242) FEEDBACK: Succession of orthodox bishoprics

[jaolhe]

Succession of orthodox bishoprics

I think this might be a bug in 1.02. I don't know whether it has already been reported, the forum at the moment is working so badly that I don't have the patience to surf through all the bug report pages.

When the bishops of your orthodox bishoprics die, they are always succeeded by some random guy that has *extremely* low stats. That means every value is around 2-3 (max 4). They are a bit like random cousins but have even worse stats and don't bear the name of your dynasty. While I know this might be WAD (still I think it's stupid, all your orthodox bishoprics are ruled by idiots after 30 years or so (even if you originally appointed your own son of magnificent stats)), the real bug is that these random followers also bear totally random education of the lowest grade (misguided warrior etc.) If they became bishops they really should have ecclestical education or what do you think?

I haven't played catholic countries very much so I don't know how the naming of bishops there actually works but I've understood they are named either by you or by the pope (depending on your laws). Is it really wad that in orthodox countries you shouldn't have any control over who becomes the next bishop in your vassal bishoprics?

 

[Solmyr]

This is because AI rulers get random cousins too, and those are often in line of succession for the bishoprics.

 

[jaolhe]

This is because AI rulers get random cousins too, and those are often in line of succession for the bishoprics.

But is this the way it is supposed to work with bishoprics? Shouldn't the ruler or some orthodox religious authority (the emperor or patriarch of Constantinople) name the new bishop and shouldn't he be a guy with ecclestical education as well?

 

[unmerged(12746)]

But is this the way it is supposed to work with bishoprics? Shouldn't the ruler or some orthodox religious authority (the emperor or patriarch of Constantinople) name the new bishop and shouldn't he be a guy with ecclestical education as well?

Yes and yes. The inhertence works like yours, and that bishop is going to get the generic low stat courtiers you get but because he dosent marry one of those courtiers will succeed him.

and yes the ruler of the vassal should be able to appoint the new bishop, but I think the game is just looking at the bishopric as another vassal and nothing special, there arent seperate rules that govern it. So thats the problem. I agree that it should be a guy with ecclestical education and strong stats. Unless the status of bishoprics change in game function from vassals to something that is semi controlled by the leige I cant see how this would change.

Bishoprics need to be looked at. I think there should be more rules that govern setting them up, and this might be the ticket to this issue. Maybe we should be limited to setting them up only in provinces with a large church? and you can only grant the title to someone with a trait higher then (you choose the level)... and make the AI not fill the position with succession unless someone has the equal or higher trait, and the church still exsists (inst lost in a province seige or event). If the AI successor cant fill the requirement the province should revert back to the leige, or maybe to the pope, as really these are now church lands (not sure how that would work with orthodox, maybe just back to the leige, or the emperor)

 

[Khrister]

Maybe we should be limited to setting them up only in provinces with a large church?

This would mean no bishoprics would be possible in northern europe for quite some time, as they don't have the technology to make it...

 

[unmerged(12746)]

This would mean no bishoprics would be possible in northern europe for quite some time, as they don't have the technology to make it...

Unless you choose to research it, or by event one is built. Its not perfect but there needs to be some factor that makes them different from other vassals, beside the piety/prestige you get from doing so.

 

[kurtbrian]

logged.

 

[jaolhe]

Hmmm, the thread has perhaps drifted away from the original point... Ok, the game definitely needs some enchantments in the area of orthodox bishoprics in general,

*but* there seems to be at least the *obvious bug* that people without any ecclestial education receive the bishop status after the original appointed bishop dies (in orthodox bishoprics).

 

[unmerged(12746)]

Hmmm, the thread has perhaps drifted away from the original point... Ok, the game definitely needs some enchantments in the area of orthodox bishoprics in general,

*but* there seems to be at least the *obvious bug* that people without any ecclestial education receive the bishop status after the original appointed bishop dies (in orthodox bishoprics).

Well yes its drifted away, which I am somewhat to blame (sorry mate). Yes this is a bug, you shouldnt be able to get a bishopric if you dont have ecclestial training, no matter the religion. Maybe thats WAD though, maybe it was never a condition when the game was designed but at minimum it should be, at length see my prior post.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Hmmm, the thread has perhaps drifted away from the original point... Ok, the game definitely needs some enchantments in the area of orthodox bishoprics in general,

*but* there seems to be at least the *obvious bug* that people without any ecclestial education receive the bishop status after the original appointed bishop dies (in orthodox bishoprics).

It's definetly better than it was in 1.01 though, where dead orthodox bishops were replaced the same way as catholics, with catholic lads from the current Pope's controller.

 

[Frontenac]

BTW, after 90 years worth of play as Orthodox Novgorod ("upgraded" to Kingdom of Lithuania later), I haven't nominated a single replacement bishop yet. OK, most of the bishoprics were created rather recently, but there were replacements (by extremely low stats no-clerical-training guys, I can confirm this) and I should normally have nominated 50% of them under the current legal regime.

 

[Grosshaus]

Frontenac: You don't manually nominate a bishop when the old dies, instead a new one is taken from your (or Pope's/Papal controllers, don't remember which) court according to some formula.

 

[Frontenac]

OK, didn't know that. I was under the impression that lay investiture meant that I could freely chose my bishop vassal. But one taken from the pool of available priests in my court is OK, as long as the comptent ones are chosen and the bad ones left to rot in my court.