240) NOT A BUG: Overpowered Mongols

[Spruce]

mongols

yep, I'm sorry to say, but the game has become very much inplayable for me thanks to the overactive mongols. The Ill-khanate has encircled the golden horde and has taken Germany and is now racing for the lower countries and France.

As King of leon (an owning Spain and part of Low countries and France), this is my one shot to hold them off. But after a humonguous amount of tries I've given up,

so being very uncapable of holding them off, I went to look for bugs =

- I believe their army is way too big (do they respawn???),
- they march trough counties on who they didn't declare war, so in other words the mongols are everywhere, but they only dow some nations they'll just eat up bit by bit. I don't think this is just,
- they use all type of european looking vassals, so I believe they use european armies against their own brothers,
- when I was degraded from king to duke (different heir due to reshaped landscape) the mongols stopped attacking! They just halted their armies and now there's only about 150-300 horsemen in south of spain (they went all the way to south of spain), they've just stopped for no reason. They are still at war the king of leon (that other guy right) but they don't attack no more, and their big armies are vanished,


how can i solve the mongol problem, or do I have to wait for a patch?

 

[Grosshaus]

Are Mongols a common problem to you folks?

 

[Brownbeard]

actually, in my games... they do nothing. i ussualy end the crusades by 1200. they usurp one province in my duchy of ural(GOLD) or in duchy oh khwarizm/karakum(ILKH) and they dare not attack. ussualy i muster cca. 250000 troops in the east and destroy them, but they respawn, so i let them be until 1280. and then i destroy them again...

mongols never attacked me, neither in 1.01 or in 1.02, i play kingdom of croatia on very hard(always) and random agressivnes

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

- I believe their army is way too big (do they respawn???),

They get a good starter pack, have two (IIRC) events that can give them bonus packs of troops and, more importantly, can freely use regiments from conquered territory just like you can. With their high efficiency, the regiments they can raise from conquered territories will be large.

- they march trough counties on who they didn't declare war, so in other words the mongols are everywhere, but they only dow some nations they'll just eat up bit by bit. I don't think this is just,

All countries march through other countries with which they are not at war, when they are fighting somebody else. You probably do it yourself all the time.

- they use all type of european looking vassals, so I believe they use european armies against their own brothers,

Regiments from conquered provinces, same rules as for everybody else.

- when I was degraded from king to duke (different heir due to reshaped landscape) the mongols stopped attacking! They just halted their armies and now there's only about 150-300 horsemen in south of spain (they went all the way to south of spain), they've just stopped for no reason. They are still at war the king of leon (that other guy right) but they don't attack no more, and their big armies are vanished,

Praise the lord for small mercies

how can i solve the mongol problem, or do I have to wait for a patch?

At such a desperate juncture, your only chance may prove to be simultaneously regiment stealing their most important manpower provinces, then use the returned regiments to take out neighbouring provinces, eating the horde up from within. If you are at peace, then position your troops wisely deep within enemy territory before the DOW. Good luck, you will need it.

 

[Spruce]

the point of my post was to say that the mongol "assimilator" shouldn't get the same bonusses as the "normal" medevial noblemen - feudal contracts and all that stuff,

also about marching your troops trough other provinces when you are not at war, is not to be compared with the Mongol horde,

the Mongols were considered to be the scourge of god and should either be at war with all of europe when they begin their assault or not be allowed to travel a nation at which they are not at war,

can you imagine, the German king saying "the scourge of God has arrived, but lucky for us, their zillion army is now marching peacefully trough our lands and the big khan will leave me alone and attack France

the problem with the Mongols is that they are everywhere,

there are coming 2 big armies from Germany, then all the sudden 6 armies come up from behind me, 4 others from the left and then some from the right?

The mongols are like the black death, coming from Kaffa and turning europe into a pile of bones,

 

[Spruce]

between brackets,

if the AI is capable of bashing some mongols on their own, I haven't said nothing, but now I'm the only hope of europe, so either it's game over or my empire overstretches,

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

the point of my post was to say that the mongol "assimilator" shouldn't get the same bonusses as the "normal" medevial noblemen - feudal contracts and all that stuff,

And my point was just that everything appears to be working as designed since everybody, from the King of England to the Empire of Byzantium to the Saracen Kingdoms to the Mongol Hordes play by the same rules....

That does not mean that I do not appreciate your position, as the 1.02 Mongols nearly force you, the player, to go for a monstrously sized Empire in order to save Europe. (Except for the cases where they decide that starving to death in their starting province is preferable)

However, as I happen to be much in favour of games where the same basic rules apply to all as you can fewer nasty special cases overall, I do not think that the way the mongols behave should be considered a bug - rather, the way that Europe rolls over and possibly the mongol stewardship should be looked into for play balancing reasons.

 

[Grosshaus]

Buggified

 

[Khrister]

The only thing I consider a bug with the mongols is that they are EXTREMELY vulnerable to a strike against their starting province (Yaik for golden horde, haven't had the il-khanate yet).

You can remove around 150k troops from them by taking that when they're off invading Poland, as I did in my last game.

It would be good to be able to have troops without a home province. Mercenaries and order knights should also be without a home province, in my opinion, although that's not nearly as important.

Maybe a hidden province would work, if there's a way to put the troops in one province and give them another for a home.

 

[Spruce]

And my point was just that everything appears to be working as designed since everybody, from the King of England to the Empire of Byzantium to the Saracen Kingdoms to the Mongol Hordes play by the same rules....

That does not mean that I do not appreciate your position, as the 1.02 Mongols nearly force you, the player, to go for a monstrously sized Empire in order to save Europe. (Except for the cases where they decide that starving to death in their starting province is preferable)

However, as I happen to be much in favour of games where the same basic rules apply to all as you can fewer nasty special cases overall, I do not think that the way the mongols behave should be considered a bug - rather, the way that Europe rolls over and possibly the mongol stewardship should be looked into for play balancing reasons.

Peter, points taken,

howevery, me - king of Leon and owning half of western europe being the only possible option to stop them - I feel kind of buggy!

can't some countries unite efforts? o

 

[Derek Pullem]

Peter, points taken,

howevery, me - king of Leon and owning half of western europe being the only possible option to stop them - I feel kind of buggy!

can't some countries unite efforts? o

Errrrr.......why? Historically they didn't. Most historians agree that there would have been no city in mainland Europe that could not have been taken if the Mongols had continued their advance in 1242.

Their vassals should have very low loyalty but Mongols did use vassal troops.

Of course as Peter points out the CK model accelerates the conquest - vassal timing to the point of sillyness but this is the same for both sides.

 

[unmerged(26010)]

Are Mongols a common problem to you folks?

At least to me. Last night I lost just (my first game) because of the Horde. They just ate up evereything on their way up to western europe. I had 50 000 men, but the Horde has 200 000+.

 

[Brownbeard]

actually, the tatars had quite a problem with higher quality fortification. while they ran over hungary, they weren't quite as effective in taking old roman stone fortresses in croatia, esp. those in hill regions, that's why the king fled to the fortress-city-island of trogir in the end...

...and then there was the mythical battle on the field of grobnik where the scourge was defeated(but, for some reason, the archeaologists can't find any proof of it, and i already made plans to make a tatar stake house and attract all the tourists...)

 

[Brownbeard]

it is much better when you can muster 1.3 mil in 1220. just wipe out the heathen first