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Jun 19, 2004
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I think AGCEEP have nifty events for some basic coutries. Seems Papl States should have had the least change from all of them. Their goals are set soo far in the past and so far in the future that likely they would continue doing whatever they were doing for quite a while. So here are some good events from AGCEEP that could be adopted
========================================

##The Vinland Map
event = {
id = 251017
random = no
country = PAP
name = "The Vinland Map"
desc = "The Vinland Map is a 15th century map of the world. It is believed to have been commissioned circa 1440 to support the Council of Basel. Its captions tell of the Carpini mission carrying the Faith to Tartary in the Northeast, Bishop Eric Gnupsson visiting Vinland in the Northwest, Prester John established in the Southeast, and even Saint Brendan in the Antilles in the Southwest. The importance of the map is that it depicts a body of land across the Atlantic called Vinilanda Insula (Island of Vinland). In modern times the map was first found in 1957. Its current owner is Yale University. Two scientific conferences, in 1966 and 1996, were held to debate the map's authenticity, but no final determination could be made. If authentic it would be the oldest map of North America ever found."
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1440 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1449 }

(This is also posted in Vinland thread)
========================================

#One historic and one unlikely reaction to Luther
event = {
id = 251013
random = no
country = PAP
name = "Bull of excommunication: Exsurge Domine"
desc = "The condemnation of the ideas of Luther was not a hasty decision.
His Ninety-five Theses had been made known the 31 october of 1517 and judged
some weeks later as heretical by German theologians. It became a very
public controversy. One year later, Luther had the support of many German
princes and Rome began to worry. All these ideas of reform were becoming
more and more radical. Luther got as far as to appeal the Emperor to
destroy the power of the pope. The 15 july of 1520, after careful scrutiny
of his writings, Rome formally condemned forty-one propositions of Luther
and summoned him to recant. It did no good, of course, but at the time there
was already no space for a compromise. If the pope had tried for such a
compromise, it would have mean more trouble in Italy than peace in Germany."
style = 1
date = { day = 15 month = july year = 1520 }

action_a = {
name = "Let's condemn"
command = { type = CASH value = 100 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Try to compromise"
command = { type = STABILITY value = -2 }
command = { type = DOMESTIC which = INNOVATIVE value = 2 }
command = { type = DOMESTIC which = CENTRALIZATION value = -1 }
command = { type = CASH value = -50 }
}
}
=======================================
#Chinese Rites
event = {
id = 251012
trigger = {
exists = CHI
}
random = no
country = PAP
name = "The Question of the Chinese Rites"
desc = "On several occasions since 1645, the Jesuit missionaries in China
were criticized because they were letting their converts worship their
ancestors. The Jesuits explained that it was only a courtesy and an act of
filial piety that was facilitating the acceptation of the Christianity in
the very traditional Chinese society. In 1704, Rome forbad for good this practice,
bringing about the expulsion of all missionaries and the persecution of the Chinese converts."
style = 1
date = { day = 15 month = may year = 1704 }

action_a = {
name = "Ancestor worship is heresy"
command = { type = RELATION which = CHI value = -10 }
command = { type = DOMESTIC which = INNOVATIVE value = -1 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Ancestor worship is filial piety"
command = { type = STABILITY value = -1 }
command = { type = DOMESTIC which = INNOVATIVE value = 1 }
command = { type = SLEEPEVENT which = 10036 } #CHI: expulsion of the jesuits in 1722
}
}

this could be revorked in such a way as to have all the missionarries move into one of the more advanced chinese states

=======================

#The Soul of the American Indians
event = {
id = 251011
random = no
country = PAP
name = "Papal Bull: Sublimis Deus"
desc = "Following a long theological dispute, the pope Paul III decreed
that the Americans indian possessed souls and that their lives and
proprieties should be protected. That encouraged the creation of new missionnary
orders, and was completely ignored by the rich conquerors of the New-World."
style = 1
date = { day = 5 month = september year = 1537 }

action_a = {
name = "They have souls"
command = { type = RELATION which = CAS value = -10 }
command = { type = RELATION which = POR value = -10 }
command = { type = RELATION which = SPA value = -10 }
command = { type = MISSIONARIES value = 1 }
}
action_b = {
name = "They don't"
command = { type = VP value = -10 }
}
}
Eire, Genoa, Norway, Brittany all coudl be substituted into here.
Maya and Iroquois reaction and also the reaction of the iberians that culd be missionaries in the new world could be possible outcomes

===================================
 
I think also the warrior pope Julius II, of the early 1500's (he's the guy who originally hired the Swiss Guard) should be represented... in fact, the Papal States could have a special warrior AI for his timeframe....
 
I was thinking about an abberated Italy, and I wondered if there is room for a conflict between the Papal States and a Milan aspiring to be the King of Italy? A kind of Guelphs vs Ghibenllines for the Abberation time-period.
 
Yeah, there would be a lot of opposition from everyone in Italy, but a Milanese KoI could get some good leaders and monarchs, the conflict could be from the start of the game to the 17th century?
 
Why Sicilians would take part in reconstruction of KoI? Historical KoI is just the northern Italy north of Papal States after all. KoI reconstruction could be a possible goal for Milan surely, Sicily maybe, but Papal States or Genoa, no way. Popes hungry for secular power could surely want to expand Papal State, but Pope crowning himself a king is ... well ... kinda far-fetched idea. :D Same with Genoans, they are a republic after all.
 
Papal States would like to create a vassal Italian kingdom easily controlled, ruled by an own candidate, while the Milanese attempt to force the Pope to make them the KoI. The Genoese and Sicilians would try to stop them both to make sure the balance of power remain.
 
Byakhiam said:
Why Sicilians would take part in reconstruction of KoI? Historical KoI is just the northern Italy north of Papal States after all. KoI reconstruction could be a possible goal for Milan surely...

Or Swabia-Milan, in Abe's case. Southward expansion into Italy could be an interesting course for a Catholic Swabia (the default will probably be for Swabia to go Protestant and fight in the religious wars in Germany).
 
It should only be possible for early Milan, if it has failed Swabian Milan won't be intereesed. If it is a success, a catholic Swabia would be interrested in becoming the KoI, while a protestant Swabia probably wouldn't be that interrested in the italian throne, and probably compromise and dissolve the kingdom, only holding the Milan area self.

If the pope is able to create a vassal Italian kingdom, to secure papal controll in Italy, the protestant Swabians would become an enemy of the pope, since the pope would probably direct thier vassal kingdom to crusade against the heretics in Germany.

If Genoa hold most of the KoI area in the mid 1700s, Genoa should be able to become the Italian republic.

The Sicilians should only be involved in stopping the Italian kingdom to form.
 
Why exactly does Swabia inherit Milan anyways? If we do put in a KoI conflict it shouldn't be mandatory.

yourworstnightm said:
It should only be possible for early Milan, if it has failed Swabian Milan won't be intereesed. If it is a success, a catholic Swabia would be interrested in becoming the KoI, while a protestant Swabia probably wouldn't be that interrested in the italian throne, and probably compromise and dissolve the kingdom, only holding the Milan area self.

If Swabia does inherit Milan, then it might want to go for the throne to weaken the Pope in Italy if it's Protestant. If Swabia's Catholic, it would go for the throne anyway (better a King than a Duke, Swabia's a Dukedom right?)

yourworstnightm said:
If the pope is able to create a vassal Italian kingdom, to secure papal controll in Italy, the protestant Swabians would become an enemy of the pope, since the pope would probably direct thier vassal kingdom to crusade against the heretics in Germany.

If the Pope founds a Vassal KoI, Milan would be part of it. Milan was the traditional seat of the Kingdom and controling it was vital for Italy's legitimacy. If Milan was a vassal of the Pope, there'd be no way that his Holiness would allow the King to marry a Protestant.

yourworstnightm said:
If Genoa hold most of the KoI area in the mid 1700s, Genoa should be able to become the Italian republic.

That would be very unrealistic and totally change Genoa's focus in the game, I also don't think there would be a Republic holding all of northern Italy in the 18th Century.

yourworstnightm said:
The Sicilians should only be involved in stopping the Italian kingdom to form.

Well, it depends. I don't know how much Naples and Sicily were involved in northern Italy historically, but since it doesn't involve the south, I don't see why they would oppose it. Maybe they could be switching sides throughout the conflict.
 
The Sicilians should only be involved in stopping the Italian kingdom to form.

Well, if the Sicilians have good relations with the pope, perhaps the pope would like to put a Sicilian as kign of Italy?
 
A possible timeline:

Pope gets scared by Genoese influence with the capture of Venice, enlists the help of Duke Visconti of Milan against Genoa and an assortment of Italian Minors.

War ends with a return to the status quo, but Milan has practically destroyed all of the Italian city-states.

Duke Visconti persuades the new, weak Pope to make him the King of Italy, but dies a day after the Coronation due to eating tonnes at the banquet, without a male heir.

The Ambrosian Republic is declared with support from Genoa, the Italian city-states regain their independence, and a furious Pope supports Francesco Sforza.

Sforza captures Milan and most of the rebelling city-states, but a new Pope has been elected and he refuses to crown Sforza King of Italy, fearing his power.

More soon.
 
Sforza demands his title back and takes his army to march on Rome.

Genoa, Savoy and the remaining Republicans in Milan agree to help the Pope, as long as there will never be another King of Italy.

Sforza defeats all his enemies again and again in a brilliant campaign, but eventually accepts peace, giving up his title as King of Italy, but still being the Duke of Milan.

Sforza dies, and his son who is considered to be stupid and weak takes over in his place.

The Pope decides that the new Duke would be perfect for a vassal-King to do his bidding, and crowns Galeazzo Maria Sforza King of Italy soon later.

Even more soon
 
Since Swabia can inherit Milan, the early fate of Milan/KoI would probably direct a human player Swabia's gameplan.

Sicily would probably not stand still if the rest of Italy goes to war, but they will probably try to keep the status quo in Italy to prevent any North Italian power to become too strong.
Tuscany would probably not stand still, maybe the di Medicis would try to seize the throne themselves.
And a human player Swabia would look for an excuse to get involved.
And why would Savoie involve themselves, they have no further matter in Italy, i can understand milan trying to grab Piemonte, but if the Savoiards can't get a claim on the Italian throne themselves they would probably look wet instead of east.
 
Medicis were a truly powerful family yet they were no nobility. them being crowned a king would upset everyone. A title of a Count could be bestowed upon them with ease, title of a Duke after a successful war on behalf of Rome (They were friends IRL). they became ArchDukes of Tuscany in 1569.

http://galileo.rice.edu/galileo.html

Nice website here detailing Galilleo's patrons, his education and mostly deals with Italy in late 16th century
 
Again, why does Swabia inherit Milan? If we are going to make Milan into a medium power, shouldn't it not be annexed 1/4 of the way through the game? I think there should be four options: inherited by Swabia, inherited by Sicily, declare a Republic or find an obscure relative of the Sforza Dynasty and live on.
 
No nothern italian would be caught dead being ruled by the Sicilians. They smell, their women are hairy and they fk goats

A few italian sayings

Sicilians are so dirty...give them a bar of soap, and they'll eat it thinking it's cheese.

Better a dead man on the door step, than a Sicilian in the house

=====

This is all to prove a point. I do not know one sicilian. i do know many nortern italians and when they have parties they gossip about north vs. south differences and how this girl married a man from 3000 km away and what a shame it is.

Swabia inherits milan so the powerbase is there for them to go against bavaria i think
 
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So, perhaps the Swabian inheritance can also come apart at the seems. If the presuure from Bavaria brings them together then one of two things will happen. First, Bavaria swallows them, issue over with. Second, they are successful at rolling back Bavarian supremecy. The threat now gone and the cracks begin to appear between the German and Italian aristocracies. There is a civil war type event based on Italian/German lines of inheritance and the thing splits apart again.

Just an idea.