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unmerged(12742)

Sergeant
Dec 15, 2002
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First, I want to apologize in advance for this rant. I'm posting this in the hopes that one of the developers will read this and understand why we are pulling our hair out. Please, if anyone can add intelligently to this thread please do. I'm concerned that eventually the patches will quit coming and we will wake up with a still unplayable MP environment.

I play in a regular group of 6 players. We have been playing since December and we really enjoy HOI. Most of us seem to enjoy adding some flavor, like diplomacy via email, etc. However, we have to be the most patient group of gamers on earth to keep attempting to play this game in MP. One of our members last night likened playing HOI MP to the early days of online gaming. I have to agree.

- Chatroom. This has to be fixed. If a player exits and then comes back in, sometimes other players can't see him, names start getting listed twice, and all sorts of other problems.

- Loading the game. Almost every load of the game results in a CTD for one of the six players. Then everyone has to ctrl-alt-del and shut down HOI in the loading screen and restart, hoping no one else CTD's on the next load.

- Lag. Anything over 6 players produces unbearable lag. How come almost everyone out there can play very data-intensive games such as MOH without the game killing lag we experience running HOI in below normal speed? It has to be the network code. I would like to hear from anyone out there who does not regularly have problems playing over 6 players. I know there are exceptions from time-to-time, but even cable players have problems frequently on larger games.

- Bugs. We could start another thread on this, but last night we had a particularly nasty bug I will use as an example. On 9/12/36 at exactly 0:00 hours, the host would CTD. We tried a different host, same CTD. Finally, the host ran the game in SP for a couple of days until we got past that firm crash date, then saved and resent the data files (via email, because the in-game transfer algorithm sucks). Of course, this got us past the crash, but we all had units moving all over the place (from the AI playing us for a couple of days) and the UK had convoys all screwed up which is terribly frustrating given the sheer number of convoys.

The above bug example is just one example of what we have to go through to make this game work in MP. It cost us over an hour and tons of frustration. This is the point of my thread, we seem to have to get creative and waste time every time we play.

It is a testimony to the love of HOI we all share in my group to put up with this game. I am asking the developers to read this and pleading that they remember us in the MP community.

Please give us some time and attention in an upcoming patch.

Ulster
 
Amen Brother!

I am in the group with Ulster and this post as well as the one I started called "my pain" is as a result of the "straw that broke the camel's back" game we had on Wed. night.

IF, and this is a big if, IF the MP part of HOI is fixed I will testify before congress that this is the best war game ever, and I will write a book about my love of the game and then go on an international book signing tour to promote it.

This game could be SOOOO much if only the MP code was better. I have to applaud Paradox on their rapid patches, and regular improvements with input from the users.

Heck if we could have stable code with 8 players (above six right now seems impossible) or even more this would change my way of life. I had a dream that the game could handle 20 players or more and all countries that had anything to possibly offer the war effort had a human player. Imagine if the Balkan states were human, the commonwealth nations human, the South American nations human, oh what a tangled webe we could weave! Okay I am laying it on a bit thick I know, I just want to highlight the difference between what the game IS and what I feel that it COULD BE with the right improvements.

On a side note I am now going through a bottle of tequila a week and am losing what little hair I have left due to the constant frustrations with this game in MP.
 
Yes, frustrations.

Also, if a player drop the AI should take over that nation. It would improve the chances of a working MP as a crashing player might have been a medium sized nation (Yugoslavia or Australia for example), important enough not to be allowed to just sit there, but not "that" important.
 
I'd rather it just sit there

If it were me, and I dropped, and we were not at war, I would want the other players to continue on and NOT let the AI take over. At least that way MY research and build queues will be left alone, and the AI won't be able to send all my units off on nonsensical ventures. I apply the Hippocratic Oath to the situation, which the AI, most definitely, does not.
 
I'm with you on that fpolli. Especially since alot of times I have many units in my queue that are completed, but I'm leaving there to keep my supplies cost down. Plus it doesn't show my true strength to other players. As a habitual player of France, you need to do these things and resort to such treachery. :D

I too would rather have it just sit there if not at war than to have the AI put all my units in play so when I come back I have a sea of red on my production screen. And to find out that my units are further driving everywhere consuming oil, having ships wandering aimlessly consuming even more oil...etc etc.

GI Tom
 
You're scaring me, guys. I've played MP several times over a LAN and encountered similar problems, but to a lesser degree. I want to branch into IP play because playing with only one or two other humans is so limiting. I'm not sure I like the equation; greater realism = more pain.
 
Originally posted by rmryan
You're scaring me, guys. I've played MP several times over a LAN and encountered similar problems, but to a lesser degree. I want to branch into IP play because playing with only one or two other humans is so limiting. I'm not sure I like the equation; greater realism = more pain.

You are having the same problems on a LAN? That's not very encouraging.

On a side note, we continued our game this Sunday. Once war in France broke out, the lag was horrid. I lost almost the entire German navy off of the coast of the Netherlands. The UK had sent a large fleet to engage my navy, I immediately knew that I had to get my fleet the hell out of there. Repeated clicks and retreats would not move my fleet. Finally, they moved, but only after losing every surface ship in the German navy. Only my subs got away.

Similar situations happen with land forces, clicking and moving have to often be done repetitively in order to overcome the lag factor.

Last night I played a 10 player game of Raven Shield. You know the game, super high graphics, lots of environmental effects, bullets whizzing by, etc. No lag. Why can't this game perform at least on par with these first person data-intensive games?

Oh, I dream of how this game would play if Redstorm or even Blizzard would write the net code.

Ulster

:confused: :confused:
 
However, we have to be the most patient group of gamers on earth to keep attempting to play this game in MP. One of our members last night likened playing HOI MP to the early days of online gaming. I have to agree.

Hehe, I can copy that.
But as former C64 player (once upon a time: OMG look at that Graphics of "Defender of the Crown!" - it must be the best game ever!) I am one of that freaks and I have to admit it has payed out after my first complete MP game (16 + 6 h, 8 players).

Ok, it was a pain whenever one had to leave or CTD to get it going again, but we managed it with patience. We also needed a 10MBit Host ( thx Mr.BigDeal ;) ) to play lagfree (and I think all other players had DSL) - but yes, we had a LOT of fun. And I am really looking for the next weekend to play again, hehe.

I really hope they manage to improve MP and Vnet functions (afk messages and such) - and HoI MP will be a blast!
 
Confirming Ulster's point

In that MP game Sunday I was the UK and France was AI. I took control of France to cause Germany as much pain as possible, we all knew France would fall. Anyway I took control and had 13 divisions sitting there, I clicked and clicked and clicked and clicked they wouldnt move then bam the game farted and jumped 5 hours ahead and they were encircled. It wouldnt have matter to the overall outcome but those 14 divisions would have been placed in Paris for the final battle.

I faced similar situations in africa and SE asia and it cost me big time in one area. It sucks when your fighting on 3 continents and fighting lag.

I have played MP games other then HOI as well, on a dial up for years and I have never had the level of lag issues I do with this game. It isnt -just- the connection or the host connection there has to be other factors within the game. I have had minimal issues with other games but time and again I seem to hear "its your connection" or "the host lives in a high traffic area". Just dosent add up to my other expirences this issue for me is exclusive to HOI.

Odin
 
Well, to some degree it's always a con issue.
But the point is to have a netcode reducing the influence a not-so-good/wide con has.
The only way to deal with lag atm is to play the game slower speed and to have a good host (1MBit+ up/down).
That spoken we played on "normal" most the times until "our" WWII broke out and we reduced speed to slow making it easier to handle moving armies...
 
I've tested by just firing it up on three of my machines on a local LAN (no Internet to worry about) and cranked it all the way to the fastest and it crashed in less than half an hour so I don't think Internet "lag" can be completely to blame.

We are playing with five of us across the US and Canada and we generally can go about two hours without crashing. One thing I'm doing now (not sure if it really helps or not) is to keep the game speed slower. If you want it stable you may need to not run above "normal" speed.

- Mithel