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Monnikje

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Jul 23, 2007
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A Paradox fan thoughts on Lionheart: kings' crusade

Last week I've been to the Paradox Interactive Convention 2010, being the lucky winner. During my stay in Stockholm, I reported back on not only my whereabouts, but also on the games I saw. I thus did a review on Lionheart: kings' crusade, from my perspective. Because not everyone would find their way to my AAR, I was asked to post it also here.​

The game I'll be talking about for today, has two words in its title that drives people from all around the globe crazy for phantoms that are not there: Lionheart: kings' crusade. But even though it's not the game you all been screaming for, I found it absolutely worthwile. It is indeed a game about the Third Crusade, the one where Richard Lionheart fought against Saladin. It's these two sides you can choose from: the European crusaders or the Arabic Saracenes. And to my pleasant surpise the two campaigns are really different. With completely different goals, campaigns and tactics, both sides will feel like two entirely different games inside the same game.

05lionscreen.jpg

Lionheart: kings' crusade looks a lot like the Total War games, but has more spirit.

The game looks like the Total War games, as you can see by this screenshot. The ingame demonstration they gave me, also gave me the feeling of a Total War battlefield. But in contrary to what I though at first, it's a completely different game. One of the most striking differences, is the attachment to the army you get. In the Total War games you train an army which you replace the moment it's half dead or obsolete. Here our army will grow. If you're playing for the crusaders, for example, you have to take into account that the army you command is made up from several different European states, and that they all have their different opinions, wishes and needs. As your game progresses, your choices to support one or the other faction will affect your army in a lot of different was. Do you listen to the French advise to charge in the morning, or to the Holy Roman Empire who wanted to sneak behind enemy lines in the middle of the night? You'll hurt the feeling of one of them by choosing, and this will affect the composition of your army in the future.

Not only your army, but also your commanders grow individually with all your actions. You shape characters, and get to learn the men you sent forward. It also helps that all the movements were captured with the motion capture technique. I have seen a movie of how they did it: they even got a real life horse to pose for them, and do all sorts of movements. A man on the back of the horse would for example charge, or shoot an arrow, or maintaining his position: all give you a realistic feeling. The movements feel like they are real.

05lionview.jpg

The game has much detail.

I also liked the detail displayed in this game. Not only does the landscape look real, with zoomed in trees that look like they come straight from Far Cry 2 or some game like that, also do the soldiers look like their from flesh and blood. You can zoom in and see for example Richard's facial expressions. It's not as blocky as I was used from for example Medieval 2.
 
But still is only limited to the two sides? :(

And how big can the battle be?

And how many thousands of soldiers are actually to be used in the Levant?
 
Hey Monnikje, thanks for the great preview :)
It's really fun that I actually know who hides behind your nick, thanks to Paradox Interactive, who made this happen :)

OK, so let's answer some questions :

There are two campaigns in the game, yes, but that doesn't actually mean two sides. I mean it's two sides you can control, sure, but there are neutral units in some battles as well, who are guarding some places for example and who will attack anybody passing nearby, be it your army or the enemy's.

In the battles you'll have up to thousand soldiers, plus (in the Christian campaign) in some battles a side army provided by the fractions - which in some cases you can control and in other cases not. Plus the enemy army (or sometimes armies) will be on the battlefield as well. Add this together, that's how big the battles will be :)

About the horns: some of the Templars actually wore such things that time. But there will be more additional Templar types as well who don't have horns :p:rofl:
 
If only it was more accurate, I would love to play it. But the horns in the Templars' helms just drive me away every time I look upon them...

Are you sure it not a picture of "Crusaders: Thy Kingdom Come" that you saw which an older game made by the same dev.


Also remember one thing, first few crusade was the time of the full helm, this helm is so cumbersome by itself that adding junk on it don't really degrade the cumbersomeness much. Through I admit I hope they don't go overboard with crest.
 
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Horns on helms or not, the game is pretty fun, acessible and with a large ammount of game elements for the player to juggle. I was thouroughly impressed when I had the opportunity to take a close look at it.
 
About the horns: some of the Templars actually wore such things that time. But there will be more additional Templar types as well who don't have horns :p:rofl:

No, they didn't, it's a myth. Neither did the Teutonic Knights, although they are represented on parade armor in some manuscript illuminations.

But the Templar knights never were horns. Anyway, that's it's not because of the horns, it's because of all the general visual design. Golden-brass armoured Saracens, crusaders wearing plate armours, ahistorical shoulder plates that don't even look right, made-up flags (why is there a Celtic cross in the Crusader's flag?).. I don't even want to imagine how will Richard the Lionheart look like. Instead of the fairly realistic version we have in Kingdom of Heaven, we might see a 2 meters long ogre in huge and pointy plate armor...

This game can be fun. As I said, it looks like the kind of game that I could enjoy if the design wasn't so fantasious. That's what kept me away from King Arthur, that's what will keep me away from this one.

You may think that cooler armours, huge swords in WoW style and fantasious design will make the game more attractive, but you're wrong: you can stick with visual historical accuracity and make the game even more attractive. Not because its educative potential, which is not a very interesting reason for selling purposes, but because players who seek a good game will play it being it fantasious or being it accurate (maybe realism will make it more attractive, who knows), and players like me, who seek a good game set in a good environment, will play it too.
 
No, they didn't, it's a myth. Neither did the Teutonic Knights, although they are represented on parade armor in some manuscript illuminations.

But the Templar knights never were horns. Anyway, that's it's not because of the horns, it's because of all the general visual design. Golden-brass armoured Saracens, crusaders wearing plate armours, ahistorical shoulder plates that don't even look right, made-up flags (why is there a Celtic cross in the Crusader's flag?).. I don't even want to imagine how will Richard the Lionheart look like. Instead of the fairly realistic version we have in Kingdom of Heaven, we might see a 2 meters long ogre in huge and pointy plate armor...

This game can be fun. As I said, it looks like the kind of game that I could enjoy if the design wasn't so fantasious. That's what kept me away from King Arthur, that's what will keep me away from this one.

You may think that cooler armours, huge swords in WoW style and fantasious design will make the game more attractive, but you're wrong: you can stick with visual historical accuracity and make the game even more attractive. Not because its educative potential, which is not a very interesting reason for selling purposes, but because players who seek a good game will play it being it fantasious or being it accurate (maybe realism will make it more attractive, who knows), and players like me, who seek a good game set in a good environment, will play it too.


So you are basing your decison on the simple outfit of the units? I think in a game there must be an artistic approach to its graphic elements with some leeway for creativity thrown in.

I don't see any problem in hornet helms as long as they don't hit my rear, to be honest. Or in golden brass armoured Saracens...
I can tell you the units feel hugely different from both sides and even within a single side with LOTS of costumization options.

From what Kate and Zoltan showed me, I think it is a great strategy game (emphasis on game instead of historical simulation), faithfull to a specific setting that gives a huge ammount of possibilities to the player. All this mixed with a healthy ammount of role playing.

...and I assure you King Lionheart avatar is not an Ogre.
 
So you are basing your decison on the simple outfit of the units? I think in a game there must be an artistic approach to its graphic elements with some leeway for creativity thrown in.

Yes, I am basing my decision on the outfit of the unit, because it's a way to see how many research has been put in it. And creativity is not a good thing when we're talking about History.

I don't see any problem in hornet helms as long as they don't hit my rear, to be honest. Or in golden brass armoured Saracens...
I can tell you the units feel hugely different from both sides and even within a single side with LOTS of costumization options.

From what Kate and Zoltan showed me, I think it is a great strategy game (emphasis on game instead of historical simulation), faithfull to a specific setting that gives a huge ammount of possibilities to the player. All this mixed with a healthy ammount of role playing.

...and I assure you King Lionheart avatar is not an Ogre.

I don't doubt this one can be a good game, and as I said before, it's probably the kind of game I'd like to play. But the visual aspect ruins the environment and the feeling I have.

I assume by this comment that you've seen Richard the Lionheart in game. Just answer me: is he wearing plate armour?

Exactly how accurate do you want it? I'm surprised you've managed to tolerate EU3, in that respect.

I'm talking of visual aspect, which is very important to me when talking of a strategy game based up on battles. EU3 has not that visual aspect, and its recreation of political simulation is the best I've ever seen. And it's more respectuous with historical accuracity than most of the existing games.

I'll say it again: in visual terms, no film has matched Kingdom of Heaven in lever of accuracity. Despite the fact that it seems that Jerusalem had only Templars, Hospitallers and the King's own men-at-arms to fight with, the aspect and the armors is very good.
 
Yes, I am basing my decision on the outfit of the unit, because it's a way to see how many research has been put in it. And creativity is not a good thing when we're talking about History.


Is it a good thing when we are talking about a game?




I assume by this comment that you've seen Richard the Lionheart in game. Just answer me: is he wearing plate armour?


Zoltan and Kate are both bigger than me. They would come and hunt me down across Lisbon streets for revealing that, so... sorry but even if I was presented to Lionheart himself, I'll refrain from telling you about his dressing tastes. I assure you he is no ogre, though.
 
Is it a good thing when we are talking about a game?

It is, if the game is presented as historical. If it's introduced as such and then I see that it's not, it looses realism and credibility.

Besides, I want to see realistic tactics, realistic fight... watching a knight who looks like an armadillo helding a 2 meters long sword with one hand... well, it becomes a fantasy game. Like that Warhammer game, Mark of Chaos, loosely based on history of the XVIth Century, but fantasy after all.

Zoltan and Kate are both bigger than me. They would come and hunt me down across Lisbon streets for revealing that, so... sorry but even if I was presented to Lionheart himself, I'll refrain from telling you about his dressing tastes. I assure you he is no ogre, though.

I don't want to put a Portuguese in troubles.
 
This is starting to look more interesting to me. I thought at first it would be a cheap TW knock-off, but it looks impressive. The graphics are very nice and Monnijke's comments about managing the different nationalities of the crusaders sounds like a very intriguing element.
 
This is starting to look more interesting to me. I thought at first it would be a cheap TW knock-off, but it looks impressive. The graphics are very nice and Monnijke's comments about managing the different nationalities of the crusaders sounds like a very intriguing element.

Strategic gameplay is very, very different from TW.
 
If the horned helms really disturb you that much, perhaps Paradox will put in options to disable them? I don't really have a big problem with the helms, and although I dislike the golden Arabs and the huge swords, I will still play it.
 
If the horned helms really disturb you that much, perhaps Paradox will put in options to disable them? I don't really have a big problem with the helms, and although I dislike the golden Arabs and the huge swords, I will still play it.

I already said that it's not the horns alone, it's the hole visual style. They're not gonna change it just because I dislike it. I just deplore that they have chosen to be intentionally unaccurate and WoW-style.
 
I already said that it's not the horns alone, it's the hole visual style. They're not gonna change it just because I dislike it. I just deplore that they have chosen to be intentionally unaccurate and WoW-style.

Umm, have you ever actually played WoW? These screenshots are NOTHING like it. At all. By any stretch of the wildest imagination.
 
Umm, have you ever actually played WoW? These screenshots are NOTHING like it. At all. By any stretch of the wildest imagination.

I was referring to those games that exagerate the size and appearance of everything, that always look what's cool. WoW is the finest example. This game is a follower of that doctrine.