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Persipnei

First Lieutenant
64 Badges
Sep 22, 2011
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Dear Paradox,

It was a week before CIV5 came out, that I was lured to the Steam platform (CIV5 was Steam only), and Steam told me I was possibly interrested in EU3. It was my first contact with Paradox and it was love on first sight.

In the months after I bought the expansions for EU3, EU:Rome with its expansion, V2 with its expansions and HOI3 with its expansions. I was amazed by the level of detail in all these games. (1)

Then came CK2, the game that literally took most my free time for the next 5 years. It wasn't love, it was passion...

So far, so good...

I don't remember the moment I first got the feeling, but lurking these forums it seems I was not the only one... Those games in the generations marked by (1) felt complete, and barely had bugs, but the new generation of games - that started with CK2, then EU4 and now HOI4 and Stellaris, - although much more polished than the (1)-generation, always gave me a "in construction" - feeling.

There is always a DLC in the making, and when one is just released, the game is in a barely playable state because of bugs and/or balance issues. It took from the release of Stellaris to Utopia to make it in a OK-ish state to play. We're almost 3 months after M&M and I play without the DLC, because it is WOL-seduction all over again: everyone and his mum is in a society. Nobody in the world is following his original religion after 50 years of play... Seriously?

It also feels like the DLC quality is getting worse. M&M is in almost al vocal players eyes not finished. Some things who were told in the developer dairies were not existent in the actual DLC... I won't go so far to start comparing with No Man Sky, but the fact that I am mentioning this and that I was a real fanboy not so long ago, says a lot about the changes that PDS went through.

So far the rant...

Now for the constructive bit:

I understand why you, as a developer/publisher need frequent influx of money and the DLC model, where you release a new piece of code every 3-4 months, [edit] is perfect for that,[/edit] but it doesn't take a genius to see that you don't have a lot of time left to squash bugs and balance things in such a timespan. I would strongly advise to change the time between DLC's to 7-10 months. Make the DLC's a bit bigger, and ask 150% of the price, that seems fair if content is also 50% more in quantity and quality, but put more time in bugsquashing and balancing, please.

We had one patch after M&M that kinda balanced the satanists out, but I am starting to realise that I will not be able to use this DLC before the patch that will come out with the next DLC, because of the issues mentioned earlier. A DLC should have a quick patch in the week after to squash obvious game-breaking bugs (and you do that, thank you), then it should have another patch a week or two after to balance it out (and you do that, thank you), but this should continue until it is in a good state (so M&M should have had another patch 6 weeks ago to balance the secret societies and if, after that, there were still obvious problems, another patch should have been release soon after).

The future of PDS in my eyes:

You have brought the niche of grand strategy to the wider audience and have done that in an extraordinary way. I am very happy about that. That wider audience made PDS grow quite fast and the growing pains are getting obvious. There is a choice now: walk the path that the big developers go: full cashcow-style with less and less respect for your customers (this way you will lose your old fanboys, but there are enough casuals who play your games now, so who cares...), or take a deep breath, think about what made you great in the first place, and maybe earn a bit less in financial gains, but earn the respect and reputation you once had in the eyes of the fanboys.

A note to the developers:

It might look like I'm shooting at you, here. I am not. Although I don't always like the direction of the decisions you take, I am not blaming you for these problems. We all know capitalism is a bitch and it's the shareholders and CEO's that decide how long you can work on a DLC. I only know the name of one of the big bosses of PDS and it would be unfair to call him the villain of the story, because it's not only his call.


Sorry for the long post and the typos that will have accompanied it. English is only my third language and I'm writing this during my first cup of coffee.
 
It's pretty simple; stop buying the DLC if you don't like how Paradox does things. If they don't make any money from it, they'll change their strategy. A lone, or handful, of voices on the general forum won't change anything. It never does. Not once have I seen this type of thing affect any business, because you simply do not represent the majority of customers.
 
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I understand why you, as a developer/publisher need frequent influx of money and the DLC model, where you release a new piece of code every 3-4 months, [edit] is perfect for that,[/edit] but it doesn't take a genius to see that you don't have a lot of time left to squash bugs and balance things in such a timespan. I would strongly advise to change the time between DLC's to 7-10 months. Make the DLC's a bit bigger, and ask 150% of the price, that seems fair if content is also 50% more in quantity and quality, but put more time in bugsquashing and balancing, please.
So you are suggesting that PDS should spend 100% more time on DLC, while increasing the price by 50%? Or in other words: earn less money for the same amount of work?

Like many others, I have my issues with the DLC model. The obvious problem is that more features get added to Paradox games which more and more increases the technological debt. I have yet to see a reasonable solution for this problem though that does not result in PI earning less money. I personally think the solution lies somewhere in hiring a lot more QA personnel and increase the developer team sizes, but that (again) costs more money.
 
I have some issues with the DLC policy as well but we must be completely realistic here, money wins over fanboys any day and PDS used to launch games with deep flaws that sometimes would endure a couple of years just to get fixed. They had less DLCs but also less overall mechanics (I don't think there is any game up to Vicky2 that could compete with any CK2 or EUIV content-wise, two somewhat mature games) and it was mandatory to buy DLCs just to fix bugs. It's indeed a costlier world but a better one.

Charging money for blitzkrieg move in HoI4 was a terrible, terrible mistake though.
 
I played a lot of Vicky II lately and it felt realy good because the game is complete. Like you said these older games don't have this "it is in construction" feeling.
Since I stopped buying the latest DLCs I also stopped playing these games. Sadly the argument "you don't need the DLCs to play" doesn't work for me. I always get the feeling of missing something or that the product is incomplete and the more DLCs I miss the less interest I have in these games.
F. e. CKII was released over 5 years ago. Is it not time to say that the product is finished?
I would love to see that your future games would get some major addons with an over all shorter life cycle like it was once with Vicky 2, EU 3 and HoI 3.
 
I played a lot of Vicky II lately and it felt realy good because the game is complete. Like you said these older games don't have this "it is in construction" feeling.
Since I stopped buying the latest DLCs I also stopped playing these games. Sadly the argument "you don't need the DLCs to play" doesn't work for me. I always get the feeling of missing something or that the product is incomplete and the more DLCs I miss the less interest I have in these games.
F. e. CKII was released over 5 years ago. Is it not time to say that the product is finished?
I would love to see that your future games would get some major addons with an over all shorter life cycle like it was once with Vicky 2, EU 3 and HoI 3.

I understand what you mean with the feeling of not having content. for some strange reason when I see a pdx game that I don't have a dlc for I don't want to play it until I do. after some time I was able to get over this feeling by just booting the game up and playing. however I still feel that way somewhat because I don't want to play china since I don't have new EU4 dlc.
on the CKII part they are finishing the game. the next dlc will be the last one iirc.
I was never here for the older generation of pdx games but I do like their newer dlc model more. it allows for the game to evolve more in the direction the fans want and allows more content to be added.
 
I like the idea behind the current DLC model where you only have to buy stuff if you want the new features. However, I dislike the current release/development schedule as it has contributed to a significant erosion in quality. After a DLC releases they should be taking at least 3-4 months to squash the bugs and adjust balance issues before diving headlong into development of the next DLC. I don't expect DLCs to come without bugs but I shouldn't always have to play with a number of bugs because after a hot-fix or two of the most egregious issues they are on to the next DLC and no more fix patches are released.

Note this applies solely to gameplay DLC, they can release all the sprite / music packs they want
 
You came at a funny time then. They have made a demonstrably conscience push to higher QA. The first CK for example was extremely buggy. They've got better. That said I definitely support them putting money into the development studio to make games that made PDS great. I would love to see PI putting money into PDS so that PDS can meet the demand of it's core base. New Vicky and new Rome are overdue. I was extremely disappointed that when they sold off some of the company they did so to raise capital for mobile markets and "new" markets rather than trying to meet demand. So I'm with you when you say deliver to the corebase and do what made paradox great however I've witnessed PDS get a lot better when it comes to buggy releases.
 
Yeah, CK2 was hailed as a landmark improvement for them because it was actually playable at all on release. Forget major bugs, before that you were lucky if a PDS game didn't crash constantly and all the major systems worked in any way at release.
 
Sounds like what you're noticing is that the mature games are in better shape than the not so mature games. What you're missing is that that was always the case and not something specific to the more recent generation of PDS games.

Obviously they do have their issues, the initial release of Stellaris 1.6 was catastrophically bad to the point that I find it hard to believe that any QA was done on that release whatsoever. But for the most part these games are in a constant state of improvement.