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see you there Divine, my jury is still out on 1.2, upgrade thing hurts germany as well as ussr, but ussr still have +50 more ic then germany until 1939. it actually Hurt germany to add in upgrade time an cost for standing army ect. Uk is actually better then they were before, get 20 more ic and upgrade thing doesn;t effect them because they are free market. USA got robbed with IC, but if you take into consideration they have full free market upgrades are easy.
 
-StUkOv- MK VII said:
see you there Divine, my jury is still out on 1.2, upgrade thing hurts germany as well as ussr, but ussr still have +50 more ic then germany until 1939. it actually Hurt germany to add in upgrade time an cost for standing army ect. Uk is actually better then they were before, get 20 more ic and upgrade thing doesn;t effect them because they are free market. USA got robbed with IC, but if you take into consideration they have full free market upgrades are easy.


We play 38 or 36?


Ghis
 
DivineShadow said:
Interested in another player in your game?.

I mainly play Sov, Ger, Usa.

I can handle UK, Jap, Fra properly.

Or rest if desperate.

I can't wait to see this ..... ; )

I have to be informed and observing the Divine / StUkHov showdown. Hehe. 500 inf vs 80 armour +. Amusing.

p.s. still waiting for my son and heir to arrive!
 
StUkOv on HOI 2 version 1.2

Italy is better, Mussolini now a IC minister insted of a -CG minister. (It makes absolutely no sence that he is called "The Silent Workhorse' Lacking in Carisma"

Considering Mussolini was not silent nor lacking in Carisma, by who cares about the little stuff. I ran through it as Germany, intresting. Germany is not as good as they were in 1.1. They start with more ic and with IC ministers, but the upgrade time and cost thing hurts alot, my usual build is 150 divisions with 48 armor's by sept 1st 1939. (All units including Air are upgraded) and i build 36-48 subs. This time it was 160 divisions, 45 armors upgraded to medium tanks, 3 were still not upgraded. (Note i dont build infintry until i get 1939 infintry around the Anchluss anyways, so thats not a big deal.) None of my infintry or airforce was upgraded, nor did I have any subs Built. (Upgrades were started 12 months before war started with 180-210 ic. Used to take 588 ic to upgrade all that, now it takes 899ic's. (note a little of this is due to my selecting central planning in 1938 insted of maxing out hawk, waited for Regardless it is still better to do Two step then regular build as germany for many reasons. For one your the only nation other then japan that can get full hawk by 1937 ( well full minus 1 click.) But even that wouldn't of made much of a difference given the fact i got more ic from CP.

Somthing else bothered me as well, Tanks cost more as Germany, by 1 ic across the board. That might not sound like much, but they cost the same as UK and 1 ic hurts alot in the long run.

Now you would think more ic is great well, no its not. Because I finished upgradeing my armed forces by November of 1939, goes quickly ones tanks are out of the way. Then you have all that nice Ic to work with, until you have to upgrade to Improved Mediums and 41 infintry haha. I dont even want to fuigar the math for that one, but i am betting on 7-9 months of upgradeing for about 250 ic in upgrades a total of oh 900 ic needed for upgrades. The good news is its alot worse for the Soviet Union, because they start full CP and out of range of Hawk max.

Uk is good mmm, considering everyone else is at a disadvantage by the new upgrade time and cost added by standing or drafted army ect. Uk is largely uneffected by it because of Free Market, the same goes for USA. UK also has more ic then before, add in industy tecnology and you get 200 by war with no extra factories. (used to be about 185ish.)

My guess is, many ussr's will start off with factories for a year or two, cutting away at Hawk lobby ect. It would be cheaper for them just to soft build and not two step i believe. Germany on the other hand has to two step, otherwise they wont make much of a dent to average/good UK/FR players. Or an Expert Uk player at that. Given the fact that it takes until a few months before the Munich agreement to get basic Medium tanks make more then 24 of them in the alloted time until Danzig event.

Anyways from what i have analyzed, game is still tipped in favor of allies not as much as it was before. The Burden is now shifted from The USSR and USA more tword the UK.

Well thats all, for now.........
 
1 more thing, when two stepping its much better to build the Great war tank then the Tankette. For this reason alone the StromfuBig or somthing like that as germany now upgrades to the NefuBtiger then to the Panzer III, (Basic Medium)
This tank used to upgrade to the 2 light tanks before going to the Medium one. So insted of 3 tank models when upgradeing you only have 2. If you build the Tankette, which is quicker to build by 20 days, but .8 ic more expsensive, (mathmatically this is cheaper) it still upgrades to the L II then L III model before going to the Basic Medium. Thats all for sure this time
 
-StUkOv- MK VII said:
1 more thing, when two stepping its much better to build the Great war tank then the Tankette. For this reason alone the StromfuBig or somthing like that as germany now upgrades to the NefuBtiger then to the Panzer III, (Basic Medium)
This tank used to upgrade to the 2 light tanks before going to the Medium one. So insted of 3 tank models when upgradeing you only have 2. If you build the Tankette, which is quicker to build by 20 days, but .8 ic more expsensive, (mathmatically this is cheaper) it still upgrades to the L II then L III model before going to the Basic Medium. Thats all for sure this time


Upgrading is not good at all for USA in 1.2. Drafted army have a very high upgrade cost.

Ghis
 
-StUkOv- MK VII said:
again with full free market its still going to be cheaper then USSR/GERMANY/ITALY or Japan

This seems to be a really good thing for soviet union and usa it seems to make them much stronger than 1.1 since they can disband all divisoins make tons of factories and then mass-produce medium tanks and 39/41 inf with basic/improved arty

Since you dont have 35 IC of supplies to make a day SU can do something more useful....like make HQs for a bit while doing industry.

While in the mean time germany is struggling to upgrade his tanks while also having trouble upgrading all inf in time for barbarossa while SU probably already has the very latest. More IC makes this so much easier.

In the end SU will have a crap load of HQs a large number of tanks and a very large number of modern inf with arty or something.

Its funny to see nurfs for SU/USA ending up making them stronger lol.
 
DivineShadow said:
This seems to be a really good thing for soviet union and usa it seems to make them much stronger than 1.1 since they can disband all divisoins make tons of factories and then mass-produce medium tanks and 39/41 inf with basic/improved arty

Since you dont have 35 IC of supplies to make a day SU can do something more useful....like make HQs for a bit while doing industry.

While in the mean time germany is struggling to upgrade his tanks while also having trouble upgrading all inf in time for barbarossa while SU probably already has the very latest. More IC makes this so much easier.

In the end SU will have a crap load of HQs a large number of tanks and a very large number of modern inf with arty or something.

Its funny to see nurfs for SU/USA ending up making them stronger lol.

Having to disband 100 divs makes you stronger, I see.....
 
DEFAULT. said:
Having to disband 100 divs makes you stronger, I see.....

It just might. I am running one test game and was fairly agressive about IC upgrades. Once the purge 10% dissent hit was cleared, I took 240 IC for about eight months to upgrade all the existing units to medium tanks and 39 infantry and current birgade techs. During that time, I could have used that 240 IC to make 4 medium tanks and 164 infantry divisions. This would be about 30 divisons more than USSR currently has, althrough without birgades. Note that going the disbanding route, I would not have had to repair existing divisions or feed them during the 2 years, which would mean I would probably a huge supply stockpile.

Might be the best course of action is to disband all the units which need repairs and all cavs, leaving you with about 60 divisions or so and all the motorized inf, which won't need upgrading till 41 techs. And of course, build IC like heck for the first 1.5 years, so they finish up early 1938 when your 39 tecs become available. So, when you begin production, with less to upgrade, you can begin production sooner, which means by fall 39 you will have around 200-220 divisions, with about 20 being medium panzers and more on the way.

One interesting sidenote is the the Engineer birgade becomes even more useful. It's the only birgade which you don't have to upgrade, so you can build them early and not have to upgrade again and again, etc.
 
DEFAULT. said:
Having to disband 100 divs makes you stronger, I see.....

My young friend....the SU can make 48 infantry divisions per cycle when it needs to (after IC is done)

and yes these divisions are of course that very latest model hawk is full and standing army is on +2 org (around +40 upload time and cost) by 41

By my account upgrade cost was still expensive but i was pumping out 1941 divs and very little need to upgrade anything just yet.
 
Panzer Guderian said:
It just might. I am running one test game and was fairly agressive about IC upgrades. Once the purge 10% dissent hit was cleared, I took 240 IC for about eight months to upgrade all the existing units to medium tanks and 39 infantry and current birgade techs. During that time, I could have used that 240 IC to make 4 medium tanks and 164 infantry divisions. This would be about 30 divisons more than USSR currently has, althrough without birgades. Note that going the disbanding route, I would not have had to repair existing divisions or feed them during the 2 years, which would mean I would probably a huge supply stockpile.

Might be the best course of action is to disband all the units which need repairs and all cavs, leaving you with about 60 divisions or so and all the motorized inf, which won't need upgrading till 41 techs. And of course, build IC like heck for the first 1.5 years, so they finish up early 1938 when your 39 tecs become available. So, when you begin production, with less to upgrade, you can begin production sooner, which means by fall 39 you will have around 200-220 divisions, with about 20 being medium panzers and more on the way.

One interesting sidenote is the the Engineer birgade becomes even more useful. It's the only birgade which you don't have to upgrade, so you can build them early and not have to upgrade again and again, etc.

Yea ive experimented with this the other day it is quite an advantage really.
 
-StUkOv- MK VII said:
seems to defy logic dont it DEF. Anyhow will you be joining us tonight Default?

Then you simply dont understand the huge cost of upgrading from 1918 inf to 1936 inf to 1939 then 1941....it would be cheaper to disband.
 
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DivineShadow said:
Then you simply dont understand the huge cost of upgrading from 1918 inf to 1939 then 1941....it would be cheaper to disband.

well first of all its 1918-1936-1939-1941, and i agree with you. The idea of disbanding divs to get stronger defies accepted logic was all i was saying.
 
-StUkOv- MK VII said:
well first of all its 1918-1936-1939-1941, and i agree with you. The idea of disbanding divs to get stronger defies accepted logic was all i was saying.

yea it does it shouldnt be like that but at full drafted army your best off never upgrading a single division stick to upgrading brigades (since they involve more messing around to switch).

Even at +40 upgrade time and cost its still a considerably upgrade cost for SU with its central planning.
 
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Panzer Guderian said:
Once the purge 10% dissent hit was cleared

Isn't the hit now 30%? Haven't played a game yet so don't know...

Posted by BluEmu...

Another interesting change (again, if I'm reading the Event files correctly) is that the initial Russian Ground Defense Efficiency (which determines how many casualties they take in ground combat) has been drastically lowered to 0.2 and only slowly raises to 0.7 by 1943, if Russia is left alone... more quickly if Russia is attacked.

This will allow the Finns to inflict disproportionate losses on the Russians during the Winter War... and allows the Germans to score some quick successes during the opening phases of Barbarossa. As time goes by, the gap in technical efficiency will narrow, annd Russia will start catching up to the Germans and Allies.

All in all, it looks like Russia will be somewhat more difficult to play in v1.2, which suits me fine... the game was much too easy as Russia in the original version.