggested bonus
Mississippi River (US) has +20 Infra +5% MAPI.	Flows into Atlantic Ocean	Navigable entire year	~15k cubic meters per second		Great river for the commerce. All rivers below are worse. Some of them are much worse
Don River (Russia) also has +20 Infra +5% MAPI.	Flows into a shallow (6-8m), almost inland sea that is not navigable in winter (gives you minimal world market access)	The river freezes in winter	~1k cubic meters per second	Don river should provide ~3-4x less bonus than Mississippi. I.e. +10 Infra +1% MAPI If you construct Volga-Don canal, then MAPI can be increased to +2%	The most unfair bonus!
Danube River (Austro Hungary) also has +20 Infra +5% MAPI.	Falls into the Black Sea, which is much better than the Azov Sea (compared to Don). but still it is a local sea	Does not freeze (freezes very rarely)	~7k cubic meters	should provide 1.5 - 2x less bonus vs Mississippi. I.e. +15 Infra +3% MAPI	Somewhat unfair bonus.
Rheine River (Germany) also has +20 Infra +5% MAPI.	Flows into the North Sea	Does not freeze (freezes very rarely)	~2.5k cubic meters per second	should be slightly better than Danube in terms of MAPI +15 infra +4% MAPI Rhine-Herne canal should give an extra +1% MAPI to the Ruhr area	Somewhat unfair bonus.
Volga River (Russia) also has +20 Infra +5% MAPI.	Flows into an inland sea	The river freezes in winter (navigable 200 days per year)	~8k cubic meters per second	Volga should provide ~2-3x less bonus than Mississippi. I.e. +10 Infra +1% MAPI (or there should be some winter condition) If you construct Volga-Don canal, then MAPI can be increased to +2%	Unfair bonus.
Dniper River (Russia) +15 Infra +0% MAPI	Falls into the Black Sea, which is much better than the Azov Sea (compared to Don) Rapids were obstructing the navigation of a certain part of the river. Can not go from top to bottom	The river freezes in winter	2k cubic meters per second	Similar to Don +10 infra +1% MAPI If dams are constructed to counter rapids, +15 infra +2% MAPI
Vistula River (Poland, Prussia) Does not give any bonuses at the moment.	Flows into the non-shallow part of the Baltic Sea.	The river freezes in winter	1k cubic meters per second	Should give more MAPI than Don. +10 Infra +2% MAPI.	No bonus is given while worse rivers have a big bonus.
Elbe (Prussia) +15 Infra +0% MAPI	Flows into the non-shallow part of the Baltic Sea.	Freezes in one winter out of 10	~1k cubic meters per second	+10 Infra +2% Mapi	Better than any Russian river commerce-wise. Should have some MAPI
Seine +15 Infra	Flows into the English Channel	Freezes in one winter out of 10	0.5k cubic meters	+10 Infra +2% Mapi	This river should give MAPI

It could be good to see:
1. "Stop"/reduce winter navigation for 1-4 months where applicable.
2. Introduce a concept of a warm water port / non-warm water port. At least a year-round ~25% debuff for the non-warm water port.
Russia was obsessed with the need for a warm-water port throughout the entire Romanov era, starting with Peter the Great and continuing through Nicholas II.
3. More mechanics for the major rivers. River transportation, canal/locks construction (river upgrade buildings. Maybe the entire river should be clickable as a single object for construction purposes. For example, connecting Neman and Vistula via a canal (Augustow Canal) gives both rivers +1% MAPI.
4. Convoys should be able to navigate rivers according to the river level.
5. Infra / MAPI river bonus should be more dynamic (should have more levels)
6. Neman River is missing (discharge is similar to Elbe)
7. Rivers can give a throughput bonus to the lumber industry, ie, free transportation for the lumber in the river basin.
8. It could be cool to see a steamer animation on the river for a flavour!

 

[TitaniumMan91]

My thought was to rename railroads to Infrastruture more generally, make the base PM "Roads and Canals," and give those major rivers a modifier that increases how much each level of infrastruture the building provides. Experimental Trains gives 20 per level and Diesel provides 40, so a base level for roads of 5, doubled for the states with the river modifier to 10, would be a huge boon early game (+100%) that tapers off by the end game (+12.5%) without creating new buildings to further fragment the pops. You could change how much tthe river adds so the Mississippi or Rhine are a bigger deal than the Elbe.

 

[VetMax]

I think that there can be ~20 unique river upgrades on the map that would update the entire river system not just one province usually. Construction price should be around the monument price.
For example, this canal allows you to travel across the whole France and connects two seas. The whole river system is boosted all provinces across.

Canal du Midi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

- Volga-Don canal connects two relatively big rivers, so the market access is boosted across the entire river system. Many provinces.
- Manchester Ship Canal. Gave better world market access to Manchester turning an inland city into an Atlantic port.
- Dniper without locks is not navigable rly just in the middle. So the whole river system should have a 50% boost or so.
- Illinois and Michigan Canal + Chicago Sanitary Ship Canal (level 2). Connected Great lakes and the Mississippi.

Not a single province boost...

 

[Ragatokk]

I think ports and railways should give MAPI