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GOOD ENOUGH FOR SECONDS
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Oct 14, 2011
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  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
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A Quick Summary

The closest thing in Paradox's repertoire to a true modern political simulator at the moment is the Hearts of Iron franchise, which mainly concerns itself with war, and with East vs. West, espionage. Which is to say, sadly, that true politics is lacking.

My concept is this: a combination of the political mechanics of the Crusader Kings franchise with Hearts of Iron's combat system and modern setting. Comparable to Crusader Kings, the player would be in control of a political party at some point between the mid nineteenth century, after the advent of Marxism, and some point in the near future. The player's goal, in a nutshell, would be to solidify their ideology in the world, and maybe ultimately to reenact Nineteen eighty-four. However, the player would not be simply controlling the party, but the current leader of the party.

You are not the party, you are an individual.

Now I've caught your attention, into the nitty-gritty.

Characters and Character Interface

Characters, including the player, would be something slightly different to CK2, which is a whole other period in history. But they would act mostly the same

  • Political Spectrum: This is a new concept, and a key component of the system. If you're taking away anything, take away this. The Political Spectrum would indicate the political views of a character and enable/disable certain events. It would take the form of a number line where the now-redundant Titles and Claims once was. Now, the Political Spectrum number line would range from -9 to +9, with the political left, well, left with the negatives, and the political right at the right with the positives. The sum of certain traits would calculate a character's place on the political spectrum. From -1 to 1 would be Centrist. -3 to -1 would be Liberal, and 1 to 3 would be Conservative. -3 to -5 would be Socialist, 3 to 5 would be Reactionary. -5 to -7 Communist, 5 to 7 Fascist. -7 to -9 Anarchist, 7 to 9 Theocratic. Now, that's not a precise thing, and could be expanded. But it would be totally awesome to establish the Anarchists in the USA and dissolve the state, or to turn Ireland into a theocratic state and conduct the New Crusades. Traits and modifiers would contribute to the Political Spectrum. New traits like Egalitarian, Racist, Sexist, etc. would play a particular part.
  • Culture: CK2's 'Culture' should be split into Ethnicity and Nationality, leading to a better societal interplay. Nationality would contribute to all opinions of a character, but Ethnicity would only contribute in the case of characters with the racist trait. Different nationality would be an opinion malus, the same nationality would be a +0 opinion, but those with the Patriot trait would receive higher opinions of same nationality characters.
  • Stats: Stats, I imagine, would be slightly different. I'm slightly inclined to renaming them to something like Diplomatic Skill, Military Skill, Administration Skill, Espionage Skill and Research Skill. They would mostly act the same as in CK2, but, Espionage would contribute to the efficiency of the Intelligence Service and Research would expand Leadership points and increase research efficiency (more on that later).
  • Dynasties: Regarding dynasties... they're no longer applicable. As such, the family name should be part of the character's name, following the format of 'NAME, TITLE of PARTY / STATE.' E.g: Barack Obama, President of the United States, or Tony Abbot, Leader of the Liberal Party of Australia.

Now, that's an alright summary. Let's move on.

The Cabinet and Shadow-Cabinet

The Cabinet would be CK2's Council, just renamed and with slightly different tasks. It would be staffed with the:

  • Minister for Foreign Affairs, aka the Councillor.
  • Minister of Defense, aka the Marshal.
  • Minister of Finance, aka the Steward.
  • Intelligence Minister, aka the Spymaster.
  • Education Minister, aka the Chaplain. Hell, if you're a Theocracy, have the Chaplain back!

Even if you're not currently in power, you can establish a cabinet called a Shadow Cabinet. This shows the alternative to the current administration, and overall Party stats can contribute to voting. Speaking of voting, next we have;

Policy

The Party Policy tab contains the Party's policies, of course. Policies would be the Law tab of CK2, but it would be different. For one, it would be split into two: the political left and the political right. The political left would contain things like legalized gay marriage, legalized abortion, legalized drugs, secularization, welfare programs, corporate regulation, environmental programs, etc, while the political right would contain the opposites. You would not be restricted in what your policy is by your party or your character's ideology; indeed, choosing certain policies to appease the population would be a key gameplay component!

Now, here's the clever bit; as a leader of a party that is not in power, your policies would have no affect. BUT, they would be promises, and would convince the voting population to vote for you, based on what they agree on. When you are voted into power, the Senate votes on the legislation. Feel free to bribe Senators. Or just go back on the party promises. But nobody will like that.

Politics

Ah, that Politics tab I talked about earlier! Yes! Well, you see, in this tab you would see all the information you require, including:

a) The current parties in power in the states within your nation.
b) A pie graph like in Hearts of Iron, with the percentages of the population that support a certain ideology. These guys vote you into power. You can affect the population's political lean with propaganda and cabinet missions, but always remember you are subject to the whims of the populace until you turn authoritarian - which causes mass revolts!
c) Other political parties and their seats within the parliament/senate/whatever. (There will probably have to be different models, due to their being different democratic models like the Westminster system and such.
d) The head of state and his cabinet.

I haven't really fleshed this out, but yeah.

Production

Production and economy would function almost exactly like Hearts of Iron 3. I think it's a good system. However, it would of course be affected by policies and cabinet stats.

Military

HEARTS OF IRON. ALL THE WAY.

Technology

Now, I think Hearts of Iron has the right idea with Leadership points (which would also be affected by the Research stat!) and allocating them to espionage, diplomacy, research, etc. However, I think the tech trees should be more developed, along the lines of the Historical Plausibility Project.

Each technology tab should be divided into separate trees that you can pursue. For example, for economy, you would have Industrial versus Agricultural. For Land Theory, the usual Grand Battleplan vs. Armoured Spearhead vs. Combined Arms vs. Human Wave. Air Theory, Close Air Support vs. Air Superiority vs. Strategic Bombing vs. Air Cavalry. For Naval Theory, Merchant Raiding vs. Force Projection vs. Decisive Engagement, or something. Get the idea? It would be quite cool. You would get to prioritize a personal tech tree.

Espionage

Have you noticed a pattern here? Hearts of Iron (with some refinement)!

Internal Politics

Yeah, I just broke the pattern. Essentially, within your party, you would have Factions similar to CK2, in support of various policies or of opposing leaders. However, due to no Civil War function within the party and no military power, whether these factions will succeed in their agenda would be determined by the amount of party politicians supporting it. Once they have significant support, they can present an ultimatum in the diplomacy window.

Remember; your fellow party members are influential! They may decide to oust you and replace you with a rival (which actually wouldn't have much affect as you remain as the party leader no matter what, but you would get a heap of short-term relation maluses I guess), or even outright assassinate you. So, you would have to compromise and party policy, bribe politicians, promise various posts to various people...

In Conclusion

Now, as the night has deepened, I've become sleepier and lazier, deciding to simply copy features that Paradox has implemented before. But that was the goal, really - to combine CK2 with HOI3. So, I hope whoever's read this has got the gist, and if Paradox picks it up they can obviously develop it further. But this would be my personal favourite game, seriously - I could literally establish a massive totalitarian state a la 1984 and make the world a hellish abomination of war, industrial waste, radioactivity and whatever!
 
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I would like to paradox develop such a game but if you really are looking for this kind of game I would suggest you go on google and look for 'masters of the world', the graphics are not really top of the art but the political and everything in between is very deep. You can set taxes, full control over your industry and agriculture and you choose which sectors get privatized and nationalized.

I suggest you go check it out, and when paradox decides to make a game in this nature, I would buy it straight away!
 
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doesn't all these essentially describe the East Vs West game being developed?

well, granted, the actual political/ethnic/non-espionage/non-warfare components of EVW are too abstracted as you have indeed said anyway...
 
I asked this as well on the general forum.

But one person said paradox focus on grand strategy and the games like master of the world are simulation. Since I'm new to games, can someone explain what the big differences are? I mean CK is simulation to, no?
 
I asked this as well on the general forum.

But one person said paradox focus on grand strategy and the games like master of the world are simulation. Since I'm new to games, can someone explain what the big differences are? I mean CK is simulation to, no?
A grand strategy game is really a kind of simulation, but the implication is a lot of abstraction and an emphasis on the map you're trying to paint.
CK is a game where there are character simulation elements heavily integrated into the grand strategy simulation. It isn't by any means a "pure" grand strategy game.
 
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The issue with Masters of the World is that despite simulating really well how it is to lead a nation as PM/President and all the indepth options available, the AI is horrible, the economic system is not balanced, trade is arbitrary, and there are tons of bugs. For example, the AI doesn't seem to build any industry, schools, hospitals, AI nations don't make trades with other AI nations...they almost do nothing. They are a small team at eversim but I don't have faith in how they designed this game. For example, inflation is almost totally tied to growth rate. While growth rate does play a role, there is many more factors there.

I just believe in the intelligence of the paradox team to do this much better.

I would like to paradox develop such a game but if you really are looking for this kind of game I would suggest you go on google and look for 'masters of the world', the graphics are not really top of the art but the political and everything in between is very deep. You can set taxes, full control over your industry and agriculture and you choose which sectors get privatized and nationalized.

I suggest you go check it out, and when paradox decides to make a game in this nature, I would buy it straight away!
 
...
doesn't all these essentially describe the East Vs West game being developed?

well, granted, the actual political/ethnic/non-espionage/non-warfare components of EVW are too abstracted as you have indeed said anyway...

Exactly. Also, EvW only covers 1948-1991. I'm talking 1850-2225.
 
+1 this is really lacking in the game market. It would be awesome if PI could pull it off. They are the only compaany that could pull it off.


Maybe it should be a Political/economic game set between 1929-1939 (total economic collapse, bring you nation back from the brink!)
 
I think EvW will work fine in covering the modern day too. It's not like the cold war was destined to end in 1991; the Soviet Union could have been kept together through more swift and decisive reforms by Gorbachev. It's not detailing some far-off historical event, it was a very much modern conflict.
 
I think EvW will work fine in covering the modern day too. It's not like the cold war was destined to end in 1991; the Soviet Union could have been kept together through more swift and decisive reforms by Gorbachev. It's not detailing some far-off historical event, it was a very much modern conflict.

Last time I checked, EvW was 'a hearts of iron game.' That implies that we won't see any CK2-like mechanics, which is what I so badly want.
 
The issue with Masters of the World is that despite simulating really well how it is to lead a nation as PM/President and all the indepth options available, the AI is horrible, the economic system is not balanced, trade is arbitrary, and there are tons of bugs. For example, the AI doesn't seem to build any industry, schools, hospitals, AI nations don't make trades with other AI nations...they almost do nothing. They are a small team at eversim but I don't have faith in how they designed this game. For example, inflation is almost totally tied to growth rate. While growth rate does play a role, there is many more factors there.

I just believe in the intelligence of the paradox team to do this much better.

Yes, not to mention how fast you get kicked out of office for increasing the tax 0.5% too much.
 
I don't see how a modern-day game will benefit from Crusader Kings like character system. There are no royal marriages, no heir system for most of the nations, no assassinations. I think production and population system from Victoria would fit great to a modern-day game. Military system will be a simplified version(since war will only be a small part of the game) of HoI 3 but with more emphasis on logistics and morale of a nation. They also have to put new mechanics to simulate nukes( and using them to intimidate other countries) and UN.

The start date would be 25 December 1991.
 
I don't see how a modern-day game will benefit from Crusader Kings like character system.

That's a failure of imagination

The start date would be 25 December 1991.

No, it wouldn't be. I'm talking from mid 19th century to the near future, because I'm not talking about present day politics, I'm talking modern politics. You may think they are synonymous, but modern politics was born a long, long time ago. Also, plenty of assassinations in that timeframe, and not just by normal people. See Germany under the Weimar Republic, who had over 100 or some ridiculous number of politicians die in one year. And Peru.
 
I agree, we lack a good modern politics simulator, or one that takes it seriously. I'd only trust Paradox to make a great political sim, to be honest. With all the modern problems and scenarios. Would be great!