196) WAD: Excommunicating someone with Negative Piety ADDS Prestige!

[InnocentIII]

Excommunicating someone with Negative Piety ADDS Prestige!

I finally got to be the Papal controller so I wandered about the map looking for people to excommunicate. The King of Germany seemed ripe for a fall, as he had negative 6k piety and negative 11k cash, and was the Liege to the count of a County I wanted.

So, my poor, poor, pitiful, Pope, with Prestige of <80, "Required -6k Prestige" to excommunicate the King. Hey, np. My Pope had more than negative 6k prestige! Excommunicate the King of the Germans and presto! my Pope now has >6k Prestige! I only wish my King "paid" the prestige price (to make up for all the castle prestige he lost ).

Apparently the Prestige cost, even if it's negative, gets subtracted from the prestige of the Pope. Subtract a negative number and the Prestige goes higher.

 

[kurtbrian]

have others seen this?

 

[InnocentIII]

Is there a cheat to give yourself Papal control?

I can't be the only one seeing this, but Papal control seems fairly uncommon, especially when people avoided it because it cleared their courtiers.

Someone please try it and prove me right

 

[InnocentIII]

I tried this (though on a savegame from 1.01), and it does not work on people with a small negative prestige. Under 300 (256?) or so it works as intended.

However, on very large negative prestige, it still works. My Pope was up near 8k when I got done.

So please try this, but make sure your target has high negative prestige.

 

[InnocentIII]

Here's how you verify it:

Start a new game in the middle scenario - the Crusades. Play as King of Germany, and just try to assasinate as many people as possible. Do a dozen of these and -1k piety is pretty easy. Plus, it's fun!

Watch for Papal Controller changes, it starts off as Duke of Lombardy. Here's the catch: you cannot play as the Duke of Lombardy, since Lombardy is a republic. So be sure to assasinate the Duke, and watch for the new controller. Mine was King of Denmark.

[OT - the new assasinate code makes it pretty interesting. I think it's overpowered: in an MP game I bet the one who gets lucky in assasinations wins: everyone else will die without heir, eventually.]

Run your Piety to -1000. Save the game, and restart as the Papal controller. Excommunicate Friederich of Germany, make sure you check the Pope's prestige before and after.

I tried this, and the Pope's Prestige went from <10 to over 1000!

I am playing 1.02. I had uninstalled (costing me my saved games with no warning!), defragged and reinstalled strait from 1.00 to 1.02.

 

[Duuk]

No need to do anything like that.


I gained 7 prestige by excommunicating the King of Germany (-7 piety).

I am too cool

 

[adhuin]

have others seen this?

Yup. It costs exactly the amount of piety & cost of -50 is actually a gain of 50.
Tested it again, and noticed that you can theoretically gain infinite amount of
prestige to your pope, by excommunicating a guy of -50 piety (gain 50 prestige), then welcoming him back (no cost), then kicking him out (gain 50 prestige) and then

It was intresting that if pope has negative amount of prestige for example -30 he can excommunicate anyone with piety lower or equal to -30, but pope can't excommunicate if the victim has "only" -15 piety, even though he would be gaining 15 prestige from it.

 

[unmerged(7789)]

Tried this out and got similar resullts. In theory this doesn't sound like a bad idea. I mean really, it seems pretty natural that a pope who excommunicates someone who really has fallen out with the church would get some good press out of it and prove that he was doing his job. 6K prestige sounds a bit excessive, but the idea is right...just needs some kind of cap.

The real bug I would think is unexcommunicating someone with negative piety...which seems like it should cost you prestige to do.

 

[kurtbrian]

changed the status to bug.

 

[kurtbrian]

WAD according to Johan.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

WAD according to Johan.

Including the no prestige loss for unexcommunicating?

 

[Demetrios]

Heh, I guess a character who is so impious that he has a -6000 piety is so reviled by the rest of Christian Europe that when the Pope excommunicates him it's lauded as a wise decision by the Pontiff and thus raises his prestige accordingly!

 

[Varyar]

Heh, I guess a character who is so impious that he has a -6000 piety is so reviled by the rest of Christian Europe that when the Pope excommunicates him it's lauded as a wise decision by the Pontiff and thus raises his prestige accordingly!

Probably, but wouldn't undoing the excommunication in that case lead to a hit on prestige(Pope is seen as a moron because he pardons Satan's right hand on earth)?

Otherwise it becomes rather "gamey", as one would excommunicate, then undo it, excommunicate again and so on to boost papal prestige... which in turn can be abused.

 

[InnocentIII]

Heh, I guess a character who is so impious that he has a -6000 piety is so reviled by the rest of Christian Europe that when the Pope excommunicates him it's lauded as a wise decision by the Pontiff and thus raises his prestige accordingly!

Some boost might be sensible, or at least no cost, but +6k piety? The Pope can now excommunicate all the crowned head of Europe (and he'll get away with it, too, despite their meddling kids!).

Sure seems silly. Oh, well.

 

[adhuin]

WAD according to Johan.

was the part, where you can repeatedly excommunicate/Revoke excommunication rulers with negative piety and thus gain any amount of prestige for your pope, also WAD?

Maybe reverse costs for revoking excommunication. Prestige gain if the target has positive piety & loss of prestige if target has negative piety?

 

[Cat Lord]

Ho bugger, I have created a duplicate of this bug, marked as BUG, because I think there is a real loophole here...

I'll close this one.

Cat