A Christian Pharoah

[Tommy4ever]

This is a rather strange question:

If during the CK period a Coptic Egyptian state emerged with a powerful Empire and an ambitious ruler in love with Egypt's glorius past would it be even possible for a great King of a Medieval Coptic Egypt to call himself Pharoah?

I know it seems rather far fetched, they would probably call themselves Emperor or something, I'd just like to know. This is for an AAR I'm currently working on and I'm not sure wether I'm going to have my Coptic Egyptian Kingdom turn into the land of the Pharoahs once more. . If its totally ridiculous though I'll give up on the idea.

Responses would be apreciated

 

[jordarkelf]

I doubt it. The pharaohs were pagans after all! If the Copts had somehow driven the muslims from their lands and gained control back, they probably would have styled themselves King (as the Copts and Nubians did until their realms were destroyed by islam).

 

[KonradRichtmark]

Copts = Egyptians = Egyptian Arabs.

Any distinction is meaningless. The Arabs were not foreign invaders who displaced the previous inhabitants. They were a relatively small group of foreign invaders who established themselves as the ruling elite, whereby a slow process of cultural melding-together started to happen. There are no significant cultural differences to speak of between Egyptian Muslims and Egyptian Christians.

 

[Tommy4ever]

Copts = Egyptians = Egyptian Arabs.

Any distinction is meaningless. The Arabs were not foreign invaders who displaced the previous inhabitants. They were a relatively small group of foreign invaders who established themselves as the ruling elite, whereby a slow process of cultural melding-together started to happen. There are no significant cultural differences to speak of between Egyptian Muslims and Egyptian Christians.

I meant a Coptic state as in the Coptic faith. It would have a mixed nobility of native Copts (I no they are the same ethnically but the speak a different language and don't consider themselves Arabs) and immigrants from Europe (who would adopt their culture).

You can't really say a different culture doesn't exist because they have the same ethnicity. Yes they are both descended from the same Egyptians but they have different religion, culture and language.

I doubt it. The pharaohs were pagans after all! If the Copts had somehow driven the muslims from their lands and gained control back, they probably would have styled themselves King (as the Copts and Nubians did until their realms were destroyed by islam).

Damn. That was my fear.


But this state is ruled by a mixed Coptic-Western nobility who are united by the Coptic Christian faith. Mabye these incommers (who have been stunned by the beauty and incredible nature of ancient Egypt) would try to have a Pharoah? The King would be a Western incommer and the most Egyptophile of the Egyptophiles.

 

[jordarkelf]

But this state is ruled by a mixed Coptic-Western nobility who are united by the Coptic Christian faith. Mabye these incommers (who have been stunned by the beauty and incredible nature of ancient Egypt) would try to have a Pharoah? The King would be a Western incommer and the most Egyptophile of the Egyptophiles.

Keep in mind that before the Renaissance, the pre-Christian realms were not seen in a good light. The people of the Eastern Roman Empire called themselves Romans, never Greeks -- to them Greeks were the barbaric heathens of their own dark ages (centuries before the west's), so this would have been an insult.
Likewise the Coptic and pre-islamic Nubian realms styled themselves on the mythical King Solomon rumoured to have lived somewhere in their area, not on the pagan Egypt of the Pharaohs.

Pre-christian Rome, Greece, and Egypt might have been admired for their heroics and legacy, but were not to be emulated in other ways. To do so would be to invite neo-paganism, a mortal sin.

Had a strong Europe-oriented Christian native (i.e. Coptic) Egypt arisen, it most likely would not see itself as the continuation of the pagan Old Egypt, but as a successor of (Eastern) Roman Imperial rule in the area. This means that the monarch would style himself either Emperor or King -- and Emperor could only be done if the ERE would not exist (provided the two nations want to avoid war). And if an ERE does not exist, we have to assume it has already fallen under the scimitars of Islam, making it very unlikely a Christian Egypt survives.