That doesn't really work anymore, because now Yugoslavia and Romania are guaranteed by France as well.
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Chapter 11, Waterloo Station, 18 March 1936
The debate over who would meet the German delegation had been, it seemed, an embarrassing Edwardian parlour game, a scramble to avoid having to deal with this not entirely welcome visitor (although the delegation was really calling on the League of Nations, which just happened to be meeting in London). In the end, with Eden and Vansittart both (deftly) scheduling other meetings (Eden with the league, Vansittart with the Admiralty), it fell to the Earl of Stanhope, Eden’s deputy, to meet them. Eden and Baldwin were both struck by the idea, thinking that the presence of an Earl would convey to the Germans a sense of ‘old world’ aristocracy. With many impressionable titled Britons flocking to see the new Germany, perhaps, Baldwin had calculated wilily, the game would work both ways…
Stanhope entered the station with a modest entourage; just one civil servant apiece from the Foreign Office and Cabinet Office was in attendance. Stanhope was determined to ‘give a good show’ with this German delegation. He wore a smart suit, his Grenadier Guards tie, with Order of the Garter tiepin. With bowler hat and umbrella, he looked like every foreigner’s image of an Englishman. That was just so. These were visitors to the capital, and they would be met as befitted gentlemen.
Stanhope’s thoughts were shattered by the arrival of the cheery German Ambassador, Leopold von Hoesch. With a flamboyant coat and highly drawn scarf the German looked very slightly theatrical. With the German part of the welcome set up, they waited.
Thankfully not for long, as a train chugged into the station and a nod from a railway employee signalled to Stanhope and von Hoesch that they should get into position.
“Mein Gott,” von Hoesch said quietly, and with evident relief, to Stanhope. “I feared that he’d arrive in uniform.”
Stanhope smiled uneasily at von Hoesch’s scorn for the German delegate. As Ribbentrop approached, he seemed to bring himself to attention (Stanhope hoped that he didn’t hear the German’s heels clicking, but suspected that he did), gave a very odd salute, and muttered some sort of invocation that Stanhope, who was still recoiling at the heel clicking, only hear the ‘Hitler’ part of. He wondered for a fleeting moment if he should mutter ‘Heil George’ back at him but instead strode, Guardsman precise, to the German and offered an outstretched hand.
“Herr von Ribbentrop,” he said in formal tones, “I am the Earl of Stanhope. On behalf of His Majesty’s Government, welcome to Britain.”
Ribbentrop offered a curt, rather arrogant nod, and practically ignored von Hoesch. As the German delegation was led away, the German Ambassador turned to the Briton and smiled.
“That went well, I think,” he said cheerfully, proving to Stanhope for once and for all that Germans do have a sense of humour.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Eden looked pensive as he listened both to Stanhope’s debrief and another Vansittart lecture on the need to stand up to the Germans.
“He’ll be here in a few minutes,” Eden reminded the other two snappily, “so let’s keep this focussed, can we?” He was apprehensive, which meant that the charm was strained and his tone tetchy.
Vansittart bristled but Stanhope, who had spent his life dealing with mercurial Commanding Officers and ministerial seniors, took it in his stride and offered a sympathetic smile.
“Do we know if von Hoesch is with him?” That was an important question and one that Stanhope had dully imagined would have been agreed. If von Ribbentrop brought von Hoesch, then the ‘rules of the game’ would suggest that Eden be accompanied (probably by Vansittart). There was an air of uncertainty now.
“From what Lord Stanhope has said of their interaction at Waterloo I’d imagine not,” Vansittart said coolly. Stanhope was impressed with his handling of Eden, a handling that he had never really mastered.
Eden gave a distracted nod of agreement. “The Locarno Suite?”
“Yes,” Vansittart said, with a wry smile of welcoming the German emissary in a suite of rooms named after the signing of a treaty that fixed borders. “It’ll awe him”.
“Have the Naval types cleared out?” It was typical of Eden to fret about domestics; the deconfliction with the Naval limitations agreements was not his concern; Vansittart had a whole protocol team to deal with moving different groups of delegations around the building.
“Lord Monsell is hosting a supper,” Vansittart replied in a strained voice, “it is arranged.”
“Well then,” Eden said, petulantly, sarcastically. “Let’s go.”
It certainly was arranged, and the Conference Room of the Locarno Suite looked ludicrously oversized for a meeting between two men. But Eden’s strategy was to show off British grandeur and superiority. He was dressed impeccably (even Stanhope, who was sartorially alert, had been impressed) and was perched at the head of one of the wings of the table.
Vansittart, bristling at being relegated to a sort of under-butler, opened the door and announced with due ceremony. “The Head of the Delegation from the German Reich, Foreign Secretary.”
“Ah yes, my dear Joachim,” he said with a very English blend of patronising charm. “Do take a seat. Have we offered you tea? Thank you,” he said to Vansittart.
Von Ribbentrop looked bemused by this weirdly unwelcoming welcome. “Shall I begin,” he said with force.
“Please,” Eden said, tucking a stray hair behind his ear.
“For Germany to now withdraw our troops from the Rhineland would be a humiliation. It would be something that no other country in the world is expected to do within its own territory. Your own Secretary of State for War has said that you don’t give” he frowned, “ah ja, er, ‘two hoots’” he said the words slowly, not familiar with the English phrase “about us moving troops in our own territory. Your own Mr Bernard Shaw has said that it is no different to you putting troops in Portsmouth. Did we misinterpret you?”
Eden squirmed with embarrassment and offered a bashful smile. “Herr von Ribbentrop,” he said, steeling himself to make his first contribution to the discussion. “I do see that withdrawing from the Rhineland, now, would cause difficulties for your Government.”
“You have seen the will of the German people,” von Ribbentrop said this with a messianic intensity, in a an oddly shouted whisper.
“Ah yes, I have,” Eden said, swatting away imaginary dust from his trouser leg. “But I must say,” Eden said, realising that it was time to get on with it, “that no one wants a conflagration, a war, because of an action that so many have sympathy, ah, with.” He was angry with himself for being so unsettled. He steeled himself to be more assertive. “We must be careful,” he said in a very peremptory way, “to be, ah, that is, prepared”, (said ‘preeepahrred’), for all nations to agree in discourse a way ahead.”
Ribbentrop nodded.
“And that must include Germany”. Eden said this sentence very quickly, although Germany was, in his drawly voice, ‘Jarrrrmeny’.
“Our action does not consist merely in the restoration of German sovereignty in the Rhineland zone, but is bound up also with comprehensive concrete proposals to give a new assurance of peace in Europe,” Ribbentrop said, sounding (accurately, for Eden was sure this was the text of the communique to the League) like he was reciting lines; Eden realised that they were having slightly different conversations. He was trying to warn Germany that she would get a frosty reception at the League tomorrow, while Ribbentrop was interested only in bludgeoning (metaphorically, Eden hoped) the Englishman in acquiescence. Eden, who was rising to the challenge, suddenly felt exhausted as he realised that this was a pointless meeting.
“A ha, well that is useful, thank you Herr Ribbentrop.”
“Also,” (Eden liked the German way pronouncing it as ‘allzo’), “Germany has done all that it can to reduce” Ribbentrop frowned, then smiled as the word came, “tension. We will not increase the present tension and the Fuhrer has indicated that we will not increase the strength of our troops in the Rhineland. We will not move troops to the French and Belgian borders.”
Eden smiled thinly at that, waiting patiently for the German to continue his monologue. But Ribbentrop was waiting for him to comment. A frown briefly clouded Eden’s bright face, and then he offered the bashful smile again.
“I see,” he said stalling. “So your mission tomorrow will be to postpone the vote?” ‘The vote’ was a Franco-Belgian proposal to the Council of the League of Nations to find Germany in breach of international treaty.
Ribbentrop, seemingly, and despite Eden and Phipps’ actions in denouncing the Rhineland move, wanted to include the British into his confidence. “Yes,” he said sternly, “we would wish to address the Council, to establish that this League action does not consider the French agreement with the Soviet Union.”
“Al-right,” Eden said uncertainly, “I can support a German address to the Council, it makes sense to us,” Eden continued, feeling that he was giving something away, “was that all?”
Ribbentrop leaned forward. “Litvinov wants to place economic sanctions on the Reich.”
Eden stared at the German; he knew of the Russian proposals, and also knew that Vansittart was sceptical that they could get international agreement; their assessment was that the key countries would reject the Russian application. Eden wondered if British ‘credit’ after the imposition of sanctions against Italy was low with her international partners.
“It is a consideration,” Eden said equably. “And not without precedent.”
Ribbentrop, whose staff had probably reached a similar conclusion to the Foreign Office, looked alarmed and Eden rejoiced that he had finally unsettled the German. “But, without Italy, Sweden, Denmark, the Dutch, they would be meaningless. This is madness!”
“Then, my dear, Joachim, I suggest that you make that point tomorrow, and we see what the international community decides. I, certainly, will be listening keenly to see where British power will fall.”
It was a hopeless challenge; the Cabinet would not endorse sanctions and the idea was doomed. Eden’s instructions from the Cabinet were to manage the situation diplomatically, and not enflame tensions. But to disrupt the Germans a bit, well, that was also part of British diplomatic aspirations. Feeling better, he rose, signalling the end of the meeting.
“Until tomorrow, then,” he said grandly.
“Er, ja,” Ribbentrop said finally.
As the German stalked from the room, Vansittart stood quietly at the door.
“Well?”
Eden shook his head. “No surprises,” he said curtly to his senior civil servant. “Which means that the Council will hear him, there’ll be no sanctions, and nothing will be done, and Germany has grown stronger while the concert of nations has diminished.”
Vansittart looked as if he was going to speak, but Eden saw him and shook his head again.
“I know your views,” Eden said tartly. “That’ll be all.”
Vansittart wordlessly strode from the room, Eden was left alone, with his thoughts.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
GAME NOTES
Ah Eden; as I have suggested previously, I am fascinated by him. At the heart of this incident is, of course, the call on the leader of the German delegation to the Council of the League of Nations, von Ribbentrop, on the British Foreign Secretary. As is often happening in this first part of the AAR (the broadly, bar some minor PODs, historical bit before it all goes a bit mad) the meeting between Eden and Ribbentrop happened, and largely (in terms of matters discussed) as I have portrayed. We know this as Ribbentrop wrote a reasonably detailed account of it back to Germany. Eden, he was clear, didn’t really say much, beyond restating British principles (and accepting some of Germany’s) and seeing that for Germany to back down (i.e. to pull out of the Rhineland) would be a humiliation too great.
There is, of course, a controversy. Andrew Roberts’ biography of Halifax strongly suggests that he attended the meeting, yet both Eden and Ribbentrop don’t mention this. I understand Baldwin’s aim for the League of Nations diplomacy before this meeting (as discussed in the last chapter) – give Eden more firepower at the League and keep in under control with a trusted confidante reporting home, hence Halifax going out with him, but I do not believe that Ribbentrop would have been silent at besting yet another British politician. The Germans in 1936 were horrifically misguided on British politics, believing that the landed aristocracy still ran the country through a clique of powerful peers. There is some truth in the power of the Establishment, but the Nazis never really understood the difference between economic ownership, cultural clout, and political power. It would dog their efforts with the British throughout the 30s. So, in sum, if Halifax had attended, we would have known about it.
While the course of the discussion is well minuted, the temperament and how things were said isn’t. As ever do, please, give me your thoughts, but I doubt that I have strayed too far from reality. Eden was a complex man; very highly strung, capable of great charm, but often very, very, coquettish. For a modern parallel I would offer Zac Goldsmith, or maybe (in the bashful yet charismatic nature) Diana, Princess of Wales. All of them seemed / seem shy in the public gaze, yet all sought some form of public career. Intriguing. I think that Eden didn’t perform particularly well on the evening of 18 March 1936; he certainly seemed quiet to Ribbentrop and I have surmised that he finds Ribbentrop’s bluster a tad disconcerting. But he could be clear-sighted, and I wanted to give him balance, even at a minor level, amidst so much British weakness. The problem for Eden, of course, is that the British hand is actually very weak. France and Belgium were leading the diplomatic fight, the Foreign Office and Cabinet (as we have seen) were united in wanting to do nothing beyond diplomatic measures, and the Dominions (deliberately absent from this update) far from supportive of Britain taking firm action. The bit about sanctions is true – there was limited support from League members for harming themselves to harm Germany as well (the German economy was much more of a global one than Italy).
I began the update by introducing Stanhope and von Hoesch (though the German Ambassador has been mentioned before). They are both fun characters – Stanhope has the aristocratic pedigree that the Germans would find impressive (although they did see through the idiots) and in the absence of levity elsewhere I have opted to make him a bit 'blimpish', and von Hoesch appears to have been an ebullient and reasonably popular ambassador. He strongly reminds me of a German chum - hilarious fun.
And so ends the Rhineland arc. Thank you for bearing with me, and now onto the next crisis…
The @Le Jones and @El Pip exchange is surely the modern version of the legendary John Adams exchange with Thomas Jefferson. Let’s not take it too far – I don’t want to die on the same day…
@Bullfilter : Thank you, it seemed a good way of drawing the game into both my world and the real 1936. You’re right of course, and this is only relevant material while I am vaguely close to reality (or so it would seem…)
@stnylan : That’s a great idea – can you remind me if I forget, I would love to write that up…
@TheButterflyComposer : You’re right, of course, Germany is a powerhouse very early on.
@Captured Joe : The starting positions are odd, just odd. Vaguely true to life in some areas, utterly mad in others.
@DensleyBlair : Thanks – I would say that half of my games have imploded into chaos, tears and tragedy. Some have been superb, including the game on which this AAR is written.
@TheButterflyComposer : I’ve great fun as random other nations – a game as Turkey was utterly demented as was a game as Sweden. I do wonder if Paradox took the “you can go any way” ethos waaaaay too far…
@DensleyBlair : (shame faced) I’ve yet to play Italy for more than a few minutes.
@TheButterflyComposer : That sounds like a fun AAR to be written…
@Captured Joe : I didn’t know that.
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Von Ribbentrop is quite the nazi stereotype, isn't he?
It's part of the latest big update, and has caused great unease with Italy and Austria-Hungary players who previously would start their world-conquering schemes by beating up Yugoslavia.
Reading this, I do wonder whether a little further down the line we will get the famous “Heil Boothby!”
A terrifically frosty meeting – or so it could perhaps be construed. Ribbentrop remains very much his own man (or maybe that’s inaccurate, and he is in fact entirely his führer’s man) and Eden gave a good performance as his suave, neurotic self. In an entirely different field, I’ve sat through some similarly frustrated meetings, where no one can quite agree on what, exactly, is the subject of discussion, and this did a great job of capturing the discomfort. Wonderful stuff as ever.
Well, there's definitely going to be a war then. Mores the shame of it.
I dislike what they are doing in the Balkans if this French garuntee is true. Sure they had connections there but if Hungary or Italy can't quickly and somewhat easily taken Yugoslavia, they can't really do much until 1939. Taking Austria, then declaring on the Czechs to get Yugoslavia too ,was to a fun and tricky little war where Italy has to hold off one country across a river whilst pummelling the other to death. Then you have enough puff to plan what you want to do the rest of the game. Taking that away makes Italy's a much less useful tool as a tutorial nation. And less fun overall.
I dislike what they are doing in the Balkans if this French garuntee is true. Sure they had connections there but if Hungary or Italy can't quickly and somewhat easily taken Yugoslavia, they can't really do much until 1939. Taking Austria, then declaring on the Czechs to get Yugoslavia too ,was to a fun and tricky little war where Italy has to hold off one country across a river whilst pummelling the other to death. Then you have enough puff to plan what you want to do the rest of the game. Taking that away makes Italy's a much less useful tool as a tutorial nation. And less fun overall.
A man very dependent on the Führer's whims and patronage certainly, more so than much of the rest of the inner circle who were a little more secure in their positions. He had his own views, the German switch of allegiance from China to Japan has to be in part due to his efforts, but I agree on subjects where the Führer had firms views (such as this trip to Britain) he would never be more than a faithful parrot.
An interesting update as always @Le Jones . I understand Ribbentrop was fairly easy to discombobulate if you varied from what he expected, so I think that part was bang on and I remain in agreement with your approach to Eden.
I await Eddie's blundering re-appearance in the narrative (if that is the next crisis) with anticipation and a mild sense of dread.
Important to remember that although Eden has been in the Foreign Office for some time at this point, he has only been Foreign Secretary for a few months. Easy to forget that detail, I think. Indeed, I just looked it up - three months roughly at this point. Not much time at all. And he was dropped into the thick of things right away, what with Abyssinia, and then the Rhineland. I can think of quite a few Foreign Secretaries who had an easier first year.
I did like the portrayal of how the two sides were more talking at each other, rather than to each other. You mention Germany misunderstanding British social politics - of course the same was true in the pre-WW1 years too. And not just the Germans. The British "class system" of the late Victorian to WW2 era is not especially easy to understand, even by British people today. In particular I think people do not understand the two-way nature of it. And - for an aristocracy - how "easy" it was to get into the British aristocracy over the course of a generation or three. Just a far more fluid dynamic than some (not all) continental aristocracy - which may be one reason why our aristocracy still survives.
But it is really hard to understand from the outside, when all you have to understand is propaganda (ie, the American view) or a more rigid system (the German view).
I did like the portrayal of how the two sides were more talking at each other, rather than to each other. You mention Germany misunderstanding British social politics - of course the same was true in the pre-WW1 years too. And not just the Germans. The British "class system" of the late Victorian to WW2 era is not especially easy to understand, even by British people today. In particular I think people do not understand the two-way nature of it. And - for an aristocracy - how "easy" it was to get into the British aristocracy over the course of a generation or three. Just a far more fluid dynamic than some (not all) continental aristocracy - which may be one reason why our aristocracy still survives.
But it is really hard to understand from the outside, when all you have to understand is propaganda (ie, the American view) or a more rigid system (the German view).
If I remember myself I will do so!
It certainly is true that the UK has a larger mix of really quite astonishingly old noble families and fairly new ones (by which in this context means were minor nobles at best at the begining of the 19th century and by its end were the most important duchies etc), split up by several families who managed to survive the Restoration and Glorious Revolution and still stay relevant and rich.
Probably the biggest cycle in the English aristocracy is the boom and bust of most families, with at any one time having both lots of impoverished nobles and some of the richest people in the world all in the same social circle. It'll be interesting to see how the whole system evolves as every other countries aristocracy is now either completely dead or in its deathrows, with some exceptions.
Probably the biggest cycle in the English aristocracy is the boom and bust of most families, with at any one time having both lots of impoverished nobles and some of the richest people in the world all in the same social circle. It'll be interesting to see how the whole system evolves as every other countries aristocracy is now either completely dead or in its deathrows, with some exceptions.
Two great updates to catch up on (you might have guessed my notifications have been messing me around).
I particularly liked the cabinet update and I too remember the excellent Japanese AAR you referenced back when I merely browsed the forum rather than commenting.
I would perhaps have liked to hear a bit more from Ramsey MacDonald but I expect I am a lone voice in that respect.
I particularly liked the cabinet update and I too remember the excellent Japanese AAR you referenced back when I merely browsed the forum rather than commenting.
I would perhaps have liked to hear a bit more from Ramsey MacDonald but I expect I am a lone voice in that respect.
I would perhaps have liked to hear a bit more from Ramsey MacDonald but I expect I am a lone voice in that respect.
Sitting quietly and occasionally being patronised by cabinet colleagues is his just desserts for selling out the labour movement and jumping ship to the Tory government.
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Somehow the words "tactical victory, strategic defeat" leap out to me while reading this update. Eden may have avoided giving away British weakness in this encounter, but in the broader sense he has only delayed the inevitable since Ribbentrop, spooked as he was, isn't going to back down from his main message.
That said, despite the outcome of the meeting, that one scene of Eden catching Ribbentrop off-guard after seemingly being on the back foot himself for so much of the discussion was worth it -- I don't doubt that Ribbentrop will be spending the rest of the evening wondering if Eden did it deliberately to catch him off guard
That said, despite the outcome of the meeting, that one scene of Eden catching Ribbentrop off-guard after seemingly being on the back foot himself for so much of the discussion was worth it -- I don't doubt that Ribbentrop will be spending the rest of the evening wondering if Eden did it deliberately to catch him off guard
Chapter 12, Admiralty, 25 March 1936
It was still light, and it was beautiful. The sun was low and bright, almost a summer’s sun for this early Spring day, casting long shadows across the rooms, the parade outside, and across one man’s cluttered desk. The man wore his smartest suit, although he felt more comfortable with his jacket and collar off, working with his charts and plans. Next to him, a champagne flute, freshly liberated from the reception below, bubbled away happily.
The man was Sir Arthur Johns, the Director of Naval Construction, known ubiquitously as ‘DNC’. He was a measured man, and gazed out of the window in quiet contemplation. Below him, in the Admiralty Board Room, the delegates were celebrating the signing of a treaty that had a direct impact upon DNC’s work; it was rare, Johns thought ruefully, for international treaties to specify, very precisely, how senior civil servants did their jobs, but this one, like its predecessors, quite clearly did. Johns had enjoyed the exchange of information that had resulted from the London Treaty deliberations; the French and the Americans (particularly, he thought to himself, the Americans) had similar problems to the British; he had especially enjoyed, in the ‘off duty’ moments, understanding the American approach to their North Carolina class; a ship with similar aims (and, he realised, constraints) to the gift that he hoped to bestow upon the Royal Navy. The British version of the North Carolinas, as much as it could be compared, lay before him on his desk.
These ships had suffered a complicated genesis, and as Johns’ latest creation the project wasn’t safe yet. Only a month ago the design had been four hundred and fifty tons over the limits, and Johns and his team had despaired of delivering the dozen fourteen-inch guns demanded by the Admiralty. It was demoralising for the team, who like the Americans were designing a ship in accordance with a treaty that might be ignored. And if it was, as everyone believed, ignored, by Italy or Japan, then the infamous (and now ratified in international law) ‘escalator clause’ would be enacted. And the view from elsewhere in the building, to Johns' quiet fury, seemed to be that if that meant that Britain was committing to fourteen inchers while someone else was building sixteen or (heaven forbid) bigger? Well, ‘too bad’. Johns closed his eyes, and turned to the busy, but clean calm of the plans. The latest torment from the Admiralty Board, following the tonnage debacle, had been their desire to increase the armour and anti-torpedo protection. This would, Johns had conceded, improve the immunity zone against 16-inch fire. But two guns had to be dropped from the main armament and the freeboard reduced. Dropping two guns had meant that the simplicity of three quad mountings had now become two quad mountings and one double mounting.
Sitting back, the DNC was amazed that he had got the project even this far. He sat back, greedily (and completely uncharacteristically) grabbed the champagne flute, and silently toasted these new battleships.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Not far away, in another room at the Admiralty, Viscount Monsell, First Lord of the Admiralty, looked up from his writing; he too had not long escaped the reception and was jotting a quick note to the Admiral commanding the Home Fleet with a long promised report on the proceedings. Monsell was a former Naval officer and had an unquenchable, if perhaps overregulated, enthusiasm for this job that he loved, providing political leadership to the greatest Navy, in his view the greatest fighting force, that the world had ever seen. He was not a bigoted man, nor a rabid nationalist, but the fighting traditions of the Royal Navy, coupled with an ambitious programme to provide superb warships, must, he argued, be preserved. Rarely among politicians, he felt a sense of wardship, of being a custodian, of the centuries of history until it was time to pass on that privilege. The Naval officers and civil servants working in the Admiralty were aware of this, and were loyal to him because of it despite a slightly introverted nature and an irritating peevishness.
He responded to a knock at the door of his office. “Yes, Mogridge, is it the delegates?”
“No no, First Lord, but the Foreign Secretary is here.”
Monsell, who had been engrossed in rereading the treaty provisions, smiled to his aide. “Show him in, and is the First Sea Lord back yet?”
“Yes M’Lord.”
“Show him up, as well. And Mogridge?”
“Sir?”
“We are doing the right thing, aren’t we?”
Mogridge looked down, thoughtfully, at his shoes. “I think so, Sir.”
There was a short pause before Eden was escorted in, closely followed by the First Sea Lord, Admiral of the Fleet Sir Ernle Chatfield, stiffly formal in full uniform. There was a polite knock at the door and Mogridge entered, bearing a bottle and three glasses that he had ‘liberated’ from the reception. It was almost completely dark now; Mogridge had considered cheekily bringing a fourth glass for himself, knowing that Monsell just wouldn’t think of asking him to join them (he also knew that Monsell was so reserved that he wouldn’t argue the point), but decided that Chatfield’s disdainful nature would ruin the conviviality anyway.
“Admiral, Anthony,” Monsell said when they had all grabbed a glass of champagne, “to the treaty”. They raised their glasses in salute to the agreement. “Thank you, both of you, for your work on this agreement,” he said softly, before reflectively asking them, “have we done the right thing?”
Eden stroked his moustache, “you know, Bolton, my thoughts. Baldwin told us to avoid an arms race and we have done that. We have done well with the limitations and guns.”
Chatfield raised an eyebrow, Monsell offered a weak smile before replying to Eden. “Some quarters are furious with us for insisting on fourteen-inch guns, they think that we are underestimating the threat. But,” he said, doubt in his voice, “at least we’ve kept the cost of the Admiral’s new battleships down,” he said.
“I will never understand,” Chatfield said, rather grandly, “how a sleight of hand that makes the Americans and French think us idealistic rather than parsimonious can be a good thing.”
Monsell looked as if he was going to reply, but stopped himself; Eden responded instead. “And that, if I may, ah, First Sea Lord, is why you are a first-rate Admiral but a naïve politician. It is better that Article Four looks inspired by principle rather than weakness.” Eden smiled shyly, conscious that his lesson in politics appeared patronising to this seasoned veteran of Jutland.
Monsell unfurled a series of papers, and beckoned Eden and Chatfield to look at them. Holding the corners with the bottle and the glasses, they looked down at the naval plans.
“Hot off the press, or DNC’s office anyway. The new battleships”, Monsell said, a childish enthusiasm in his voice. “Part of the new programme, to be laid in the next five years. This is why this agreement is so important. She is designed to get the maximum effect while complying with the provisions.”
“Can your chaps keep her within the tonnage limits,” Eden asked gently, recalling an earlier mention from Cabinet. He was tired, and the Rhineland saga had deprived him of the capacity that he had been using to support the Naval discussions.
Monsell nodded, blankly. “The architects tell me that they can. She is an acceptable blend of firepower, armour and speed.”
“If,” Chatfield said wryly, “everyone complies with the agreements. If they don’t,” he said with a sour look at Eden, “then Article Four will bite us in more ways than one.”
“The reversion clause?”
“Of course,” Chatfield said elegantly, almost suavely, enjoying the reversal of fortunes. “If one of the parties doesn’t ratify, the other powers can go back to frankly God knows what. But we’ve sank money, and all of that industrial preparation into this existing design.” He tapped the plans on Monsell’s desk. “Another power setting the treaty aside could go for bigger. Which leaves us with Nelson, Rodney, and, well, First Lord, whatever we can salvage from these”. He tapped the charts again to reinforce his rather brutal commentary.
Eden looked, intrigued, to Monsell. “Can they be retrofitted, to take bigger guns?”
Chatfield and Monsell both shook their heads. “Not without major refits,” Monsell said sadly. “The turrets, the weapons hoists, the magazines…”
“Virtually a rebuild,” Chatfield said in his drawl. He looked at Monsell, “of course, there is also the factor of the dockyards.”
“The dockyards?”
Monsell nodded. “None of our Royal dockyards, at least at home, can take anything over forty thousand tons. Perhaps, with minor investment, forty-three thousand tons.”
Chatfield, next to him, nodded. “That’s what DNC has said. So all rests on the agreement.”
Eden looked, horrified, at the First Lord. “That’s quite the gamble, Bolton!”
Monsell looked sadly at Eden. “What else could we do, Anthony. Baldwin doesn’t have the inclination to help, but anyway we cannot get money for the Navy without the Cabinet, and Chamberlain resists all but measured expenditure. So, we rely on international agreements to limit the world to that which we can afford. All the while…”
“We can grandstand as the proponents of peace and promote restraint of arms,” Eden said, the simplicity of the British position and the victory obtained through guile and manoeuvring not sitting entirely comfortably.
Monsell had his hands in his pockets, in a staged show of insouciance. The fact that he kept pulling them out, moving them around as if wondering what to do with them before returning them to his pockets destroyed this display of indifference. “I just worry,” he said softly, Eden smirking as the thought that Monsell had said all that he needed to with those three words, before waiting for more, “that we will end up like the French”
“I don’t follow, First Lord,” Chatfield said primly, showing a hint of distaste at the thought of being compared to the French.
Monsell sighed. “They fought hopelessly for as much as they could get at Washington and couldn’t even reach those low limits. We have to keep our primacy.”
Chatfield nodded, relieved that he had a minister who wanted to defend the Royal Navy’s position. “Yes, First Lord,” he drawled.
Eden also nodded, “I will do what I can to make the Foreign Office need for strong maritime forces clear.”
Monsell looked peevishly at Eden. “You would do that, truly?”
Eden was irritated that Monsell had questioned him but, typically, was graceful enough not to show it. “Of course. Neville has agreed to continue with the rearmament.”
“Is it Chamberlain’s decision, frankly?” That was Chatfield, keen to contribute and unable to resist adding some gossip. “All the talk is of some new minister.”
Eden rolled his eyes. “The Prime Minister,” he said, petulantly, “has yet to decide on that. Ah!” This last comment was to two new arrivals, Sir Robert Craigie, a Foreign Office diplomat, and Captain Tom Phillips, Director of Plans at the Admiralty.
“Well that’s everyone heading out,” Phillips said in a no-nonsense way. Next to him Craigie offered an almost shy (almost Edenesque) smile.
“Sir Robert?” That was Eden, detecting the other man’s hesitancy.
“I wonder, Foreign Secretary, if this is not the time to consider talks with those nations not involved in these talks.”
“What do you mean,” that was Monsell. “Do you want to reengage with the nations that have pulled out of this agreement, or include lesser naval powers.”
Next to Craigie, Eden was irritated to see Phillips silently mouth ‘the Russians’. He was pleased to sense Monsell tighten in anger but Eden couldn’t let it drop. “You have a point, Captain?”
Phillips shook his head and avoided Eden’s gaze. Craigie was not perturbed or dissuaded. “He thinks, Foreign Secretary, that I am too worried about the Russians. But Stalin has the intent to increase their strength. An early engagement, perhaps agreed tonnages, could work.”
Eden, for whom dealing with the Soviet Union was not a priority, pulled a sour face, but Monsell looked thoughtful. “Any others?”
“The second-rate powers. The Norther Europeans, the Dutch.”
Eden smiled, “perhaps, Sir Robert, you could look at it for us, and report back?”
Craigie, suitably empowered, nodded. Mogridge returned and with a single nod signalled that the that the delegate had actually gone. All sighed with relief.
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GAME NOTES
This was a hard update to write as I have crammed it with game stuff, but not much really happens. Easy stuff first, the UK completes its research into Depth Charge throwers, despite them being a (largely) WW1 tech. I have obfuscated by using it to symbolise Chamberlain’s continued funding for the RN’s (already quite mature) destroyer programme. So, at anti-submarine warfare, the RN continues to invest. Done. This was also completed around the same (ish) time as the London Treaty event (rarely, for HOI4, an event taking place around the right time!) and my beginning to research the 1936 capital hull. I deliberately waited until I have spent my Political Power on making Camell Laird the favoured in-game Naval designer to favour an Atlantic approach.
The London Treaty is the child / grandchild of the more famous (infamous?) Washington Treaty. By 1936 the maritime balance via a treaty policy was very mature, and the British, Americans, French, Germans (through the 1935 pact with the British) and, to an increasingly fraying extent, the Italians and Japanese were fully involved. The 1936 London Treaty was prevented from further limiting how many ships a nation could build by Japan’s absence, but did limit the maximum size of the signatories' ships, and the maximum calibre of the guns which they could carry. Capital ships were restricted to 35,000 tons and, as we have seen, a calibre of 14-inch (356 mm) guns. Here comes, however, the ‘sting’. The infamous ‘escalator clause’ (which HOI4 does replicate) was put in at largely American urging in case the signatories to the earlier agreements (Japan, kid, I’m looking at you) refused to adhere to this new limit. This provision allowed the signatory countries of this new agreement (Britain, USA, France) to raise the limit from 14-inch guns to 16-inch if Japan or Italy still refused to sign after 1 April 1937. Spoiler alert, they weren't keen. Further provisions were that submarines were limited to 2,000 tons, light cruisers were restricted to 8,000 tons, and aircraft carriers were restricted to 23,000 tons. There were, also, limits to the calibre of armaments that these ships could sport.
And now to the personalities involved. I have tried to give a rare spotlight on Monsell, a man largely forgotten by history (in light of the chaos to come) but whom I find myself liking. The personality fell from the attached (NPG) photo, he just looks like a worrier. Everything that I have read (and there isn’t, actually, that much) suggests that he was a conscientious, if uninspiring type and I have tried to fit that into this narrative. Of course, historically he was moved on not long after the events of this chapter, but I think that he deserves some credit for the Treaty (for getting the thing signed, anyway) and for getting the KGVs to the build stage. Eden, of course, we have already met, but this chapter highlights @stnylan 's point that he had a very unwieldy portfolio in early ’36 – he’s everywhere! Mogridge is fictional, but Chatfield and Johns are of course real. Little is known about this ‘DNC’, so I have been lazy and invested into him stereotypical engineer traits (I think!). I actually think he was quite good at his job, and gave the RN a range of platforms for the looming conflict, although some serious inbuilt issues would be manifested as the ships were built and used. In reality the KGVs were his last project, and he handed over to Sir Stanley Goodall shortly after the 1936 Naval Estimates.
Chatfield is real, and again I may have strayed from history; in this case I have probably made him more interesting (or certainly more cavalier) than he really was. In a world of pretty dull civil servants, I wanted a touch of dash, or character. A compromise, hopefully not one too far!
And at its heart this is a chapter all about compromise, whether it is right to comply, or simply wrong. All battleships (arguably all warships, hell, arguably all ships) are a compromise, in capital ships of the era it is a balance between speed, weapons, and armour (simply put, I concede that there is more besides); Washington and its successor treaties introduced and then gleefully tightened an additional factor in ship design: tonnage. DNC and his foreign counterparts now had to juggle the factors prevalent in getting a good capital ship amidst pretty tight tonnage limits (not to mention the other key external of the interwar era, cost). The result, for Britain, is what would (later) become (in the real world, anyway) the oft-maligned King George Vs, the only new battleship class that the RN completed in time for the Second World War. These ships were criticised for their shortcomings while being developed, and have often been since portrayed as the least of that war’s newish generation of battleships. Winston Churchill, particularly, was loud in his complaints about their relatively small calibre of main armament. Did he have a point? Probably, although how much those shortcomings really mattered is a question for debate. But at least on paper, the KGVs' 14-inch guns, firing a 1590 lb shell, made them among the least powerfully armed new battleships of the day. The construction, as we shall see going forward, was far from trouble free. However, I have some sympathy with the argument in rebuttal that to write them off does them an injustice. Of the five built one, HMS Prince of Wales, was of course famously lost, but the surviving ships could be argued to have done (perhaps inelegantly) what was required of them. I therefore think that my view is that the design was not perfect, but they were better than history has sometimes credited. For a ship built with eye watering constraints (the Treaties, cost and engineering limitations), they were, in my view, perhaps as good a design as you were going to get. It is my view that the question that often isn’t asked is whether the British should have persevered as hard as they did in getting this 1936 agreement.
There are a couple of other little hints, there were attempts to engage with the Northern European regional powers, as well as the Russians, and these will be explored idc. I also couldn’t resist, given what eventually happened, having Chatfield be the one to hint about the looming ‘Minister of Defence Cooperation’. Which is precisely where we’re heading next…
@Captured Joe : The thing is, he was…
@DensleyBlair : Thank you! I did vaguely remember the ‘Heil Boothby’ comment, although in truth I was aping KGVI, who wondered, when Ribbentwerp met him, whether he should shout ‘Heil George’!
@TheButterflyComposer : Y’know I have to agree. I used to hate the BCF of earlier iterations of HOI and genuinely hoped that we had avoided it.
@El Pip : I have to confess (a lot of confessing, this evening!) that we’re going on a little mission around the world a bit before we get back to Eddie.
@stnylan : A very well judged comment, as ever. You’re right, and it was in typing this update (and planning another) that I realised just how busy he was. With a poor ‘supporting cast’, particularly in early ’36, he was spread very, very thin.
@TheButterflyComposer : There’s a great line in ‘To Play the King’ where Dobbs (rightly) assess that the Upper Classes survive by absorbing just enough fresh blood (and preferably bringing with it a ton of cash) to keep the whole thing going.
@Cromwell : I hear you, Sir, and have a plan to include MacDonald in an upcoming update.
@DensleyBlair : A view still held, widely, on the left I believe.
@Specialist290 : I agree, actually. He won a skirmish while losing the overall concern.
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A rarer thing in the world today. Even the former bastions of this trait, various Americans who genuinely adore their union, their army, navy, constitution whatever, seem to be thin in the ground, if they ever existed at all.
Primacy? It's a bit late for that. First amongst equals perhaps, and only because its peacetime. Japan and the US are almost up to tonnage, and the latter poised to take primacy with some investments. There'd have to be a Anglo-franco union to catch up at this point.
The work of an engineer is long and laborious - and thankless
Eden ... do we get a hint here of something not quite so placid? Eden, in OTL of course, eventually saw a line cross he could not abide. In this update it seems we have a glimpse of that might-have-been. Of course, this Eden will end up facing some different challenges all too soon.
The KGVs weren't bad ships per se, but as you say children of compromise and handicapped by timing. If we had starting building them maybe even six months later they might have been reworked into something different. The 14" requirement was truly an obscene piece of political chicanery, especially considering the 15/42 was an exception gun even if 25 years on. For all that the KGVs did sterling work, even HMS Prince of Wales despite her time being cut short.
Frankly, the Second London Naval Treaty is politically a very poor politacal act. But then WW1 is probably the only major war the RN ever began well-funded, due to sustained public pressure from the 1880s to the 1910s that was truly unique.
Still, this is also the era that would give us the Tribal class destroyer. So it's not all bad historically.
Eden ... do we get a hint here of something not quite so placid? Eden, in OTL of course, eventually saw a line cross he could not abide. In this update it seems we have a glimpse of that might-have-been. Of course, this Eden will end up facing some different challenges all too soon.
The KGVs weren't bad ships per se, but as you say children of compromise and handicapped by timing. If we had starting building them maybe even six months later they might have been reworked into something different. The 14" requirement was truly an obscene piece of political chicanery, especially considering the 15/42 was an exception gun even if 25 years on. For all that the KGVs did sterling work, even HMS Prince of Wales despite her time being cut short.
Frankly, the Second London Naval Treaty is politically a very poor politacal act. But then WW1 is probably the only major war the RN ever began well-funded, due to sustained public pressure from the 1880s to the 1910s that was truly unique.
Still, this is also the era that would give us the Tribal class destroyer. So it's not all bad historically.
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? They weren't or were well funded? I presume ww one was extremely overfunded because of the battleship war, unless they skimped on everything else to keep up? Was the whole 'more powerful than the next two navies combined' a fairly temporary thing at the end of the 19th century then? Makes sense when you think about it, a terribly expensive undertaking when several other industrialised world or continent spanning empires exist simultaneously.
Some catching up - first, the second last chapter:
It also happens at below leader level when both sides may be well enough briefed, but neither side has the remit or authority to ad lib beyond agreed policy positions or points to be made. Which describes both Eden and Ribbentrop in this case. All you can do is make the points you have as well as you can. It is different when it is a bilateral call (as this one was) rather than multilateral (as the League meeting will be), when there is an audience of other countries to consider. But even so, in the end all this was was a sounding out - neither expected to change the views of the other, but more to discover what line the other might take at the main plenary meeting and see what room for manoeuvre there might be - especially in Eden’s case. You portrayed that very well.
It is your reality now, so the resemblance is neither too little or too much: it is exactly as it should be!
There is always another one until, well, the Allies just get tired of them and end up resignedly going to war from moral exhaustion.
Having sat in on and led (at different levels) many international meetings - some on rather fraught topics - it is interesting to see (and sometimes in the fine print to interpret) the difference between actual or diplomatic ‘misunderstanding’. Sometimes the misunderstanding is actual, with the two separate conversations at intellectual cross purposes. More often, it is one side making a point or pursuing a line the other is well briefed on and understands very well, but refuses to even acknowledge, let alone engages with. Could be to show disdain for the point/other side, or conversely to avoid the appearance of disagreement by simply ignoring a difficult topic. One suspects such nuance and sensibility would be something well beyond Ribbentrop’s repertoire
It also happens at below leader level when both sides may be well enough briefed, but neither side has the remit or authority to ad lib beyond agreed policy positions or points to be made. Which describes both Eden and Ribbentrop in this case. All you can do is make the points you have as well as you can. It is different when it is a bilateral call (as this one was) rather than multilateral (as the League meeting will be), when there is an audience of other countries to consider. But even so, in the end all this was was a sounding out - neither expected to change the views of the other, but more to discover what line the other might take at the main plenary meeting and see what room for manoeuvre there might be - especially in Eden’s case. You portrayed that very well.
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Typo/correction error does a googly to get me out. However the umpires judge the bowler overstepped the crease and therefore a no-ball is ruled an the post has been edited
In 1914 they were well-funded generally - and exceptionally so in capital ships - a legacy of the two-power standard introduced by the 1889 Naval Defence Act, and also the Anglo-German naval arms race which really started to kick into gear 1900-ish. Prior to the Naval Defence Act the navy was frequently being denied funds by Gladstone and Disraeli (albeit for rather different reasons). There was something of a public campaign in the latter 1880s that led, in part, to the 1889 Act.
But yes, throughout most of the 19th century Britain's position was not one of dominance, but had more in common with the situation of proceeding centuries. Parliament only rarely wants to give the Navy money (nothing new there). Of course in the 19th century you have - really from the tail end of the Napoleonic Wars - increasingly rapid technological change that starts to make ships obsolete increasingly quickly, which then in the 35 years between HMS Warrior and HMS Majestic just goes absolutely insane. So the everyone keeps starting back at square 1 every few years. By the 1890s things are starting to settle down finally, but also the naval shipbuilding industry in the UK proper synergises at about this time. Britain in the 1890s and early 1900s has the shipbuilding and naval industrial capacity to outbuild pretty much anyone, or several combinations of someones.
So in the 1890s it all came together - capacity, political will, funds. It all ends up with the Grand Fleet of WW1. That said, by 1914 the naval race with Germany was won, and the money was just starting to be turned off when the war started.
Latest episode: I admire the style and character you invest the characters with. You really make them come alive. As mentioned in my comments on the previous chapter, I mind not a whit whether they remain 100% historically accurate, especially as the historical PODs multiply, or not.
A great update. As I have said in the past there can be no such thing as too many Royal Navy updates in a British AAR. I hope the battleships do end up being up gunned. I know the terrifying cost makes it unlikely but a man can dream. Oh and I am pleased to see you have plans for Ramsey, his rather casual relationship with the truth OTL might make him an interesting person to write TTL, but of course that's just my impression.
Well, looks like the latest forum maintenance ate some of the posts I (and a lot of other people) made earlier today :\
Don't have the will to recreate the whole thing from memory again, but suffice to say that from what I know about the KGV class's service history, I do agree that they got a bit of a bad rap due to circumstances beyond any inherent flaws in the ships themselves, and one of the chief culprits of that just so happens to be someone introduced in this latest chapter...
Don't have the will to recreate the whole thing from memory again, but suffice to say that from what I know about the KGV class's service history, I do agree that they got a bit of a bad rap due to circumstances beyond any inherent flaws in the ships themselves, and one of the chief culprits of that just so happens to be someone introduced in this latest chapter...