Abdicate mechanic

[IsaacCAT]

Preface: @olivenkranz , @Jiben , @Ixtli613 , @Torugu , The Worst, and myself have been playing a cooperative multiplayer game were we play successively during each king's life. The save game and AAR is in here. This morning during the discussion on the discord server I have thought that It would be nice to have the option to make your king abdicate.

Observation: Kings have abdicated many times in history, some voluntary and some others forced.

Suggestion: I would like to have the option to start an abdication process to the current king.

How:

The abdication mechanic will not be guaranteed, it will depend on various factors:

Low legitimacy will make it easier, on the contrary of high legitimacy

Poor health will make it easier

Young age will make it easier, on the contrary of old age

In summary, similar to Elective Succession factors value to elect the primary Heir. The stronger the abdication values, the more chances to make a successful abdication.

When the abdication button is selected, the game will evaluate the factors and if it is successful (dice roll), the king will abdicate and the primary heir will succeed the king. The abdicated king will have two possible outcomes: voluntary or forced abdication. If the dice roll has been tight the result will be forced abdication with a loyalty penalty for life: forced abdication. If the dice roll has not been tight, the king will have voluntary abdication with a loyalty boost for life: voluntary abdication.

If the abdication is not successful and the king hangs on, the legitimacy will take a hit and the loyalty of all the characters in the nation will have a negative factor: king rejected abdication for 24 months. However, the king will gain +1 Charisma and other perks.

After abdication has been tried, it cannot be tried again for 60 months on the same character.

Why:

• The player may want to try the chances of a failed abdication to reinforce the current king stats in exchange for loyalty and legitimacy.
• The player may want to trigger a succession to have a better king or for RP reasons.

 

[DukeLeto42]

I'd suggest a slight rework, focusing on the 3 possibilities ("no abdication," "forced abdication," and "voluntary abdication"). Since the three outcomes are really distinct, factors could impact each separately. For instance, legitimacy could have no bearing on the likelihood of a voluntary abdication, but lower legitimacy makes the forced abdication more likely. Low health would increase the likelihood of a voluntary abdication, but not so much the chance of a forced one. Average character loyalty would also be a good factor for the likelihood of a forced abdication.

Traits should also be a factor. Content rulers should be more willing to abdicate, as opposed to ambitious ones; the same should go for traits like just ("the time has come for me to step down") as opposed to arbitrary ("What? Abdicate? I AM THE STATE"). This way, a kind and just ruler who has ended up (through events, low stab, etc) without legitimacy and with disloyal characters could be virtually guaranteed to wipe the slate clean, while you might have to force out an incapable wastrel... but nobody will follow him if he tries to cause trouble after abdication anyways.

 

[IsaacCAT]

I'd suggest a slight rework, focusing on the 3 possibilities ("no abdication," "forced abdication," and "voluntary abdication"). Since the three outcomes are really distinct, factors could impact each separately. For instance, legitimacy could have no bearing on the likelihood of a voluntary abdication, but lower legitimacy makes the forced abdication more likely. Low health would increase the likelihood of a voluntary abdication, but not so much the chance of a forced one. Average character loyalty would also be a good factor for the likelihood of a forced abdication.

Traits should also be a factor. Content rulers should be more willing to abdicate, as opposed to ambitious ones; the same should go for traits like just ("the time has come for me to step down") as opposed to arbitrary ("What? Abdicate? I AM THE STATE"). This way, a kind and just ruler who has ended up (through events, low stab, etc) without legitimacy and with disloyal characters could be virtually guaranteed to wipe the slate clean, while you might have to force out an incapable wastrel... but nobody will follow him if he tries to cause trouble after abdication anyways.

Your idea is nice, but I do not want the player to know exactly the odds for each outcome. The way you present it, the player can edge very well the chances for each outcome. However I want this to be a bet.

For example:

Our King with 22 years old, low legitimacy and Poor health has an abdication factor of: 2 + 1 + 1 = 4. When you press abdication the game rolls two dices of 6 with a result of 8. The abdication is successful and with a wide margin, This has been a voluntary abdication.

But for the very same character, with a dice roll of 5 or 6, the abdication would be forced.

About the traits, it is a good idea, we can add some of them to the abdication factor. But I would prefer on the other hand to add them to the character after the abdication process, depending on the three results. Life shapes character.

 

[DukeLeto42]

Your idea is nice, but I do not want the player to know exactly the odds for each outcome. The way you present it, the player can edge very well the chances for each outcome. However I want this to be a bet.

The main reason I suggested having the outcome probabilities being fairly visible was because (to me, at least) this character action feels very much in line with the "bring to trial" option. As such, it would make sense to have those two mechanics to operate in a similar manner (that is, the button shows the initial probability of success, with a couple events as it plays out to modify the success).

About the traits, it is a good idea, we can add some of them to the abdication factor. But I would prefer on the other hand to add them to the character after the abdication process, depending on the three results. Life shapes character.

Yeah I should have been clearer on that - I was suggesting that preexisting traits should impact chances. I do like the idea that how abdication goes should have a strong impact on abdication chance.

 

[IsaacCAT]

The main reason I suggested having the outcome probabilities being fairly visible was because (to me, at least) this character action feels very much in line with the "bring to trial" option. As such, it would make sense to have those two mechanics to operate in a similar manner (that is, the button shows the initial probability of success, with a couple events as it plays out to modify the success).


Yeah I should have been clearer on that - I was suggesting that preexisting traits should impact chances. I do like the idea that how abdication goes should have a strong impact on abdication chance.

I like to think that I am not playing a game when playing the game.

I know this is a paradox, but it is not very immersive to see probabilites on a box. I prefer a text citing the factors involved but not giving probabilities.

If you want to calculate them you can go to the wiki, but for many players that will be hidden.

About some events modifying the success, this is something interesting for story playing but after doing many abdications it feels repetitive and gamey. It should be done differently.

Like make friends interaction. It is nice one time, then it becomes tedious and gamey after repeating the same events. It is a chore instead of an exciting mechanic.

 

[IsaacCAT]

On a side note, someday I hope buttons disappear. They feel gamey and I feel I am using office.com.

I like very much the metropolis/city/settlement interface.

 

[DukeLeto42]

They feel gamey and I feel I am using office.com.

That's cruel. I:R has much better performance than Microsoft products.

 

[Ixtli613]

Just to throw options out there, what about making it a triggered event rather than a clickable option. All the same factors can influence MTTH, and there can be multiple events for different types of abdication. Of course this adds more randomness and reduces the player agency, but it would be less 'gamey' I think.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Just to throw options out there, what about making it a triggered event rather than a clickable option. All the same factors can influence MTTH, and there can be multiple events for different types of abdication. Of course this adds more randomness and reduces the player agency, but it would be less 'gamey' I think.

Not bad, but it is too far on the simulate side.

I would argue that you can get rid of the clickable option and instead you have to do a gamepad + mouse combination, something like A + C + R Shift.

Joking aside, there could be some hidden triggers that will bring up the abdication event.

For example, if the player always side up with other characters options in the events. If the player makes decisions that are against the traits of the king, e.g., a cruel king will be more inclined to abdicate if you keep making your POPs happy, etc…

But I prefer the option for the player by clicking the throne left arm (secret button).

 

[KassandrosF]

great idea but i dont think it should be based on a dice roll, regardless if there could be some benefits to a failed abdication, i thi k it should a descicion that could become active for choice if the ruler reaches a couple conditions (popularity and legitimacy, i dont think health or age should be involved, could overcomplicate the system)

not related but maybe this mechanic could be reworked in conjuction to implement a way for monarchys to become republics, maybe the abdication of a king/emperor could lead to the establisment of a republic, maybe at low legitimacy or popularity an event could triger that would allow a king to peacefully abdicate and become an influential member of a republic or to trigger a civil war to fight for his right to stay in the throne