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40) Duplicate: Surely a bug - Muslims take the war to Europe

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Roberto

Roberto

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Surely a bug - Muslims take the war to Europe

Third post on this thread. My excuse is that they're all separate topics.

In the first published beta AAR, when the King of Hungary went on Crusade, the Muslims swam to Hungary and attacked his home provinces.

People said this was a bug and would be put right in the first patch.

Alas, I saw it happen in my first try-outs with 1.01. When the King of England went on Crusade to the Canary Islands (thus starting a long tradition of Brits causing havoc there), the Emir landed a small army in Devon!

I've no idea how to fix this, but there must be a way.
 
Upvote 0
Well it's not really a bug. I mean, I can understand people complaining about Muslims sailing through Byzantine Bosphorus into Black Sea, but from the logistics point of view, I don't really see why muslims from West Africa couldn't sail into British Isles.
 
This kind of invasion AI we should've had in HOI. :rolleyes:
 
Roberto said:
Third post on this thread. My excuse is that they're all separate topics.

In the first published beta AAR, when the King of Hungary went on Crusade, the Muslims swam to Hungary and attacked his home provinces.

People said this was a bug and would be put right in the first patch.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone "in the know" said that was a bug...
 
zer0cool said:
Why is that a bug?

You attack someone's home, then they attack yours!

That's why you ALWAYS leave troops to protect your home province, the AI does that all the time.
Click to expand...

Well the argument that it is a bug is that during the Crusades the Muslims never did this. And I will admit that while I had no problem with a Muslim invasion of Hungary, Moors landing on the shores of England is hard to swallow (dur to the lack of any real Muslim naval force that could go into the Atlantic).

But I'm not overly concerned.
 
Martinus said:
Well it's not really a bug. I mean, I can understand people complaining about Muslims sailing through Byzantine Bosphorus into Black Sea, but from the logistics point of view, I don't really see why muslims from West Africa couldn't sail into British Isles.
Click to expand...

No wood to build proper ocean going ships, for starters. none of the navigational tools that were nessary.
 
Dearmad said:
Screw that it makes the game fun! And maybe their hiring ships from some unscrupolous fishing group!
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It's a game by paradox about the middle ages. It is, although I have yet to play it, already fun. There is no need to send muslims in magical ships to england to make it "fun".

And there were no fisherman off of west africa from england at the time.
 
Dearmad said:
have you played the game? It's already too easy to conquer every muslim nation in the game inside of the first 50 years. Cut 'em some slack. Until the AI improves, don't bind it at the ankles.
Click to expand...

I haven't heard anyone say they could conquer every Muslim nation in 50 years... :rolleyes:
 
No wood to build proper ocean going ships, for starters. none of the navigational tools that were nessary.
Click to expand...

No wood, true, but they certainly had the navigational instruments. At least as far as the british did.
 
I have something similar. 20000 Fatamids invaded my Western European provinces and took all my attention away from crusading. Also if I have 20000 people in a province they die off - the AI doesn't seem restricted in this way as those 20000 people are in a 2200 support province and are not deteriorating.
 
I agree that this is a problem. Perhaps not if you have a large realm, but with my two province Italian duchy it is simply impossible to go on crusade. Sure, I can take a province or two from the heathens, but then a bunch of moslem nations declare war on me and land 20000 troops in my capital. Not only is this ahistorical in itself, but it is also wrong that the other christian states (especially the Pope!) in the neighbourhood doesn't come running to kick them out.
 
RuneB said:
I agree that this is a problem. Perhaps not if you have a large realm, but with my two province Italian duchy it is simply impossible to go on crusade. Sure, I can take a province or two from the heathens, but then a bunch of moslem nations declare war on me and land 20000 troops in my capital. Not only is this ahistorical in itself, but it is also wrong that the other christian states (especially the Pope!) in the neighbourhood doesn't come running to kick them out.
Click to expand...

Such a situation is not absolutely ahistorical. The Moslems did frequently attack some parts of Christian Europe, mainly in areas that bordered the Mediterranean. And when the Moslems did attack, it was not always the case that Christendom provided a unified front.

The Middles Ages was characterized far more by treachery than by unity.

What does seem somewhat ahistorical is Moslem invasions of landlocked areas not bordering the Med.
 
Arilou said:
No wood, true, but they certainly had the navigational instruments. At least as far as the british did.
Click to expand...

The Muslims were more advanced compared to the Rest of Europe when it came to ships and navigating. Lebanon was also known for its Cedar and trade ties w/ Russia, India, and Africa solved other wood shortages. Ottoman fleet was also feared up until the Battle of Lepanto in 1571

<<http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Alley/5443/lepanto.htm>>

where they were defeated by the Austrians and much of their navy was sunk. Why didn't they project naval power into the Atlantic? Probably b/ it wasn't worth the trouble. Trade in the Med and particularly the Indian ocean and China was far more valuable than conquering / invading Western Europe.

RuneB said:
I agree that this is a problem. Perhaps not if you have a large realm, but with my two province Italian duchy it is simply impossible to go on crusade. Sure, I can take a province or two from the heathens, but then a bunch of moslem nations declare war on me and land 20000 troops in my capital. Not only is this ahistorical in itself, but it is also wrong that the other christian states (especially the Pope!) in the neighbourhood doesn't come running to kick them out.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Any Muslim Army landing in Italy or other parts of Western Europe would have been opposed by every Kingdom in Christendom. OTOH, there should be repercussions to sending all your available manpower to the Levant, especially if you happen to be the only crusading nation.
 
I think the issue is that naval travel is EXTREMELY easy to undertake regardless of whether or not a nation is Christian or Muslim.

If the game allows me as the King of Scotland to easily conduct solo Crusades into the Holy Land then it is only fair that the larger Muslim nations have ahistorical naval capabilities.

I think that naval travel should have a cost that is reasonable for short/moderate distances but that would dramatically escalate for lengthy trips. Muslim nations could have a higher cost/distance multiplier to reflect the difficulties of doing business with christian ports.

--
EnPeaSea
 
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