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Sounds to me like it's probable that Barons and the old CK advisors (spymaster, chancellor, etc.) will be along the lines of the government positions/advisors in Rome. Elevated from your standard gaggle of courtiers that were your "court" in CK with some in-game effect based on their stats/traits.
 
Cloer said:
Micromanagement Hell!
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This. All these "Which education..."-, "Shall we be pals..."-, "Hey boss, I need some money..."- and other "Pay attention to me!"-Events were painful in CK1 already. Please not more of it.
 
Stuckenschmidt said:
This. All these "Which education..."-, "Shall we be pals..."-, "Hey boss, I need some money..."- and other "Pay attention to me!"-Events were painful in CK1 already. Please not more of it.
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In an ideal some of the micromanagement would be toggleable on/off. There's value in flexibility. Taste for micromanagement depends probably on who are you playing as... you would need some micromanagement for one-province counts otherwise it gets boring.
 
Stuckenschmidt said:
This. All these "Which education..."-, "Shall we be pals..."-, "Hey boss, I need some money..."- and other "Pay attention to me!"-Events were painful in CK1 already. Please not more of it.
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They were only bad because they concerned characters in your court that you cared nothing for. If the courtiers are more relevant, not just the detritus of Christendom that always washed up in my CK1 court, the the events would be more relevant, too.
 
Stuckenschmidt said:
This. All these "Which education..."-, "Shall we be pals..."-, "Hey boss, I need some money..."- and other "Pay attention to me!"-Events were painful in CK1 already. Please not more of it.
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For your family and for the members of your court who hold a position [chancellor, martials etc] those events are necessary and important. and interesting.

And one of the reasons why CK is a good game. By all means have them not trigger for people you have no reason to care about
but if you got rid of them, then it would make the game dull as anything, just sitting around waiting for years for something, anything to happen. Like EU3 before the expansions. Youre playing characters, decades dont go past without nothing happening to people.

Being a Lord in this time, alot of those 'micromanagement' events are your DUTY, you looking out for your vassals like that is what you have promised to do in return for them being your vassal. If you dont want to do your duty, then why should they to you?

But more importantly, in game terms. You want stuff to do and to respond to. Having nothing to do sucks.
 
Orinsul said:
But more importantly, in game terms. You want stuff to do and to respond to. Having nothing to do sucks.
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Waiting for a random event to fire about a character that you could care less about does not constitute as "something to do". And that was one of CK's biggest flaws. Lack of stuff to do.
 
i did point out the restricting it to people you care about, but i suppose if you selective quote to ignore the place where youre actually agree with me.

Im hoping there will be alot of decisions and alot more buttons with direct things to do in CKII
hopefully alot of province management and church interaction and that sort of thing. And if they allow the option of automation, then they can have alot of things to do without having to worry about people complaining about micromanagement.

Rulers during the time were kept very busy with the day-to-day running of the court and county. Which is why wars caused so much trouble on the home front, the lord not being there made everything else more difficult. There ought to be stuff there you keep you busy there too.
 
Personally, I like the idea of Barons being implimented, especially as named characters. However, the question then becomes as a higher ranking noble, will I get to name my barons? So, for example, I as the Count of Province, have just seen an increase in my income. Mechanically, this means that there is now "room" for a new baron. Will the game randomly generate a new character, or will I be able to reward a courtier (either landless or otherwise) with this new barony? So that my steward has served me faithfully for years, and I wish to reward his good service my naming him Lord John Steward, Baron #4. If you understand what I am trying to say.

~Hawk

EDIT: Or given the possibility, I, Count of Province, view Lord Henry Example, Baron #2's loyalty to be beyond reproach. As such, I wish to gift him with Baron #4, thus he is now Lord Henry Example, Baron #2 & #4
 
Hawkeye1489 said:
Personally, I like the idea of Barons being implimented, especially as named characters. However, the question then becomes as a higher ranking noble, will I get to name my barons? So, for example, I as the Count of Province, have just seen an increase in my income. Mechanically, this means that there is now "room" for a new baron. Will the game randomly generate a new character, or will I be able to reward a courtier (either landless or otherwise) with this new barony? So that my steward has served me faithfully for years, and I wish to reward his good service my naming him Lord John Steward, Baron #4. If you understand what I am trying to say.

~Hawk

EDIT: Or given the possibility, I, Count of Province, view Lord Henry Example, Baron #2's loyalty to be beyond reproach. As such, I wish to gift him with Baron #4, thus he is now Lord Henry Example, Baron #2 & #4
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It would make sense to me that you would draw barons from your household knights and that kings, dukes, counts, and their ecclesiastical equivalents would all have barons directly under them. If you are on a frontier region where Christian lords do not currently exist (e.g., Iberia, North Africa), I would imagine that you would award baronies to successful knights, then eventually promote barons to counts and so on. Such was the nature of the more peripheral areas like Castile or the crusader states. Part of the challenge during the Iberian reconquista (and in part why it took so long) was demographic: you needed enough barons and commoners to repopulate newly conquered territory and to work out relationships with the conquered populations before initiating a new cycle of conquest. This was also much the story in Spain's conquests in the Western Hemisphere after 1492. In CK, I can generally conquer most of the Iberian Peninsula as Castile by about 1120, whereas in reality the Muslim principalities (taifas) were all but conquered by 1248.
 
I just hope barons are barons because they have been given a minor title, tied to a county, but of less importance. Because we all know that giving out titles is awesomely fun, and a nice way of involving yourself with courtiers. That guy who won that battle for you? If he's just 'Adam d'Eden' you might forget him, but if you hand him a knighthood...
 
I quick musing.

I'm wondering if you will necessarily control all the barons in your county? Or would it be possible that Barons that exist in your county are actually independent, or pledged to another liege?

It would make sense that Barons didn't exactly have to be "your Barons" and could operate independently, and pledge themselves to other lieges - even if that makes a doughnut out of your county.

In general though, I greatly support the idea of Barons they way Doomdark has described, gives you something to do even if you're a One-County-Minor. Ideally they will control little fiefs that comprise your county - as well as make up your advisors.
 
Radiohead said:
I quick musing.

It would make sense that Barons didn't exactly have to be "your Barons" and could operate independently, and pledge themselves to other lieges - even if that makes a doughnut out of your county.
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Oh I sure hope it isn't like that. It already irritates my sense of order when Provinces get inherited out of my Realm (let alone get inherited and/or vassal of the wrong Duke IN my Realm). Instead of 1000 Provinces, I now have to worry about 4000 Baronies moving about the map?

lol
 
Radiohead said:
It would make sense that Barons didn't exactly have to be "your Barons" and could operate independently, and pledge themselves to other lieges - even if that makes a doughnut out of your county.
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This sounds ominously like having barons operate in a similar manner to smaller countries in V2, which can be bullied around and influenced via the SoI mechanism.

I don't like the idea of having to keep dozens of individual barons within my king's SoI (for want of a better term) less they stray and side with a foreign noble. The micromanagement would be pretty hellish.

Nobles should have a degree of independence (depending on character traits) but should, I think, ultimately be tied to a particular crown.

Austen
 
Austen said:
This sounds ominously like having barons operate in a similar manner to smaller countries in V2, which can be bullied around and influenced via the SoI mechanism.

I don't like the idea of having to keep dozens of individual barons within my king's SoI (for want of a better term) less they stray and side with a foreign noble. The micromanagement would be pretty hellish.

Nobles should have a degree of independence (depending on character traits) but should, I think, ultimately be tied to a particular crown.

Austen
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If you are a King you would have your AI controlled Duke's take care of the smaller business, and all you have to worry about is keeping your Duke's in line.
 
Isn't the definition of a baron a noble who has his holdings directly from the king?
In which case any non-indipendant duke, and some counts would be barons...
 
Sortulv said:
Isn't the definition of a baron a noble who has his holdings directly from the king?
In which case any non-indipendant duke, and some counts would be barons...
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Nope. At least for the HRE I can say that. The equivalent to the Baron (called "Freiherr") can be vassal of everyone he wants. If he is vassal of the King a "Reichs-" is added ("Reichsfreiherr"). A baron does not need holdings at all.
 
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