14) FIXED IN 1.03: Control of the Papacy clears out my court

[Winkelried]

Control of the Papacy clears out my court

For whatever reason I (William the Conqueror) gained control of the Papacy (was quite a surprise) and now every time a bishop dies somewhere, he is replaced with a member of my court. The problem is, they don't only take people with clerical education but others too. I've lost many courtiers and the marshal, steward and a son (martial education) to this odd occurance. Is there a way to tone this down? Otherwise I don't know how to keep a working council.

 

[Cat Lord]

For whatever reason I (William the Conqueror) gained control of the Papacy (was quite a surprise) and now every time a bishop dies somewhere, he is replaced with a member of my court. The problem is, they don't only take people with clerical education but others too. I've lost many courtiers and the marshal, steward and a son (martial education) to this odd occurance. Is there a way to tone this down? Otherwise I don't know how to keep a working council.

Yes, change your religious law.

Cat

 

[Winkelried]

Yes, change your religious law.

Cat

Mine or that of the Papacy?

 

[Cat Lord]

Mine or that of the Papacy?

Yours.

Cat

 

[Martinus]

I believe your advice is not correct, Cat Lord. It's not about the Religious Law (which rules who is appointed to YOUR vassal bishops).

The issue at hand is that candidates for bishops elsewhere are appointed from either the papal court or the papal controller's court - and has nothing to do with the law at the papal controller's court.

This is something you have to live with - however your son is not "lost" per se - he is just ruling some province as a bishop. I am quite positive, however, that he can inherit after you and thus gain your lands additional bishopric.

But... I believe this should be appointed from only people with clerical education, so this might be a bug.

 

[Cat Lord]

I believe your advice is not correct, Cat Lord. It's not about the Religious Law (which rules who is appointed to YOUR vassal bishops).

The issue at hand is that candidates for bishops elsewhere are appointed from either the papal court or the papal controller's court - and has nothing to do with the law at the papal controller's court.

I thought it does.

I thought that if you have Regal Supremacy you were creating and appointing bishopry yourself. That with Monastic Supremacy or Ecclesiastical Balance, you couldn't create them. And that with Church Supremacy, the Pope was creating bishopry and filling them in your desmene without you having a say...

That said, even after weeks of beta testing, the Pope mechanism are still rather obscure to me, I must admit

Cat

 

[Martinus]

I thought it does.

I thought that if you have Regal Supremacy you were creating and appointing bishopry yourself. That with Monastic Supremacy or Ecclesiastical Balance, you couldn't create them. And that with Church Supremacy, the Pope was creating bishopry and filling them in your desmene without you having a say...

That said, even after weeks of beta testing, the Pope mechanism are still rather obscure to me, I must admit

Cat

No, it's different.

If you are an overlord of a bishop (irrespective of whether you are or not papal controller), if the bishop dies, the bishop gets appointed from either:
A. your court (more "regal supremacy"), or
B. court of the Pope or papal controller (more "ecclesiastic supremacy").

This means that if you are papal controller, your court members are likely to be appointed to the bishoprics of any country that has church supremacy. As far as your own bishops (i.e. within your boundaries) are concerned, this means that your law actually changes little, as if your vassal bishop dies, the successor will be appointed from either:
A. your court (if you have regal supremacy), or
B. papal or papal controller (i.e. your again ) court if you have church supremacy.

Now, having your son appointed to some far-off land bishopric is not that bad as it seems, as he is not exempted from inheritance because of that, and when he inherits, he will become again a secular lord of your own land, but keep the land he was granted as a bishop. Of course, having your best courtiers whisked away to become bishop of Lund may be a bit more problematic, but c'est la-vie - you don't refuse the Pope.

 

[unmerged(8913)]

Of course, having your best courtiers whisked away to become bishop of Lund may be a bit more problematic, but c'est la-vie - you don't refuse the Pope.

Hmm... If you (as the player) are the Papal controller, shouldn't you then have a say in which of your courtiers gets appointed? I don't really see the logic in having them automatically selected when you are controlling the Pope...

 

[Winkelried]

No, it's different.

If you are an overlord of a bishop (irrespective of whether you are or not papal controller), if the bishop dies, the bishop gets appointed from either:
A. your court (more "regal supremacy"), or
B. court of the Pope or papal controller (more "ecclesiastic supremacy").

This means that if you are papal controller, your court members are likely to be appointed to the bishoprics of any country that has church supremacy. As far as your own bishops (i.e. within your boundaries) are concerned, this means that your law actually changes little, as if your vassal bishop dies, the successor will be appointed from either:
A. your court (if you have regal supremacy), or
B. papal or papal controller (i.e. your again ) court if you have church supremacy.

Now, having your son appointed to some far-off land bishopric is not that bad as it seems, as he is not exempted from inheritance because of that, and when he inherits, he will become again a secular lord of your own land, but keep the land he was granted as a bishop. Of course, having your best courtiers whisked away to become bishop of Lund may be a bit more problematic, but c'est la-vie - you don't refuse the Pope.

Of course I don't refuse the pope. But I do wonder what he thought when he appointed an arab muslim courtier to the post of bishop. :rofl:

 

[unmerged(26157)]

Of course I don't refuse the pope. But I do wonder what he thought when he appointed an arab muslim courtier to the post of bishop. :rofl:

The way of the pope is always hidden from sight :rofl:

 

[Theodotus1]

Keep in mind that the Pope is infallible.

 

[Inostra]

Keep in mind that the Pope is infallible.

but a bit wierd

 

[Edgar Francis I]

Now, having your son appointed to some far-off land bishopric is not that bad as it seems, as he is not exempted from inheritance because of that, and when he inherits, he will become again a secular lord of your own land, but keep the land he was granted as a bishop. Of course, having your best courtiers whisked away to become bishop of Lund may be a bit more problematic, but c'est la-vie - you don't refuse the Pope.

Problem is, if I have only one son and the Pope has appointed him Bishop of Pottsylvania at the age of 4, then he's never going to get married. And then if my king lives for a really long time, the son inherits (and thus become eligible for marriage) in his 50s, say. He's lost 35 years of breeding time to get himself an heir. If he fails to spawn, my game is over.

Is there any historical justification for the heir of a ruler to be appointed to a far-off foreign bishopric as a toddler? I would be very surprised to learn if there was. I'm having a hard time believing this is WAD.


EF1

PS- this all assumes bishops can't marry, but I haven't seen one get married after being installed as bishop. I HAVE seen already-married men get appointed bishop however, which is less problematic (Clerical Celibacy is a "technology" to be developed in the game, after all).

EDIT: and oh yeah, the above example HAS happened to me. My heir AND his younger brother both got snatched away.

 

[Totmes III]

Problem is, if I have only one son and the Pope has appointed him Bishop of Pottsylvania at the age of 4, then he's never going to get married. And then if my king lives for a really long time, the son inherits (and thus become eligible for marriage) in his 50s, say. He's lost 35 years of breeding time to get himself an heir. If he fails to spawn, my game is over.
QUOTE]

It´s even worse if you have elective law, since your strongest vassal will inherit - if all your sons are appointed bishops, you have no heir to your kingdom/duchy. Unless you invest them with a county as soon as they are born, losing control over them anyway.

 

[Mr.Grahn]

I think the papacy controll is very,very strange , in my game the papacy controller is the finnish rebels( :wacko: ) who don´t even have an province and i still get people from my court to inherit bishops titles all over Europe.

To me this sounds like a major bug.

 

[Cat Lord]

FIXED IN 1.03

Cat

 

[afb]

FIXED IN 1.03

Cat

I'm not sure which part you refer to as "fixed" but I still have all my male courtiers run off to be bishops of odd places when I'm the papal controller.

Anders

 

[Cat Lord]

I'm not sure which part you refer to as "fixed" but I still have all my male courtiers run off to be bishops of odd places when I'm the papal controller.

Yes, but not your kiddos of all ages, wife and dogs anymore, AFAIK

Cat

 

[afb]

Yes, but not your kiddos of all ages, wife and dogs anymore, AFAIK

Nope, haven't had problems with that,though I was considering appointing my horse Chancellor. No, what you're saying is that in regards to adult catholic males - even non-ecclesiastical ones - the pope must be obeyed.

 

[Blofeld]

Married courtiers with children are elected as bishops, regardless of their education, which doesn't feel right. I haven't seen random courtiers replacing them also, in spite of what 1.03 readme says.