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Patriarch of Bub

Lauc hum et Folgoratrix
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Sep 11, 2017
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Much imagery is shown in those few Steam screenshots. I wanted to share a few observations and thoughts I had, when viewing them.

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Is brown all around the best fashion choice of any landed aristocracy? Will wardrobe be an in game feature? Why is the event window sitting on a cloud of charcoal smoke?

I've chosen these two, because they better illustrates what I'll try to get across.

My main concern is in regards to the lack of colours, which applies both to the geographical map and to characters.

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(top left): can someone open a window or something? Oh, the one in the background seems open, so I guess it's night time. Maybe a brazier? A torch? A match? No? Do we need to discover fire in the revamped tech tree or wait for Prometheus to bring us some?

Geographical Map

I love the new terrain over the ck2 vanilla, but the lighting seems to be that of a cloudy day and I'm not taking about the fog of war, which looks like Mordor.

I doubt weather (I hope climate is though) will be a thing in the game, so why does I:R basks in sunlight and colour, while the middle ages must be filtered through grey?
The sun hasn't changed in the past 3000...

Though I never liked much the ck2 city sprawl, I hope they'll add something around castles or whatever settlement will be, because they seem as desolate as the Apostolic Palace in the heart of Rome.


Characters

See the first picture attached? The one with two characters standing.

It has a few problems regardless of possible preferences over art style and raises a few questions. I'm not criticising the art style in itself as that's a too subjective an opinion to make constructive criticism. Anyway here they are:


1. The light is behind the characters, rendering the figures much darker. This could work for an intrigue event, where the people are literally working in the shadows, but there is no reason why those two characters couldn't stand in front of a lit table themselves.

2. The background is fine, however how much variation are we going to see with backgrounds and clothing in regard to cultures? Ck2 always had more generic art and plenty of portrait packs, so it was easier to ignore what didn't fit, but here it is more specific, from setting to clothing, which makes me worry we'll see this at least from Ireland to Byzantium, the usual pan-European art style we all love. <3

3. Characters are more than just a head! Cool in theory, in practice we'll meet the same problem with backgrounds in terms of variety.

Disclaimer: the following are not dumb concerns...

What about breast size? (damn, could have phrased that better)
Bubs come in different shapes and sizes and some people, sometimes myself included, when marrying in ck2 wasn't necessarily to get the best claim or the best eugenics, but simply because our wife looked good!

(This sounds bad. Really bad. I swear I know irl there's more to a woman than her cookies, I'm married if that helps me look less like a cookie monster. But you get my point, yes? How deep am I digging this hole? :D)


4. Will "ugly" and "attractive" remain as character traits or can I actually breed goblins?

5. Showing the character body from head to hip will probably never deliver the body type variety, for both men and women, because of the huge amount of work necessary. As a consequence characters will look too similar, and you see this from the screenshots. I'll stay optimistic, but I'm being realistic.


In conclusion I hope the game is not in its final stage, because in terms of looks I'm really not sold. Thankfully graphics are usually changed without altering the checksum.
In the meanwhile I'll await those dev diaries, but I hope some artistic choices are really addressed.
 
4. Will "ugly" and "attractive" remain as character traits or can I actually breed goblins?

This has me intrigued. Creating goblin, inbred and deformed dynasties was something that i loved doing in CK 2 whenever playing with genetics.
 
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Personally, I dislike the UI more because it is frankly uninspired, boring and minimalistic. But about point 5: In the screenshot with the Welsh Harold(hide the pain guy) you can see the heir of his realm looking very evil. It would seem that the characters' facial expressions, posture and so on will change according to their personality, which I like a lot.

Also, the colours on the political map are waaay too bright, which wouldn't have been noticeable if the game wasn't so dark as opposed to Imperator Rome where you can see the same thing, but on an overall brighter game so it doesn't stand out.
 
This has me intrigued. Creating goblin and deformed dynasties was something that i loved doing in CK 2 whenever playing with genetics.
I once created a dynasty of manichean dwarves, it was a challenge but the whole dwarf thing in ck2 is based around a trait, while in ck3 it will be physically represented.
 
Personally, I dislike the UI more because it is frankly uninspired, boring and minimalistic. But about point 5: In the screenshot with the Welsh Harold(hide the pain guy) you can see the heir of his realm looking very evil. It would seem that the characters' facial expressions, posture and so on will change according to their personality, which I like a lot.

Also, the colours on the political map are waaay too bright, which wouldn't have been noticeable if the game wasn't so dark as opposed to Imperator Rome where you can see the same thing, but on an overall brighter game so it doesn't stand out.
The amount of dedication they are placing in portraying personalities is laudable. Absolutely no complaints there!
 
Well, they did say the genetic disfigurements in the style of the "Habsburg jaw" would be possible and visually represented. They also noted with some characters that you could see that the fathers nose had carried over to the son.

So I would expect them to convey a lot more "heritage" and overall information via character portraits/models than they could in CK2. I suspect that is a significant part of the reason why they have moved to 3D models stuck together from "pieces" as opposed to hand-drawn 2D portraits that do not support a "mix and match" approach.
 
What about breast size? (damn, could have phrased that better)

(This sounds bad. Really bad. I swear I know irl there's more to a woman than her cookies, I'm married if that helps me look less like a cookie monster. But you get my point, yes? How deep am I digging this hole? :D)

This is basically the worst concern about "artistic choice" to have and also the worst way to awkwardly bring it up! That's a bingo! Insisting that you aren't creepy is the best way to come across as really really creepy. I'm sure there are plenty of anime games coming out made by and for people who share this concern of yours.

More on topic, I actually don't like the 3D models. I like the idea, but I really don't think the models themselves look good enough. I realise it's early and there is probably a lot of work to do on them, but they're too uncanny right now to be really nice looking. I think this is a situation where being more stylised and opting for less realistic looking people would work, unless the graphics are vastly improved and the whole system given a lot of work so that randomly generated characters don't end up looking like dead-eyed homunculi.
 
UI and general "bleakness" are the only two things that I didn't like from the screenshots. Newcomers to the game aren't going to get scared by fancy medieval UI, in fact it might attract them. And colour, we need it! I'm not a fan of either desaturated or oversatured graphics, but damn the screenshots look dark and bleak. Fortunately UI or colour balance aren't something incredibly complex or difficult to edit, I think, so I'm confident they'll adjust them.
 
I think this is a situation where being more stylised and opting for less realistic looking people would work
I don't think they went for realistic at all. Seems like a deliberate choice to make cartoon characters. See the difference between Civilization 5 and 6. Imperator shows that they can do better
 
My main concern is in regards to the lack of colours, which applies both to the geographical map and to characters
Pretty much all software is switching up colors recently to just: some light color on a dark background.
 
Honestly, the more I look at the screenshots the more I like the visual style.

The problem with colours is that, because they're using stylised 3D models, bright colours could easily end up looking like a mobile game (it's kind of sad that we have a specific mobile game aesthetic, but you know what I mean).

I think if you look at the screenshot with the 2D art of the castle, it makes a lot more sense where they're going with the colour palette. Kind of light gothic, which suits the theme.
 
This is basically the worst concern about "artistic choice" to have and also the worst way to awkwardly bring it up! That's a bingo! Insisting that you aren't creepy is the best way to come across as really really creepy. I'm sure there are plenty of anime games coming out made by and for people who share this concern of yours.

More on topic, I actually don't like the 3D models. I like the idea, but I really don't think the models themselves look good enough. I realise it's early and there is probably a lot of work to do on them, but they're too uncanny right now to be really nice looking. I think this is a situation where being more stylised and opting for less realistic looking people would work, unless the graphics are vastly improved and the whole system given a lot of work so that randomly generated characters don't end up looking like dead-eyed homunculi.
Why do you assume I'm a porn-sick weeabo? :D
Didn't mean to land on creepy, just on fooling around. That said, as silly as that point is, it ties to this:
By showing head to hip, it's not just the head they will have to draw, really slimming the chance of getting variety.

I share your concern on the 3d models and really hope they improve them plenty by release.

I don't think they went for realistic at all. Seems like a deliberate choice to make cartoon characters. See the difference between Civilization 5 and 6. Imperator shows that they can do better
It does look very much like civ6, doesn't it? I actually don't mind in civ6 because everything matches that whimsical style, it's bright, and generally, whether you enjoy it or not, you can at least respect the coherence of the style they picked.

I don't think such style matches well for ck, but let's wait at least to see those personalities implemented on the 3d models!

Honestly, the more I look at the screenshots the more I like the visual style.

The problem with colours is that, because they're using stylised 3D models, bright colours could easily end up looking like a mobile game (it's kind of sad that we have a specific mobile game aesthetic, but you know what I mean).

I think if you look at the screenshot with the 2D art of the castle, it makes a lot more sense where they're going with the colour palette. Kind of light gothic, which suits the theme.
I understand what you mean on the mobile game look. But colours don't have to be uniform and saturated, let's look at I:R just to make a fair comparison.

But why must it always be cloudy when gothic? :p
 
I don't think they went for realistic at all. Seems like a deliberate choice to make cartoon characters. See the difference between Civilization 5 and 6. Imperator shows that they can do better

My guess is cartoon characters are easier to work with when it comes to combining ‘genetic’ features. The simpler forms make it easier to throw things together without looking ridiculous.
 
Why is there no farmlands and roads? The map looks sterile...

I was hoping for something more tbh. Would be nice if the map could become more exploited with farmlands and roads etc when development is increased.
 
4. Will "ugly" and "attractive" remain as character traits or can I actually breed goblins?

In the Keynote at PDXcon Henrik actually said that the artists have done a very good job of making people with the 'attractive' trait 'attractive' and the ones with the 'ugly' trait 'ugly'. so depending on how it works out in the end.... i daresay you will be happy with this aspect when the game comes out.
 
To sum it up for me:

- UI looks bland, uninspired and minimalist
- Characters look cartoonish
- Map looks empty and lacking color

So, if I have few concerns regarding the mechanics - as CK3 is being built on the shoulders of a giant by the same designer - I am not sold in the least at the graphics in their present state.
 
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