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A United Storyline for the North

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OK OK OK.

I guess I meant a north-Rus and Finnic realm cobbled togther out of necessity and diplomatic nouse that does not include Novgorod.
 
MattyG said:
OK OK OK.

I guess I meant a north-Rus and Finnic realm cobbled togther out of necessity and diplomatic nouse that does not include Novgorod.
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A fine idea.

I DO like the idea of a Finland which has cores on Hansa territory, to make if difficult for the League, and I LOVE the idea of events which lead to Novgorod leaving the League for Teutonic Order or Finland.

Can we create a Russo-Finnish state in the mid-1500s? This would be perfect timing.
 
Incompetent said:
Interesting... it all depends on how things play out in Russia I suppose, and certainly Finland can do well as it stands. I've never seen Finland do that well, though - did they DA Ukraine?
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In one game they did.. the rest they just kicked the collective asses of the Russian minors, TO and the Horde (often in cooperation with UKR, with FIN taking most of the spoils :eek: )
 
MattyG said:
Would a combined Finnish-Novgorod nation formed in the 1300s through astute royal marriage be a possibility? Both cultures, manpower and leadership, but a whole lot of revolts and rebellions if it ever gets to big and the individual cultures seek to be more independent.
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It would, but it wouldn't be Finland per se. It would in effect be just a different one of Finlands stronger neighbours expanding into her and gaining dominion over her territory; instead of Sweden, Novograd. The question is; and I don't know the answer off the top of my head, did Novograd have the kind of manpower during the era to subjugate that amount of territory?

You can kill a nation just as easily by trying to eat something bigger then your stomach. And that could be the case for Novograd on her own.

One thing that popped into my head as a viable option would be to have the Finland we know in the game being where the Swedish losers in the struggle to keep Sweden somewhat independant retreated to. So between the Swedes moving in, the native population, and some help from Novograd and the Hansa to counter the UofK; you probably have enough ooomph to get over the plausibility hump.

It would give a safety valve outlet for many of the Swedish, and to a degree Norwegian revolters to move to if they have the sense that a popular rising against the Union is something approaching suicide. This would give Finland periodic injections of population, somewhat militant bits of population.
 
Well, Rurik was "varyag", viking. He was invited to rule Slavs. All czars and knyazes up to Ivan Grozny, who was the last, was Rurikovich. Kalmar can say they have reestablished "rurik empire" and gain russian culture, because they can be, ahem, rightful ancestors of Rurik.
 
Freiksenet1987 said:
Well, Rurik was "varyag", viking. He was invited to rule Slavs. All czars and knyazes up to Ivan Grozny, who was the last, was Rurikovich. Kalmar can say they have reestablished "rurik empire" and gain russian culture, because they can be, ahem, rightful ancestors of Rurik.
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You mean that Finland can do that. I think this idea was for a reformed vision for Finland. Yes?
 
Great, then I hope to see such a credible storyline in the material you produce!


Now, back to what to do with Finland .....


Ideas?
 
I think with Hansaetic Monarch they will not ally with finland. But Swedish monarch can possibly do this. Finnish monarch will be really friendly initially, but Kalmar would try to capture finland later, effectively to form another big orthodox state. This is not really possible, especially with AI, because it needs lots of conversions to stay orthodox.
 
Finland and Kalmar usually suffer from thier neighbours ganging up on them, therefor I thought they could have a friendly policy towrds echother. (Kalmar ruled by danish interrests, swedish interrests in Finland a minor issue compared to Norway and Hansa conflicts).
 
My thoughs about reformation in Kalmar Union and Finland (province).

Rich people on south of sweden and in Denmark obviously do not want to pay money to church. Independent church is their church - and while trades in Denmark will probably go to Reformed, more pro-goverment people in Southern and Central Sweden will go Protestant. Conservative poors on north of sweden will stay faithful to catholicism.

Danish monarchs will have an A choice to go reformed, swedish - B choice reformed. This will cause heavy unrest, of course.

If UoK is orthodox reformation wont affect them this much, though they should have some sort of "altitude to new religion" event. If they choose very "conservative" view, they may gain few conversions if they survive massive rebelions across country.
If they have converted whole country (this is possible, especially if played by human), then they can express support to one of sides (protestant or catholic) or stay neutral.

Is that ok?
 
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Freiksenet1987 said:
My thoughs about reformation in Kalmar Union and Finland (province).

Rich people on south of sweden and in Denmark obviously do not want to pay money to church. Independent church is their church - and while trades in Denmark will probably go to Reformed, more pro-goverment people in Southern and Central Sweden will go Protestant. Conservative poors on north of sweden will stay faithful to catholicism.

Danish monarchs will have an A choice to go reformed, swedish - B choice reformed. This will cause heavy unrest, of course.

If UoK is orthodox reformation wont affect them this much, though they should have some sort of "altitude to new religion" event. If they choose very "conservative" view, they may gain few conversions if they survive massive rebelions across country.
If they have converted whole country (this is possible, especially if played by human), then they can express support to one of sides (protestant or catholic) or stay neutral.

Is that ok?
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This appears to be a good plan, although I am less qualified to speak about it than many other forumites.

What I will need to see (apart from the events themselves ... ) is a list of who you expect to 'normally' own the provinces in that region.

Then I can construct the generic religious conversion events for those provinces that will kick in when those countries DON'T own those provinces. This is the replacement system for using the set religious conversions in the province.csv file.

Best way to send such material to me is ...

Sjaelland; Normally Uof K, Sweden, Denmark, Hansa. Otherwise: Reformed.

Therefore, the Reformation events for UoK, Sweden, Denmark and Hansa will include Sjaelland in their event files. Otherwise, the generic files I create will occur for an alternative owner.

Matty
 
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