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331) Feedback: 'NO' means 'NO'

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'NO' means 'NO'

Templars, Hospitaliers and all those other mongrel orders. I say no, I loose 50 piety, one month later they ask again, I say no. Over and over this goes on and on. Can those buggers quit that? I hate all knightly orders, Teutonics, the most, because those pansy little $%^# stole my land. And I hate the others too, what do I get for handing over territory. Zilch, nada, zero.

Ok, we need some sort of a thing that once you say NO, they don't ask again until your son inherits or something, or they need to become your vassals, without the negative loyalty that you get, when you normally vassalize them. Also, it would be nice if you could appoint the head of the Templar Order, since I don't want French or German or whatever guys, running around and converting provinces to their culture. I rule a Polish Kingdom, I want a Polish man to lead the Order, if I am founding it.
 
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Looking at the event files, (Templar_events.txt) it seems there might be a bug. Granting land to the Templars (910) and the St. John (911) has an option "A" and an option "B". You can grant it and get nothing, or not and take a 50 piety hit.

Granting land to the Teutonic Order (912) just has one option, so if the event triggers you are gonna get the TO. On the other hand the MTTH is not the same and I do not know the historical specifics on how the orders came about, so maybe there is a reason that the TO is automatic... :confused:

Also, when the Orders are created by an event the Titles they get are King level titles, but when you start the 1337 scenario they are Duke level titles.

~CaBhaal
 
EricSaxon said:
Oh, really? Hmmm? I wonder why all those kings got excommunicated, it that was true?

Oh, wait, it couldn't be! Those kings actually did not ask "how high?"

Second point, the Crusading Orders were created for what reason? Could it be to retake the Holy Land? Well, if I am doing it, then what the heck am I doing, giving my land away to the slackers who did nothing. Do you really think the Pope would offend his best King, you know, the one who retook Jerusalem, by bugging him, as to who should rule the Holy Lands? Do you, really?
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Well eric, sarcasm aside, the AI isnt dynamic enough yet to determine who is fulfilling expectations, who hasnt, who has given more forces, who should be rewarded, etc etc. Yes they come in and take your land, there isnt a dam thing you can do about it. It would be nice if the orders were created during a crusading period, and they crusaded. You should get piety and prestige for giving up a county to a crusading order, I dont think thats to much to ask, and certainly would give you something back for the expense.

Maybe, if we get to this point with the AI, that your crusade expectation could be lowered, if you have an order event. Or, to make it more dynamic you get to choose if you want to allow them the land to create thier order or not, if you dont you take a prestige hit, and your crusader expectation is raised.
 
I don't have a problem with the AI asking for something over and over until it gets what it wants. After all, human players can do it to get what they want (vassals, marriages, etc), so why not let the computer?

And as for what you're getting in the particular case that you are referencing, it more of the relief from a negative rather than a positive reward. If you refuse to help out the crusading orders, I could easily see it as their sympathisers in European courts slandering and besmirching your character. Repetedly refusing them just makes it easier for wagging tongues to label you as impious. True, you're doing the work yourself and the Crusading order isn't likely to do anything given the current AI, but we all know that perception matters more than fact in the realm of politics.
 
I wouldn't mind if there was a limit on diplomatic contact you can initiate with a particular ruler, like there was in EU2. Maybe once per month or something (the Middle Ages weren't known for fast message travel). The limit should apply both to human and computer players, of course.
 
Solmyr said:
Eric, your hatred of the Teutonic Order is approaching ridiculous levels. Consider calming down. :p
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Yeah, you are right. After all, what’s not to love about an Order of Holy Knights, who exterminated a whole people? (Prussian Tribe) We should all cheer for the Teutonic Order, a group of such Holy men, that they spent half of their crusading time, murdering and raping a bunch of farmers and fishermen. I mean, these guys were the Holiest of Hollies, their courage can be shown in little stories of their Knights ripping babies out of the arms of their mothers and tossing them into live open flame, but hey, they were just converting the heathens, right?

You are so right Solmyr, I shouldn’t hate these guys, after all they represent what is best about Christianity in general.
 
The specific triggers and effects of the events of the Templar_Events.txt file have been changed for 1.03. I believe that those changes will probably make you feel a bit better about these events.
 
EricSaxon said:
You are so right Solmyr, I shouldn’t hate these guys, after all they represent what is best about Christianity in general.
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Erm, why are you playing a game which is called "Crusader Kings", with the crusades being one of the bloodiest chapters in the history of christianity?
:eek:o

There is a certain amount of history in this game, and these orders are part of the european history, if you want it or not. Why is it so damn hard to understand this?
 
daboese said:
Erm, why are you playing a game which is called "Crusader Kings", with the crusades being one of the bloodiest chapters in the history of christianity?
:eek:o

There is a certain amount of history in this game, and these orders are part of the european history, if you want it or not. Why is it so damn hard to understand this?
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It is not hard to understand. Plain and simple enough for you? GOOD

I am not playing CK so that I can follow history, if I just wanted to follow history, I would read a history book. Plain and simple enough for you? GOOD

The reason I shelled out $50 for this game, was to be able to alter history and do things differently. Plain and simple enough for you? GOOD

The appearance of these Orders against, my will, does not allow me to do that. It forces me to play a history book. I did not pay $50 to play a history book. Is that plain and simple enough for you? No? Too BAD.
 
This is a subforum to present bugs and discuss ways to deal with them, if you want to discuss history enter history forums, if you want to have an off-topic discussion try off-topic forum

Grosshaus
Moderator
 
EricSaxon said:
Yeah, you are right. After all, what’s not to love about an Order of Holy Knights, who exterminated a whole people? (Prussian Tribe) We should all cheer for the Teutonic Order, a group of such Holy men, that they spent half of their crusading time, murdering and raping a bunch of farmers and fishermen. I mean, these guys were the Holiest of Hollies, their courage can be shown in little stories of their Knights ripping babies out of the arms of their mothers and tossing them into live open flame, but hey, they were just converting the heathens, right?

You are so right Solmyr, I shouldn’t hate these guys, after all they represent what is best about Christianity in general.
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Hi EricSaxon,

you are a little paranoid about the Teutonic Order, although I admit that with time they were considered cruel hypocrites by their contemporaries like Francis Bacon and Holy Birgitta.
But accusing them of extermination of "peaceful" Prussian villagers and fisherfolk is bordering on blindness to facts. The Teutons were invited by the Duke of Masovia because his people were getting plundered and murdered by organised and relentless Prussian, Yatviag, Lithuanian and whatever raiding parties. The Baltic pagans were accomplished plunderers with rape as pastime and murder for profession.
The Teutons gave the Baltic pagans same treatment as those themselves freely dealt out to the people of Mazovia. Glory to them for that at least, as they have so much to be ashamed of in their later history.
Rgds, Oldtimer
 
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Hi again EricSaxon,

instead of making a long quote I`ll just say that I have vassalized the Teutons and have had sterling service from them. If you can`t, well that`s just too bad.

Rgds, Oldtimer
 
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