Byzantium is the eternal underdog. Even if they're the most powerful nation in the world I can't help but root for them. =\ It's part of the reason I like this AAR so much, seeing Navarra and the Greeks do so well.
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I'm hoping the Byzies will crush the Timurids absolutely, and then promptly collapse into a hundred warring Greek states.
I don't play euiii, but is it because of the Dutch Van Vlaanderan's ruling the French?
E: oh it's because of an excommunication.
E: oh it's because of an excommunication.
The technology map was very interesting, it seems a relatively small number of countries have made good progress, while much of western Europe is falling behind.
Very much enjoyed the overview of the world, Central Asia and Eastern Europe have seen the consolidation of many states. It will be interesting to see whether in this alternative history the West of Europe remains a relatively poor and fragmented region, with Denmark and England being the only exceptions. When colonisation does begin, it looks likely to be Germanic in character rather than Latin!
Very much enjoyed the overview of the world, Central Asia and Eastern Europe have seen the consolidation of many states. It will be interesting to see whether in this alternative history the West of Europe remains a relatively poor and fragmented region, with Denmark and England being the only exceptions. When colonisation does begin, it looks likely to be Germanic in character rather than Latin!
If I'm not mistaken, the English Kings are descended from the French line, so I think the colonization will still partially be Latin, although definitely more mixed that it was in our timeline due to the mixing of Saxon, Norman, Irish and Norwegian.
as long as the byzies don't annex their large vassals like FUNJ they should be ok. i think the empire needs to be a little bit bigger for the rebel hunting ineptitude of the AI to kick in. if the byzies decide to go holy warring in india and drive up the'r WE then we could have a death spiral, but still, if FUNJ starts doing rebel hunting for the Byzies they might even pull through that.
I'm glad people enjoyed the global update. And yes, the van Vlaanderen's are French but actually, I think there's been less mixing than in OTL, since the Saxons ruled England until well into the 14th century. As to the Byzantines, I'm not sure annexing the vassals would hurt them that much since they did a pretty good job of religious and cultural conversion in CK2: Funj is 80% Greek culture and completely Orthodox. But if they do plow into India, they may fall apart like Alexander's empire.
Which, if I may say, would be awesome. This alternate universe keeps getting more interesting. What's next? Communist Basque Mexican Great Power? We can only hope.
I am really surprised the new world hasn't been discovered yet. Should be interesting to see how much this alternate world lags behind our real one by the time you have to convert to Victoria II.
I am also quite glad that nobody is colonizing Africa yet. It always bugged me that in my games Spain and Portugal would always colonize most of Africa's coast while waiting for government 9 tech.
I am also quite glad that nobody is colonizing Africa yet. It always bugged me that in my games Spain and Portugal would always colonize most of Africa's coast while waiting for government 9 tech.
If this goes anything like my mega campaign handsoff things are going to be very very ugly by the end of Victoria.
Wow. A tiny enclave Brazil, lots of remaining Native American states, wandering Bavaria... Yikes.
THE FRENCH EXCOMMUNICATION WARS AND ‘LA TOURMENTE’, 1503-1586.
While almost every country in Europe suffered some upheaval during the Reformation, nowhere was the conflict more severe than in France, where the time known as ‘La Tourmente’ spanned almost the entire century. Less than five years after the beginning of Knyphausen’s revolution, the majority of Christian congregations over large areas of the country had broken free from Rome. This new ‘Protestant’ movement was particularly strong in the country’s eastern border regions, along the northern coast, in the southwest, and in the Alpine passes. Although King Louis XIII van Vlaanderen tried to encourage toleration, passing the Edict de Nantes in an effort to reduce tensions, this failed to prevent a religious revolt that had begun in neighboring Burgundy spilling over into Sens, where the rebels soon besieged the capitol.city of Nemours.
A religious map of France in 1503:
Angry that the King was not doing enough to suppress the rising revolt against the True Faith, Pope Clemens VIII excommunicated him. Even the subsequent passing of the conventicle act was insufficient to mollify the Pope. In normal circumstances, an excommunication placed a ruler in considerable difficulty but some, like the late Queen Ragnhild of Denmark had flouted the Pope’s authority for decades. But circumstances in France in the early 16th century were not normal, and the situation quickly spiraled out of control.
When they saw that France was struggling to keep order—and having been given a carte blanche by the Pope to make war as they saw fit—its neighbors began to circle like vultures, seeking some of its rich lands. Austria and Etruria attacked its provinces on the Po plain in the summer of 1506. By the spring of 1507, England and Sweden had launched invasions from the north and Burgundy was pressing its western borders. Each of these countries brought a few minor allies with them into the war.
The beleaguered French army could not defend against so many enemies at once, and soon Louis was forced to start exchanging land for peace. Queen Mary of England was bought off cheaply, but Queen Constance Billung of Austria not only demanded control of Brescia but insisted that the French release the northern coast as a new country called Normandy in 1508. The ink had barely dried on those treaties when France faced new opponents. In the fall, Bohemia and a gaggle of allies from eastern Europe including Danzig and Prussia, joined the fray.
By 1509, France’s weakness was so obvious that small states like the Papal States, Scotland, Finland and Sardinia began to attack. Still hoping to get out of this morass with his country more or less intact, King Louis ceded Dijon to Burgundy. But things grew steadily worse. Breton patriots rebelled in the northwest of France and eventually pledged themselves to Leinster, with which they shared historical and cultural ties. Valladolid broke free and the new self-styled Marques de Valladolid announced his loyalty to Castille. Genoa, Flanders and even tiny Galicia declared war on France.
In February of 1511, Pope Clemens finally lifted the King’s excommunication, but by then so much of France was under foreign control that peace could only be bought at steep prices. Sweden was given France’s last possessions in Iberia and most of its African lands as well. The rich province of Valenciennes was ceded to Bohemia and the Duke of Orleans was released from his dependence on France, and shortly afterward pledged to become a vassal of Bohemia. And in the west of the country, Protestant rebels had seized control of two provinces and proclaimed the independent Kingdom of Berry, Worse news for Louis: the newly anointed King Charles de Broye was determined to add all the Occitain-speaking lands of France to his kingdom.
France in 1512:
Though Louis was neither an able administrator nor a capable military leader, he was a good diplomat, and he used every ounce of negotiating skill he could to bring peace about as cheaply as possible. He was able to persuade many of the smaller nations, even those occupying significant territory, to leave with little or no compensation. But the country was being torn apart by rebellions. In 1513, the eastern provinces defected to the protestant Archbishop of Hamburg, and Louis fled Nemours to the city of Asti.
The Austrians attacked again later that year, and brought in a host of allies including Etruria, Toulouse and Normandy. This time there was no religious excuse for the invasion, merely naked greed. Within a year France had been forced to give up still more territory to Austria, Galicia and Normandy.
In1515, Louis died and was succeeded by his son Nicolas Henri, but there was no respite from the rebellions. Rheinlaender rebels drove Nicolas Henri from Asti and pledged their allegiance to Burgundy. The desperate King hid behind the high walls of the Chateau de Vincennes on the eastern outskirts of Paris, but the Ile de France, too, was largely under rebel control. Over the next few years much of the north came under the control of Flanders, and Calais was lost to Sardinia. With royal authority losing all meaning, rebels tore off pieces of the country and joined their neighbors in Aquileia, Berry, Navarra and Austria. The southwest of the country broke away forming the Kingdom of Foix in 1521. France had been much reduced in size, and still faced invaders from its former subjects in Normandy, Berry and Foix, as well as ongoing rebellions.
France in 1521:
This was the end of the first phase of La Tourmente, which was marked by foreign invasions. After that time, it became an essentially internal struggle between Normandy, Berry, and the various rebel factions in France, though Foix also remained at war with France until 1530. Nominally, the French crown was their opponent, but for most of the next sixty years, the van Vlaanderen rulers had little direct control of the territory they claimed and had little or no army to back them. This was true not only for Nicolas Henri (1515-1538), but for his successors, Charles VI (1538-1559), and Louis XIV. Occasionally, Berry or Normandy would succeed in drawing another nation into the fray, but rarely did they arrive in force.
It was a time of lawlessness, when the lands not occupied by opposing armies were ruled by local warlords. These rebellions did not remain confined to France but spilled over into the neighboring territories, and many countries that had seized French territory found it difficult to hold. In 1531, Bartholomeos Aubry captured Calais from the Sardinians, and declared the independent nation of Liege. A fervent protestant, Bartholomeos erected the new state as an Archbishopric.
Different rebel factions often fought amongst themselves in those turbulent years. Cosmopolitaine patriots regained control of Bourbon from the Archbishop of Hamburg and pledged their loyalty to Charles VI, the rightful King of France in 1550. Just seven years later, protestant zealots delivered the province into the hands of Berry, then moved on to the county of Bourges and captured it for Queen Jeanne of Berry as well. After Bohemia annexed its former vassal state of Orleans, rebels tore the lands apart, some of them declaring to France because of their loyalty to the French nation, and others to Berry, following their religious convictions, during the late 1560’s and early 1570’s.
Although most of France was occupied by its enemies for these years, the Van Vlaanderen monarchs stubbornly refused to surrender. It was only in 1583, when Louis XIV became protestant—at last following the faith of the majority of his supposed subjects—that Berry and Normandy finally agreed to peace. And even then, Louis XIV only agreed because his enemies withdrew from the lands they occupied. The Van Vlaanderens had earned a draw—they might well view it a victory--largely by barricading themselves in the Chateau de Vincennes for three generations until their enemies were exhausted.
But even after peace was made, it would be years before Louix had enough troops to fully restore order. Small wonder that he was unable to stop rebels in the Occitain-speaking provinces of LeMarche and Geavaudan from joining Berry in 1586. France was no longer the mighty kingdom that had dominated Western Europe for centuries. It was broken and divided, literally as well as metaphorically.
France in 1587:
The long years of war had left all the combatants impoverished and backward. There were no cities in France or Berry to rival London, Tortosa or Dietz, let alone the booming metropolis on the Lido. Merchants had avoided France for years, preferring to trade their wares in Navarra or the neutral town of Forez in Dauphine. In many of its neighbors, a wave of political reforms had consolidated royal power and created an effective civil service over the past 50 years, but France, Berry, and Normandy were still mired in the old feudal system. It seemed doubtful that France could ever regain its position in Europe, and Berry did not appear poised to take its place.
While almost every country in Europe suffered some upheaval during the Reformation, nowhere was the conflict more severe than in France, where the time known as ‘La Tourmente’ spanned almost the entire century. Less than five years after the beginning of Knyphausen’s revolution, the majority of Christian congregations over large areas of the country had broken free from Rome. This new ‘Protestant’ movement was particularly strong in the country’s eastern border regions, along the northern coast, in the southwest, and in the Alpine passes. Although King Louis XIII van Vlaanderen tried to encourage toleration, passing the Edict de Nantes in an effort to reduce tensions, this failed to prevent a religious revolt that had begun in neighboring Burgundy spilling over into Sens, where the rebels soon besieged the capitol.city of Nemours.
A religious map of France in 1503:
Angry that the King was not doing enough to suppress the rising revolt against the True Faith, Pope Clemens VIII excommunicated him. Even the subsequent passing of the conventicle act was insufficient to mollify the Pope. In normal circumstances, an excommunication placed a ruler in considerable difficulty but some, like the late Queen Ragnhild of Denmark had flouted the Pope’s authority for decades. But circumstances in France in the early 16th century were not normal, and the situation quickly spiraled out of control.
When they saw that France was struggling to keep order—and having been given a carte blanche by the Pope to make war as they saw fit—its neighbors began to circle like vultures, seeking some of its rich lands. Austria and Etruria attacked its provinces on the Po plain in the summer of 1506. By the spring of 1507, England and Sweden had launched invasions from the north and Burgundy was pressing its western borders. Each of these countries brought a few minor allies with them into the war.
The beleaguered French army could not defend against so many enemies at once, and soon Louis was forced to start exchanging land for peace. Queen Mary of England was bought off cheaply, but Queen Constance Billung of Austria not only demanded control of Brescia but insisted that the French release the northern coast as a new country called Normandy in 1508. The ink had barely dried on those treaties when France faced new opponents. In the fall, Bohemia and a gaggle of allies from eastern Europe including Danzig and Prussia, joined the fray.
By 1509, France’s weakness was so obvious that small states like the Papal States, Scotland, Finland and Sardinia began to attack. Still hoping to get out of this morass with his country more or less intact, King Louis ceded Dijon to Burgundy. But things grew steadily worse. Breton patriots rebelled in the northwest of France and eventually pledged themselves to Leinster, with which they shared historical and cultural ties. Valladolid broke free and the new self-styled Marques de Valladolid announced his loyalty to Castille. Genoa, Flanders and even tiny Galicia declared war on France.
In February of 1511, Pope Clemens finally lifted the King’s excommunication, but by then so much of France was under foreign control that peace could only be bought at steep prices. Sweden was given France’s last possessions in Iberia and most of its African lands as well. The rich province of Valenciennes was ceded to Bohemia and the Duke of Orleans was released from his dependence on France, and shortly afterward pledged to become a vassal of Bohemia. And in the west of the country, Protestant rebels had seized control of two provinces and proclaimed the independent Kingdom of Berry, Worse news for Louis: the newly anointed King Charles de Broye was determined to add all the Occitain-speaking lands of France to his kingdom.
France in 1512:
Though Louis was neither an able administrator nor a capable military leader, he was a good diplomat, and he used every ounce of negotiating skill he could to bring peace about as cheaply as possible. He was able to persuade many of the smaller nations, even those occupying significant territory, to leave with little or no compensation. But the country was being torn apart by rebellions. In 1513, the eastern provinces defected to the protestant Archbishop of Hamburg, and Louis fled Nemours to the city of Asti.
The Austrians attacked again later that year, and brought in a host of allies including Etruria, Toulouse and Normandy. This time there was no religious excuse for the invasion, merely naked greed. Within a year France had been forced to give up still more territory to Austria, Galicia and Normandy.
In1515, Louis died and was succeeded by his son Nicolas Henri, but there was no respite from the rebellions. Rheinlaender rebels drove Nicolas Henri from Asti and pledged their allegiance to Burgundy. The desperate King hid behind the high walls of the Chateau de Vincennes on the eastern outskirts of Paris, but the Ile de France, too, was largely under rebel control. Over the next few years much of the north came under the control of Flanders, and Calais was lost to Sardinia. With royal authority losing all meaning, rebels tore off pieces of the country and joined their neighbors in Aquileia, Berry, Navarra and Austria. The southwest of the country broke away forming the Kingdom of Foix in 1521. France had been much reduced in size, and still faced invaders from its former subjects in Normandy, Berry and Foix, as well as ongoing rebellions.
France in 1521:
This was the end of the first phase of La Tourmente, which was marked by foreign invasions. After that time, it became an essentially internal struggle between Normandy, Berry, and the various rebel factions in France, though Foix also remained at war with France until 1530. Nominally, the French crown was their opponent, but for most of the next sixty years, the van Vlaanderen rulers had little direct control of the territory they claimed and had little or no army to back them. This was true not only for Nicolas Henri (1515-1538), but for his successors, Charles VI (1538-1559), and Louis XIV. Occasionally, Berry or Normandy would succeed in drawing another nation into the fray, but rarely did they arrive in force.
It was a time of lawlessness, when the lands not occupied by opposing armies were ruled by local warlords. These rebellions did not remain confined to France but spilled over into the neighboring territories, and many countries that had seized French territory found it difficult to hold. In 1531, Bartholomeos Aubry captured Calais from the Sardinians, and declared the independent nation of Liege. A fervent protestant, Bartholomeos erected the new state as an Archbishopric.
Different rebel factions often fought amongst themselves in those turbulent years. Cosmopolitaine patriots regained control of Bourbon from the Archbishop of Hamburg and pledged their loyalty to Charles VI, the rightful King of France in 1550. Just seven years later, protestant zealots delivered the province into the hands of Berry, then moved on to the county of Bourges and captured it for Queen Jeanne of Berry as well. After Bohemia annexed its former vassal state of Orleans, rebels tore the lands apart, some of them declaring to France because of their loyalty to the French nation, and others to Berry, following their religious convictions, during the late 1560’s and early 1570’s.
Although most of France was occupied by its enemies for these years, the Van Vlaanderen monarchs stubbornly refused to surrender. It was only in 1583, when Louis XIV became protestant—at last following the faith of the majority of his supposed subjects—that Berry and Normandy finally agreed to peace. And even then, Louis XIV only agreed because his enemies withdrew from the lands they occupied. The Van Vlaanderens had earned a draw—they might well view it a victory--largely by barricading themselves in the Chateau de Vincennes for three generations until their enemies were exhausted.
But even after peace was made, it would be years before Louix had enough troops to fully restore order. Small wonder that he was unable to stop rebels in the Occitain-speaking provinces of LeMarche and Geavaudan from joining Berry in 1586. France was no longer the mighty kingdom that had dominated Western Europe for centuries. It was broken and divided, literally as well as metaphorically.
France in 1587:
The long years of war had left all the combatants impoverished and backward. There were no cities in France or Berry to rival London, Tortosa or Dietz, let alone the booming metropolis on the Lido. Merchants had avoided France for years, preferring to trade their wares in Navarra or the neutral town of Forez in Dauphine. In many of its neighbors, a wave of political reforms had consolidated royal power and created an effective civil service over the past 50 years, but France, Berry, and Normandy were still mired in the old feudal system. It seemed doubtful that France could ever regain its position in Europe, and Berry did not appear poised to take its place.