Add CK3 style title distribution

[dedd]

I think this is a rather interesting propostion that i haven't seen on this forum, basically this is my attempt at trying to fix the problem with families not having enough jobs (especially end game) for them and to also add some better historical immersion. Basically, you can assign each city a leader who then would answer to the province leader who will answer to the even bigger guy who is in charge of the region. As far as my knowledge goes the romans did implement a system pretty similar to this where there are different levels of governors so if you're worried about historical accuracy i think this is pretty plausible. As for how it may be implemented i think it could be the same as ck3, just more levels of titles, for example, first is city, then it's province, then it's region, then it's kingdom (example: gaul, magna graecia, asia minor, italia, hispania and etc.) and finally there's you the leader of the empire. The function of all those "vassals" would be more or less a mix between imperator's current features and the ck style, i.e. they build buildings, manage pops, manage policies and etc with you having the ability to do what they do too and the higher the title a person has the more power they'll have in the government, i think this would ease the burden of micromanaging a large late game empire and it's overall something that would make each playthrough a lot more interesting and give some motivation to play wide instead of tall.


EDIT: also speaking of adding ck3 style features i think the dread feature would be a really good addition too as a lot of the order in the ancient world was held via fear and authoritarianism

 

[Todie]

attempt at trying to fix the problem with families not having enough jobs (especially end game) for them

This is part of intended design. the families always expect a certain percentage of the jobs that you offer, and there is an intentional tention created between the prospects of making all families content, making some families grateful and favouring certain minor characters for other reasons such as their particularly useful tallents(stats) or traits.. all this while potentially leting larger or smaller scornage against some family(s) stand, knowing they're not powerful enough to act full on-treasonously in making a civil war start looming.

If this is a good system or not is an open question - my opinion on it is of course subjective, but in any case you'll end up with better discussion and better suggestions if you manage to cover your bases in terms of taking into account how the system in place works / is intended to work, etc.

No doubt the holdings system can be fleshed out and improved in various ways but in my opinion, lowering the level of abstraction in direction of more complex layers of different types of titles is not the right way to go.

(not to be discussed in your thread, but for example, adding responsibilities and relationships within great families could add a lot of flavour to them)

 

[dedd]

This is part of intended design. the families always expefct a certain percentage of the jobs that you offfer, and there is an intentional tention created between the prospects of making all families content, making some families grateful and favouring certain minor characters for other reasons such as their particularly useful tallents(stats) or traits.. all this while potentially leting larger or smaller scornage against some family(s) stand, knowing they're not powerful enough to act full on-treasonously in making a civil war start looming.

If this is a good system or not is an open question - my opinion on it is of course subjective, but in any case you'll end up with better discussion and better suggestions if you manage to cover your bases in terms of taking into account how the system in place works / is intended to work, etc.

No doubt the holdings system can be fleshed out and improved in various ways but in my opinion, lowering the level of abstraction in direction of more complex layers of different types of titles is not the right way to go.

(not to be discussed in your thread, but for example, adding responsibilities and relationships within great families could add a lot of flavour to them)

For the question wether or not the system is flawed i think i can raise both my hands as a yes. However i do gotta add that guessing whether or not the feature is working as intended is like the master shooter argument, i.e. if you tell a master shooter to shoot something and he just draws his pistol and shoots at a random direction, and if he hits something and says that that was his target, does that really mean it was his target? I'm not so sure, especially when considering the reports from ex paradox game tester and quality assurance staff.
All in all, i do agree with your post, except with his part over here :

lowering the level of abstraction in direction of more complex layers of different types of titles is not the right way to go.

Right now, in my humble opinion, imperator is suffering from too much blandness and not expanded enough features, the family system is a great idea on paper, but that's just it, on paper, when you actually get into it it's more like a nuisance more than anything and i think that by expanding it and allowing families to do more than just give passive bonuses or spawn a civil war/event or two every once in a while would be a great addition. Maybe i am wrong and this won't fix it and maybe it's actually a bad idea, but i do believe that it addresses the problem and tries to at least give an idea on how to fix it because in imperator if you're not building or conquering you're just waiting for the time to pass.

 

[Todie]

if you tell a master shooter to shoot something and he just draws his pistol and shoots at a random direction, and if he hits something and says that that was his target, does that really mean it was his target? I'm not so sure, especially when considering the reports from ex paradox game tester and quality assurance staff.

You probably didn't mean it towards me, but me toward who i heard it from? - otherwise, It's neat to be considered analogous to "a master shooter" but to be clear, I am NOT nor have I ever been a paradox game tester or quality assurance staff. (maybe I should be) I'm just a well informed vocal and passionate player/fan of the game and its development, and a 100-something-follower-andy twitch affiliate. The things I described regarding the games intended design are things gleaned from many months of developer diaries, questions asked and answered by devs on the forums, and a lot of time playing the game. I don't think the intentionality of this design is as clear to new / returning players as it should be (like many aspects of GSG's - IR in particular), and I'm not trying to say it's fully working as intended.

Right now, in my humble opinion, imperator is suffering from too much blandness and not expanded enough features, the family system is a great idea on paper, but that's just it, on paper, when you actually get into it it's more like a nuisance more than anything and i think that by expanding it and allowing families to do more than just give passive bonuses or spawn a civil war/event or two every once in a while would be a great addition. Maybe i am wrong and this won't fix it and maybe it's actually a bad idea, but i do believe that it addresses the problem and tries to at least give an idea on how to fix it because in imperator if you're not building or conquering you're just waiting for the time to pass.

I think we are in agreement about the problems/areas for improvement, I'm just not fond of the suggestion with holding titles in particular.