A few questions on siege

[Hartmann]

1) Have the cannons a positive affect on siege itself or only when assaulting?
2) How many cannons do I need (absolute numbers or percentage) to significantly affect siege/assault?
3) How long should a siege last? If winter comes, should I withdraw and come back in spring (or is it better to stay and take the attrition losses)?
4) When exactly is a fortress 'ripe for assault'?
5) Lastly: When playing minors with default 1/0/1 leaders, I nevertheless mostly manage to win in the field through better tactics. On the other hand, I find it almost impossible to effectively besiege a fortress and win a province within an acceptable timespan (spring to autumn). Is there anything I can do in general to improve my performance?

Hartmann

 

[Hartmann]

Hi Hartmann, after playing on for many hours, I´m ready answering these questions for You:

1&2) Screw the cannons
3) Without a proper leader, sieges will always take a year. Take the winter losses, as withdrawing will cancel all Your previous efforts, i.e. the following siege will again last a year.
4) Never as long as there´s no super-leader and overwhelming odds.
5) See 3)

Hartmann

 

[unmerged(366)]

1) Yes, they have an effect on the siege.
2) Dunno, mate, but ye needs a few to assault a fortress of greater size than 3, unless you're prepared to take heavy losses in those poor grunts.
3) My sieges last for years and years. But that's just because I'm cruel and spiteful.
4) When you see the enemy morale going down to maybe half? And when the text says '3 months' or 'eine halbes jahres' or somesuch. I've noticed this makes for a more successful assault.
5) If the fortress is of lvl 1 or 2, a hearty assault with 10k men is usually enough for me, as long as no stray enemy army routs me in the final assault. Take care to annihilate all enemies before assaulting!

 

[Hartmann]

Thank You, Jinxed . Considering their price, I think the cannons have too less an effect at least with level 2 fortresses.

Hartmann

 

[unmerged(23)]

Cannons are sueful despite what many people are saying.

The 'problem' is that you need more than a bunch of them to have a significant influence in the siege.

You can reduce fortresses quite fast with 20 cannons at the beginning of the GC.
If the province can supply your besieging army, you will have very few losses to attrition in regards of what you would have loose if you had assaulted the city.

It's a matter of balance : money, manpower and objectives.

Countries who lack money should disdain cannons, countries who have a good manpower supply can consider to assault rather than besiege, if you want a quick war, assault *can* be the solution. *can* because keep in mind that each assault will decrease your armies strength.

------------------
Pierre
Retired EU Beta Tester

 

[unmerged(199)]

1) Yes - they gradually reduce the resistance level of the fortress (number to the right). Fortresses will tend to surrender once they get below -5. Of course the cannon will usually all have died of attrition long before this happens.
2) My experience is something like 5-10 times the amount of cannon allows for a faster siege. Again, the problem is that the cannon will die of attrition faster than the fortress falls.
3) Siege should last max 3-4 months or its taken too long. You need to leave a significant force to keep up the siege, or the surrender level will recover.
4) When it is at -4 surrender level or below, it can usually be stormed with good results.
5) Funny - 100 years into the GC, I no longer ever seem to win on the field. On the other hand, in my recent wars with Sweden (as Denmark), I manage to gobble up 2-3 provinces a year.

The most effective use of cannon (IMO):
1) Put them with a Conquistador (reduces attrition losses significantly - even during a siege).
2) Assault the fortress immediately. If you have a large amount of cannon (at least 5-10 times as many seem to work), they will heavily reduce defender morale during the fire phase and maybe allow you to succeed.
3) A few cannon can be useful if you have a small army just besieging a province while the main army is occupied elsewhere.

My Tactics:
1) Screw the Cannons.
2) Get a historical leader. A historical leader with +1 siege can take fortresses even with a minimal number of men.
3) If no good leader, build 30-80k men (for lvl 2 fortresses) and just assault the fortress until it falls or all of the defenders are dead (latter is more common than the former). You'll loose less troops this way than if you waste time besieging them.

This may change beyond lvl 3 fortresses, as attrition is reduced by military advance and the fortresses become better, but I haven't found out yet.

 

[Hartmann]

Thanx, strategy. But what does 'at least 5-10 times as many' exactly mean? Compared to the number of cannons in the fortress? That would often mean a HUGE amount!

Hartmann

 

[unmerged(199)]

Yes.

100-120 cannon can often blow its way through a lvl2 fortress in short order. Much less will tend to bog down and loose the assault. I've also tried with 200 cannon (figuring that this should make it even easier), but they simply loose too much from attrition.

If you fight in this way, it is extremely important to have +3 maneuver leaders to move with the cannon, and to retire to one's own territory during the winter.

But then when you think about it - 40k infantry can easily achieve the same effect as 100-120 cannon and 30k infantry, so there really isn't much point in building the cannon. When I start having to assault lvl 3+ fortresses, I may change my opinion - but then it is always much easier to go for their easy fortresses (and those areas you want in the peace treaty) - after all, you're only after the stars.

 

[unmerged(366)]

*LOL*

No wonder you guys lose so many cannon to attrition! 200 pieces in one siege? Jesu Christo!
Remember, 10 cannon take up as much supplies as 1000 inf! And since you mostly have no more than 18-24 supplypoints to play with + whatever your leader adds, you can ill afford sieging with a huge army!

Granted, in my current game of european domination with Sweden, my campaigns are mostly centered on germany, and I don't have to worry too much about attrition in the winter.

I VERY seldom use armies numbering more than 40k, and usually an army of no more than 30k is enough to take a lvl 3 fortress, with casualties numbering about 10-14k if you're in luck.
However, the same fortress can be taken if you have the time to wait, with 10-15k inf and 20-30 cannon. And if you're not struck by winter, virtually NO attrition losses. This usually takes 1.5 years or so, but meanwhile, I'm busy elsewhere, so no biggie.

A very good tactic to use for quick star-racking, is taking the capital early on in the conflict. This is exceedingly easy when you're at war in europe, since the capital is seldom far away. Take the provinces you would like, and they usually give them up once you've got their king by the throat or preferably in a guilloutine.

So in short: Learn when and how to use yer fricken artillerycorps, guys!

 

[unmerged(199)]

Originally posted by Jinxed:
Remember, 10 cannon take up as much supplies as 1000 inf! And since you mostly have no more than 18-24 supplypoints to play with + whatever your leader adds, you can ill afford sieging with a huge army

So I found - however I rarely besiege; I just assault and conquor and for that 120 cannon usually make a very efficient weapon, in my experience (though not in high attrition provinces - in germany/poland they work very well). The 200 cannon was an experiment (and one which didn't work since the effect was negligible).

Now I just use large infantry armies and assault the enemy to death. The last 2 wars I've fought in this way have started in March and ended in January of the following year (with 2 territories + indemnity from each war). With conquistadors leading the big armies, attrition is quite low - and with concentrated fighting, I can usually average 2-3 provinces in a year of fighting per army. Very efficient, not?

But agreed - if you have time to wait, and the enemy does not have any historical leaders, then long sieges with small forces are okay. With a nation without historical generals against a nation with historical generals (e.g. Denmark vs Sweden), prolonged wars = loosing wars.

My preference = Quick victorious war!

 

[unmerged(23)]

Recruiting 30-80k just to assault fortresses is not so easy depending of the country you are playing.

Think : Portugal

Just put cannons with a small army to besiege. Avois to group them with 40k army. If you have 40k soldiers, better to assault in almost any case.
In a small army, attrition will not hit your cannons so hard and they will be effective.

------------------
Pierre
Retired EU Beta Tester