A Dirty Secret

[LordofSaxony]

Basically, this is a trait that is secret from everyone aside from the character him/herself and possibly his closest servants. The trait comes in many forms, and while it's a secret and not known to the public it has the appearance of "Secret [bad trait]" and if known to the world the "Secret" is removed from the front of it. These can be quite damaging to a person, especially a ruler or an heir, and the problems that come with these negative traits could come in many forms. The best way to combat this, is to never have these traits known to the world. Some of these could be..

Secret Cross-Dresser - If male he dresses like a woman in secret, or if female she dresses like a man in secret.

Secret Heretic - In public this person is vocal about his Christian religion, but in secret he's officially a heretic.

Secret Sadomasochist - He likes love and pain on a level that isn't considered civilized. If they pious find out, they may be angered by this secret fetish.

Secret Insanity - This person drools, babbles and foams, and is completely loony. The level of insanity is kept from the public, but if they only knew.

Secret Incest - Secretly in love with sister/brother/father/daughter/son. If it becomes known the pious may become outraged.

Secret Paranoia - He is convinced that someone is out to get him. This has lead him to imprison, murder, and execute many innocents who he believed to be out to get him.

Secret Kleptomaniac - He steals anything that isn't nailed down, and he can't stop himself from doing it. This may damage relations among friends.

Secret Perversion - This character has a love for something that isn't considered civilized and goes against nature.

Secret Murderer - This person loves to kill, and he purposely executes criminals and hostages personally, and even his cook if he gets his lunch late. If this becomes known the populace may view him as uncivilized and brutal.
​

Also, I think the Spymaster would love this. There could be an option to 'Dig Up Dirt' on an enemy, which *may* reveal any secret traits he has to his population, therefore damaging his standing, causing possible realm duress, damaging relations, etc. Perhaps this will cost a sum of money each time to finance this mission, as well as if caught could damage relations between your ruler and the rival.

To defend against this, your Spymaster + ruler ranking could help protect against other enemies from doing this to your ruler or heir. Think of it as a barrier that enemies need to get past before any secrets are revealed, the higher the combined score increases the % that enemies must get past to make this happen. And/or this also could be a selectable and passive skill that you can pick for the Spymaster, such as a Counter-Intelligence which also incorporates protecting your ruler against any smearing campaigns from rivals.

These dirty secrets wouldn't be something that is common, and could be influenced by actions you take with events, and possibly if you have the inbred trait it may be more likely to gain one.

Thoughts? Think it would add a bit of an RPG element to the game? Since this is a game with a large variety of traits, it would be nice to have those secret traits too.

 

[S0ny B1ack]

I post somethink similar in the thread about 3 things we would like to seen in CK2.

So I like the idea I also support the additional order to 'Dig Up Dirt', and I would love it if the traitorous trait would also be hidden (I don't see why you should immediatly know when someone is a traitor)

Especially for the traitorous trait I would love to see some events for the traitor, who could choose to stay hidden, or try to get some other vassals on his side (the second option would have the effect that he would maybe make other characters traitors, too, but there would be a chance that his trait would become public)

 

[Beleg32]

I love the idea, what can I say, it would definitely add a bit of an RPG element . Keep those ideas coming and this idea should be implemented in full version for sure.

 

[czam2007]

Thats a good idea and would give the spymaster something to do

 

[enf91]

Of course, if your spymaster is disloyal, he should work against you, too.

 

[Rysz]

Great idea, but the "order" to Dig is not a good idea, as it will lead to micro-management.

Better is it to have a random chance, influenced by the Spy Masters' ability (both your own, and the opposite one, if applicable).

 

[Hellvink]

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

The more 'stuff' in the vanilla game to give it that extra RPG edge the better.

 

[Diet of Worms]

I really like this idea, but I think this is a fair point:

Great idea, but the "order" to Dig is not a good idea, as it will lead to micro-management.

Better is it to have a random chance, influenced by the Spy Masters' ability (both your own, and the opposite one, if applicable).

You don't want the optimum action for the player to be to endlessly spam the order. However, just having it as a background random event with no player input would be a shame.

How about you have a very small random chance (maybe 1 chance in 4 in the average lifespan) that the whole thing comes straight out in the open, something like: "A visiting Bishop has caught you and the sheep in a compromising position." The character could maybe try to bribe their way out of it, but if that fails then all is revealed.

But a larger chance would be "Rumours are spreading about the time you spend alone with Flossy." The chances based on all sorts of things like court loyalty, other traits, your spymaster etc. These rumours might be picked up by other spymasters depending on how good they are.

Nothing bad should happen at that point - and you could even have false rumours happening occasionally - but if your spymaster picks up on one then you could have a spy action to try to bring it out in the open. With the chance of some harsh penalties if the spymaster not only fails to find proof, but gets caught digging for it.

 

[LordofSaxony]

Great idea, but the "order" to Dig is not a good idea, as it will lead to micro-management.

Better is it to have a random chance, influenced by the Spy Masters' ability (both your own, and the opposite one, if applicable).

Maybe we're picturing two different things, I was thinking that a player would use this opportunity to potentially harm a rival's image, perhaps even making his/her kingdom fall apart a bit in the process. In a way, it's sort of an abstract strategic element working behind the scenes. I wouldn't say this would be micromanaged because you are not using this on everyone, since it could very well cost money (and perhaps more) each time you do it. Each time you send a Spymaster it could take 3 months to do it, so you could only do it 4 times per year at most, and since you only have a single Spymaster that is the maximum that you can do it.

Basically, in a nutshell, I viewed it as being able to target another rival for a smear campaign that could be potentially damaging.

 

[unmerged(31881)]

Given the importance attached to it, and opportunities for skullduggery... perhaps illegitimacy could be added to the list?

 

[The Andy-Man]

I love the idea, but maybe the best way to implement it would be to borrow the 'Framed' event chain from MM, and so the secret doesn't always have to be true, especially with an illigitimacy event.

This kind of thing could give a whole new meaning to 'Byzantine' politics.

 

[LordofSaxony]

Given the importance attached to it, and opportunities for skullduggery... perhaps illegitimacy could be added to the list?

How would that be worded? I'm trying to think in game terms what would flag that. If a bastard is recognized in the game, then people would already know it. Although.. if the father was someone else (your wife's Mister), then that would make sense. But, how would they know? Looks?

I love the idea, but maybe the best way to implement it would be to borrow the 'Framed' event chain from MM, and so the secret doesn't always have to be true, especially with an illigitimacy event.

This kind of thing could give a whole new meaning to 'Byzantine' politics.

I have no idea how that works (I've never played MM), but it sounds pretty cool.

 

[unmerged(80455)]

Basically, this is a trait that is secret from everyone aside from the character him/herself and possibly his closest servants. The trait comes in many forms, and while it's a secret and not known to the public it has the appearance of "Secret [bad trait]" and if known to the world the "Secret" is removed from the front of it. These can be quite damaging to a person, especially a ruler or an heir, and the problems that come with these negative traits could come in many forms. The best way to combat this, is to never have these traits known to the world. Some of these could be..

Secret Sadomasochist - He likes love and pain on a level that isn't considered civilized. If they pious find out, they may be angered by this secret fetish.
​

I just thought I'd point out that maybe he enjoys dealing the pain as well, in the strict definition of the term. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

There could be a few more, like the secret bastard discussed earlier. However there is also ones like "Secret Muslim/Pagan/Christian/Jew/Other". If there is a secret heretic, why not be it secret you practice another religion?

I don't think will work secret insanity would work as the king would need to meet with others and he would likely be retired.

One last thing, these should have traits or effects associated with them if found out otherwise they shouldn't be included.

 

[The Andy-Man]

I have no idea how that works (I've never played MM), but it sounds pretty cool.

The 'framed' event sequence is a rather brutal torture inflicted on players of Magna Mundi, where by everything goes FUBAR for about 20 years.

Maybe someone else can explain better?

 

[unmerged(133776)]

For some reason, I don't see the benefit of having all characters (or a random %) having 'hidden' secrets. When do they get them? At birth, during child-hood or randomly during their life?

Wouldn't the same result happen to randomly give a targeted character a bad trait when you sic your Spy-Master on them? It might even depend on their current traits, no matter how good your Spy-Master is, they might not 'have' any secrets to dig up?

That's not to say it could an interesting addition to the game.

A different approach I've thought about, why shouldn't the traits of a member of your Court and/or family have a bearing on how others perceive you? For example - Mad Uncle Boris. Maybe a little loss of prestige as long as you keep him locked up in his room in the castle, but if you make him your Chancellor or give him his own Titles, others should think you are mad to do so or weak. Or your eldest daughter gets herself in trouble and has a bastard child. That should have an effect on you also, unless once again you 'hide' her and the child away.

Or, per a previous example given out - a child is actually a Bastard. Isn't that the Mother's dirty little secret? Once revealed it would deny the child his inheritance but it should also reflect badly on the Ruler/husband/family.

 

[Negru Voda]

Should the hits be bigger for Ecclesiestical Educated men?

Say I get exocomunicated by the Pope... then I reveal that he's getting it on kinky style.. shouldn't that ruin him?

Also, bad relations (or worse) rivalry against your own spymaster increases the chances he'll blackmail you, or outright rattle on you.

 

[terasjykke]

Would it be possible that every trait could be secret or open. Open traits works as in CK1. Secret traits affects only character who have those.

If character has any secret traits s/he might get random events where choises are: keep your secret and get stressed trait (or worse) OR reveal your secret trait. There should be some events that spymaster makes characters' secret trait open.

Some traits would automatically be open (proud, valorous etc) others would be secret unless opened by character or spymaster (via random events).

 

[unmerged(61650)]

good idea

 

[th3freakie]

Inspired by Obama were we?