3D World

[tapewormlondon]

Im sorry but i really dont get how someone could prefer the old style maps to that of CKII and the preview of the EU4 one. They look stunning!! If they were to produce the game using the old 2d map i would have been gutted. I even asked a few months back if they were planning on releasing a map DLC to update EU3, I wanted it that badly!

Each to there own though I guess

 

[Grubnessul]

Because it looks good and trailers are about visuals. Showing someone scrutinizing the ledger doesn't really have the same zing to it. Just because players in the past haven't played in the terrain map mode is not a reason to not try to improve it. We aim to make the terrain map mode carry more vital information so that you actually want to play that way.

But the green is hard on the eyes

 

[ANO1453]

Me.

It just looks better than all the bright, blocky colours of political mode. I might switch to political to check my borders or the size of a rival nation, but for gameplay I'm almost always in terrain map mode.

For moments I thought I was alone

 

[HKFlash]

Because it looks good and trailers are about visuals. Showing someone scrutinizing the ledger doesn't really have the same zing to it. Just because players in the past haven't played in the terrain map mode is not a reason to not try to improve it. We aim to make the terrain map mode carry more vital information so that you actually want to play that way.

Just wanted to say that I always play on geographical.

 

[Walker85]

Because it looks good and trailers are about visuals. Showing someone scrutinizing the ledger doesn't really have the same zing to it. Just because players in the past haven't played in the terrain map mode is not a reason to not try to improve it. We aim to make the terrain map mode carry more vital information so that you actually want to play that way.

I'm ok with that if only there always be a political mapmode. I think many players are used to it

 

[Unready]

Because it looks good and trailers are about visuals. Showing someone scrutinizing the ledger doesn't really have the same zing to it. Just because players in the past haven't played in the terrain map mode is not a reason to not try to improve it. We aim to make the terrain map mode carry more vital information so that you actually want to play that way.

Hmm.. I have always considered the EU and the rest of the PDS game a game about politics, so the main mode for me was always a political and diplomatic.
It possible what inclusion of weather and climate in the game get me to make look more often on a physical map mode.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

I never play in in geographical mode. It doesn't really give much useful information with regard to anything except the topography and terrain, and you tend to lose even that when you zoom out since the graphics become so small. Whereas political, religious, trade, regional, and most of the others remain useful at even the furthest zoom because they are flat colour at that point.

If we had grayscale terrain and topography when any other map mode is selected, then it could be a useful addition however, since when I drop in for a war I could see two sets of useful information at once without cluttering the interface.

 

[Modestus]

You should check some classes in cartography because you've got that exactly backwards.

Hint: nearly every map produced in this or last century started as a "3D map" (with the coordinate system of longitude, latitude, height) and only got projected down to 2D for print or (more recently) display. And the reason for it is not because cartographers hate good-looking maps.

So your telling me that every map was a 3D model or are you saying that every map because it had heights could be turned into a 3D model.

A 3D model or a 2D map can be as detailed as you want but for pratical reasons people dont travel the world with 3D models and since we are talking about EUIV its 3D representation of the world is basic, there are big lumps for mountain ranges so when it comes to height its not very accurate and not very detailed. I am sure you could be more accurate and detailed but your computer would grind to a halt, so for pratical reasons a 2D approch is better if you want more detail.

 

[Modestus]

Me.

It just looks better than all the bright, blocky colours of political mode. I might switch to political to check my borders or the size of a rival nation, but for gameplay I'm almost always in terrain map mode.

I think it's also more realistic for the EU3 period. Flat, 2D political maps of the sort we're used to simply didn't exist in the EU3 period until the very end (18th century). Instead, Renaissance mapmakers drew 3D maps - little drawings of hills and mountains to show mountain ranges, lots of painstakingly drawn small trees to show a forest, and cities depicted as small clusters of buildings, often with the most prominent landmark (the cathedral tower or whatever) drawn accurately for each city. And yes, they decorated the map with little drawings of animals grazing and flying birds, and ships and sea-monsters in the oceans.

In other words, the newer-style 3D Paradox maps are more historically accurate than the old EU2 2D style, from a roleplaying perspective.

I would consider those to be 2D maps pretending to be 3D, ignoring that fact that its on a computer screen the EUIV map is 3D but not very detailed.

 

[unmerged(101730)]

So your telling me that every map was a 3D model or are you saying that every map because it had heights could be turned into a 3D model.

Nearly every map made in this or last century is a 3D model first. The first such model was made in 1745 by César-François Cassini de Thury

From such a model, a (until now typically 2D) map projection is chosen and the map drawn according to that, using whatever symbols the map-maker chose for features like height lines, waterways, roads, points of interest or labels.

A 3D model or a 2D map can be as detailed as you want but for pratical reasons people dont travel the world with 3D models...

This is the 21th century. Yes, people do travel with 3D models around the Earth nowadays. Anyone who has a device with GPS and a map application which uses this GPS data has such a 3D map model with them. If they weren't, the devices couldn't tell if you're on or under a bridge. It's also usually just doing the same thing a cartographer does for display: Chose a map projection, display the map in this one as a 2D picture.

... and since we are talking about EUIV its 3D representation of the world is basic, there are big lumps for mountain ranges so when it comes to height its not very accurate and not very detailed. I am sure you could be more accurate and detailed but your computer would grind to a halt, so for pratical reasons a 2D approch is better if you want more detail.

Yes, the pseudo-3D map of EU4 is very basic. I wish Paradox would finally make it a real 3D map, not devolve into pre-18th century technology level ...

 

[ANO1453]

Aren't all 3D maps only pseudo 3D maps, since we have a screen that is a 2D projection?

 

[Raph]

Well, I feel that I must take back the things I have said about EUIV's 3D world now that I've seen more of it. At first glance I thought "Oh, it just looks like Crusader Kings II now" but EUIV does look quite a bit better than CKII, I have also now seen the trade route map and I just think it looks awesome. So yeah, case closed, the 3D world looks awesome; I was wrong. It's rather nice how my opinion has changed.

Wow, someone changing his/her mind on the Internet? That's just beutiful.

 

[Modestus]

Nearly every map made in this or last century is a 3D model first. The first such model was made in 1745 by César-François Cassini de Thury

From such a model, a (until now typically 2D) map projection is chosen and the map drawn according to that, using whatever symbols the map-maker chose for features like height lines, waterways, roads, points of interest or labels.



This is the 21th century. Yes, people do travel with 3D models around the Earth nowadays. Anyone who has a device with GPS and a map application which uses this GPS data has such a 3D map model with them. If they weren't, the devices couldn't tell if you're on or under a bridge. It's also usually just doing the same thing a cartographer does for display: Chose a map projection, display the map in this one as a 2D picture.



Yes, the pseudo-3D map of EU4 is very basic. I wish Paradox would finally make it a real 3D map, not devolve into pre-18th century technology level ...

I still do not fully understand what you mean by a model, I presume you mean it to be the necessary information of longitude, latitude and height from the real world that allows you to create a map projection.

When I am talking about EUIV I consider it to be both the world and the model and what you see on your computer is a 3D map projection of this world. The Alps in CKII are a lump and what you see on your map is a lump what I am suggesting is that you don’t try to model a lump you go straight to a 2D representation and avoid trying to project lumps.

 

[unmerged(101730)]

I still do not fully understand what you mean by a model, I presume you mean it to be the necessary information of longitude, latitude and height from the real world that allows you to create a map projection.

When I am talking about EUIV I consider it to be both the world and the model and what you see on your computer is a 3D map projection of this world. The Alps in CKII are a lump and what you see on your map is a lump what I am suggesting is that you don’t try to model a lump you go straight to a 2D representation and avoid trying to project lumps.

By "model" I mean something akin to a 3D model: A set of data points on and about the surface, potentially with associated attributes, describing the underlying physical form of the Earth (... or any other body).

As to your suggestion: I suggest they do the exact opposite and make a real 3D (spherical!) model of the Earth in their game, then project it onto 2D in such a way as to make a visually pleasing map out of it (... instead of just relying on 3D hardware and throwing "raw" textured polygons at it).

 

[StephenT]

I would consider those to be 2D maps pretending to be 3D, ignoring that fact that its on a computer screen the EUIV map is 3D but not very detailed.

Unless you have a hologram projector instead of a computer monitor, EU3/4's map is also a "2D map pretending to be 3D" - or rather, a 2-dimensional representation of a 3D model. So no, there's no real difference. You can zoom a map on a computer, but you can also hold a paper map closer to your eyes.

 

[riknap]

I hate to butt in with a rather different topic, but can we actually potentially rotate the map in EU4 now? I mean, it was possible in Sengoku, and it happens in the CK2 main menu (but not the game itself)...

 

[unmerged(101730)]

And to see what kind of 3D map I'd like to see in Paradox titles, check out this one (you can click on it to zoom in) of the Katmai National Park and Preserve.

 

[Slym]

I started off buying EU3 Complete, because I didn't realize it was no longer complete. One of the main reasons I updated to DW was because the map looked a whole lot nicer. I still think it looks better than CK2.

 

[DarrelHerring]

I'd just like to say that when I said I preferred the "old" maps, I meant Europa Universalis III with all the DLC