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A Free Finland scenario...

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ErrantOne

ErrantOne

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May 8, 2001
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I have been thinking about making a 'free Finland' scenario and started to look into it a little bit this morning. I thought I recall finland being a revolter???? When I looked around I could not find anything to support this assumption of mine. This means starting from scratch to make a scenario.

Post something if you are interested in playing this type of scenario.

Here is what I was thinking:

1)based on IGC 2.1-1520 (IGC2.2 when it comes out).
2)need a likely list of provinces that are historically Finnish.
3)need to develop a likely set of diplo-relations based on any historical information available.
3)need a flag/shield.
4)need an available country ID, or will steal one.
5)need monarch/leader info.
6)in thinking about the overall difficulty of the scenario, it should be VERY challenging for Finland to break from SWE.
7)(maybe)add historic monarch events, if we have any historical basis for them.

If an interested person could do some research on Finnish history this would help give this 'what-if' scenario a better historic feel.


:cool:
ErrantOne
 
Finland didn't become independent before 1917 (from Russia). but there are few revolts before that, major one being nuijasota which would translate to clubwar (club as a blunt instrument used to hit someone) 1596-1597 (also last major peasant uprising in scandinavia).
Most famous leader of this uprising was a Ostrobotnian (Österbotten in EU) peasant named Jaakko Ilkka.
First real try to get Finland out of Sweden was done 1788 by 112 Finnish and Swedish officers in Anjala a village in south-eastern Finland. These officers were the first men to set Finland on the way towards independence.

answers
2)At least Provinces of ÖsterBotten, Finland, Savolaks, Nyland and Tavastland also possibly Ingermanland and Karelia as these areas are largely settled by finns and closely related karelians.

3)Relations are very hard to decide on as there wasn't really any kind of national movement at that time and so mostly other nations viewed the war as only a large rebellion. the coat of arms did exist allready during the period and at least from 1591 onwards it seems to be quite unchanged (picture of coat of arms from the tomb of Gustav Vasa can be found at http://personal.inet.fi/koti/pauli.kruhse/pic/arma.jpg )
National flag didn't exist during the period (first versions of the blue cross on white background are from mid 19th century).

5&7)There are no historical monarchs for Finland as Finland really wasn't independent at any time during the EU Period.
 
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I would not mind adding "Free Finland" as a fantasy option in the IGC Config. The KAL tag would be especially appropriate if it could be freed up.

The way I envision it, Finland would have to be a vassal to Sweden, with very good relations and a military alliance. Thus, when played by a computer it would often be annexed by Sweden.

Of course, the only historical justification for such a division would be some kind of Swedish civil war, where the Duke of Finland ruled "Eastern Sweden". It might have happened, for example during the struggle between Erik XIV and Duke Johan.

Fortunately, I don't have to provide historical backgrounds for my changes. :D
 
Actually if i remeber correctly Finland was for a short while part of Denmark as Gustav Vasa left the finnish territories unreclaimed for couple of years while stabilising his position in Sweden after breaking up from Denmark. Not sure though how correct my memory is this time :).
 
Well, I wouldn't exactly say Finland was a _part_ of Denmark at any time (although many nobles there where still loyal to Union King Christian II), but it is true that Gustav Vasa did not immediately gain control of it.
 
The relations should be: vassal to sweden, mil alliance with sweden, good relations to sweden.
to the rest of the world, about the same as sweden.... maby hate denmark less.

there is a scnario wic is pretty much this, norden1.
 
I would not mind adding "Free Finland" as a fantasy option in the IGC Config. The KAL tag would be especially appropriate if it could be freed up.
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Very glad to hear this Doomy. I think it would be the ideal solution and would like to assist in whatever way possible.


How does this sound?

2)At least Provinces of ÖsterBotten, Finland, Savolaks, Nyland and Tavastland also possibly Ingermanland and Karelia as these areas are largely settled by finns and closely related karelians.
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2) Provinces:
National provinces: OsterBotten, Finland, Savolaks, Nyland, Tavastland, Ingermanland and Karelia.

Controlled provinces: Finland, Savolaks, Nyland, Tavastland.

IGCconfig tool would have a 'Free Finland' and "KLA Ingermanland" options.

3a)Diplo relations--
The relations should be: vassal to sweden, mil alliance with sweden, good relations to sweden.
to the rest of the world, about the same as sweden.... maby hate denmark less.
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This seems reasonable as a start, especially denmark. A newly independant country would be looking for a friend or two. Add the mil-alliance with SWE as doomy suggested.

3b)Graphics --McGuinn, as usual, is way ahead and already has a good looking shield/flag, IMO. Please scroll down the first page and have a look. http://uk.geocities.com/jw_mcguinn/

4)KAL can be used Doomdark? Who currently uses it?

5) For historical monarchs/leaders, were there any notable Finnish Officers in the Swedish armies of the time? Any people of note in Finnish history who could be used as monarchs/leaders? (local/regional nobles, mayors, military officers, rebels --anything) If someone from Finland could do a bit of research for basically any leader of note during the period, this would help quite a bit. Any gaps could be filled in with non-historical people (with real Finnish names).

6)If doomy can put this the IGC, this would be ideal.
The way I envision it, Finland would have to be a vassal to Sweden, with very good relations and a military alliance. Thus, when played by a computer it would often be annexed by Sweden.
Click to expand...

Assuming this goes into the 1492 scenario here are some proposed initial settings.

stability: -2 (same as SWE)
starting army: small
starting navy: very small
starting cash: 50
merchants: none
colonists: none
Diplomats: none
Religion: Catholic
tech group: Latin or Orthodox?

SWE and DAN start in a mil-alliance in 1492?


:cool:
ErrantOne
 
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ErrantOne, you are godsent :D I just recently asked if Free Finland fantasy option could be added to IGC and now someone (you) have decided to make one :D

While I my self am finnish my self my knowledge of history of that period is lagging, unfortunately :( (I have been interested in history and read a lot but mostly roman era and world wars) and also my time is allready reserved (following progress of 4 games atm).

Good luck with the scenario :) I'll play it instantly when its released :p
 
Thanks Tonhur,

If doomy can add this to the IGC then he is the real godsend. Any chance you could take a break from your games sometime soon and help research monarch/leaders? In the end we dont have to have real people and could just make them up, but it would add some depth to it if at least some of them were historic leaders of some type from Finland's past.


:cool:
ErrantOne
 
I COULD ofcource, if I rob the local library ;) and decrease attemption on those games for time being (no I can't stop playing them and checking their forums, I need to know what's happening in them too. Oh and 4th game was ofcource EU :D ).

I'll see if I can find good source book from the library, my own books are mostly of the periods I said before.
 
KAL tag is currently used by Novgorod rebel, and since everybody wants to delete Novgorod rebel, why don't they replace it with Finish rebel?
 
I will never drop Novgorod as a revolter in the regular IGC. ;)

However, the KAL tag may still be used in a fantasy option by switching it out dynamically in the config tool.

As for Finnish monarchs, they would either have to be completely fictional or based on some powerful noble family with strong ties to Finland (E.g. Horn, Boije af Gennäs, Roos, Agricola). Fictional ones are probably best.
 
This is a fantasy option so why cant the leaders and monarches be fantsy ones to?
It is the easiest and just as realistic as taking historical leaders.
A swedish general wouldnt go to war and risk its life for another country=)
 
I will never drop Novgorod as a revolter in the regular IGC.
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I love revolters when they happen in game. Unfortunately, they mostly revolt and get mil-annexed quickly. :( I now have the habit helping out any revolters as soon as they appear. I use a cheat code to get extra money then give it to them. It at least gives them a slightly better chance to survive a little longer. In one game Novgorod popped up during the time of troubles and actually survived for about 20-30years. In another game aragon popped up and was around for almost 50years and was part of my mil-alliance(me as the mameluks). I really wanted to help them so I dowed the nubians early on in the alliance and this made them actually build and army (40k). Spain DoWed & gobbled them up much latter, while their army ran off and sieged some random spanish province :(

We can never forget the corsician and sicilian rebels either!

:cool:
ErrantOne
 
I've seen those revolter isles exist for very long spells. Which was nice :D Corsica, Sardinia and Sicily :D Also had Catalunya in a game. I was France so I immediately allied with them :D
 
Originally posted by ErrantOne



SWE and DAN start in a mil-alliance in 1492?


:cool:
ErrantOne
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I dont think this is good, because Sweden dosent have good relations with Denmark. I know that Sweden and Denmark is allied almost the whole time when AI is Sweden but.......
Its just MY thought.

//EU_proof//
 
ErrantOne... you really do a good job... but when you are working in that area already, maybe a free Estonia scenario as well ? ;)
 
Originally posted by Eu_proof

I dont think this is good, because Sweden dosent have good relations with Denmark. I know that Sweden and Denmark is allied almost the whole time when AI is Sweden but.......
Its just MY thought.

//EU_proof//
Click to expand...
'


I thought he wrote wrong and meant SWE and FIN...... awaits your reply errant one.
 
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