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unmerged(1290)

Corporal
Feb 27, 2001
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I enjoy EU very much with the 'basic setup.' However, I am intrigued by the IGC and the EU Generator, both of which I've downloaded but have yet to implement.

I tried the Fantasia scenario last night but couldn't stick with it...the 'ahistoricity' bugged me. So maybe the generator's not for me. However...looking at the readme for that program I see I can begin either randomly or historically. But is the program stable? Will it indeed back up and restore the original files seamlessly?

As far as the IGC, will I appreciate it more because of its increased fidelity to history? I'm a relative newbie...should I get more EU experience under my belt before trying out the IGC? And is the IGC easy to install, use, and remove?
 
The ICG is great and I recommend it highly. The latest version, 1.09c, is very easy to use. I would suggest that you consider making a separate EU install just for the ICG. This prevents any conflicts between the IGC and the original game and allows you to switch back and forth. (I actually have three installs: EU, EU IGC and a third I use for editing files.)
 
I am still new to EU (only just starting my second GC), but I have been monitoring this forum for about 3 weeks. I am having difficulty distinguishing between IGC and Real EU. What is the difference and which do all of you prefer?
 
What is the difference and which do all of you prefer?

This is not a simple question to answer. You should browse the readme files for both mods for detailed descriptions.

However, the basic philosophies between the two are quite different... To simplify, one might say that the IGC mainly strives to achieve a greater measure of historicity (correcting/adding monarchs and leaders, tweaking alliances, countries, etc), whereas Real EU attempts to correct certain play balance issues. The IGC leaves heavy game mechanic corrections to Paradox and the official patches whereas Real EU makes some fundamental changes by weakening all minors nations, etc.
However, this is not the whole story: The IGC also attempts to correct some play balance issues, but never in the radical way of Real EU, and Real EU has its own country additions, etc.

You will have to decide for yourself, but for the reasons stated I don't think that the two mods will ever become one.
 
Originally posted by Olaf the Unsure
I would suggest that you consider making a separate EU install just for the ICG. This prevents any conflicts between the IGC and the original game and allows you to switch back and forth.

I'd considered the second install idea...now I think I'll give it a try. Thanks!
 
To futher add to Doomdarks description one could say that IGC is more true to the CG, while Real EU tries to seek up the BG roots and put the player back under the "lack of cash" stress that was ever present in the original BG.

My personal opinion is that newbies should at first stick to the normal GC or the IGC. When you have learned how the game works and perhaps feel the CG/IGC is too easy to win and want something really difficult to put your teeth in, perhaps then consider switching to Real EU.

If you are not familiar with the BG and go directly to Real EU I believe you will be very frustrated over the lack of money and controll this will lead to. You really have to know how to play a slow, balanced, uphill game before you get much out of playing it I believe.
 
Originally posted by Doomdark


This is not a simple question to answer. You should browse the readme files for both mods for detailed descriptions.

However, the basic philosophies between the two are quite different... To simplify, one might say that the IGC mainly strives to achieve a greater measure of historicity (correcting/adding monarchs and leaders, tweaking alliances, countries, etc), whereas Real EU attempts to correct certain play balance issues. The IGC leaves heavy game mechanic corrections to Paradox and the official patches whereas Real EU makes some fundamental changes by weakening all minors nations, etc.
However, this is not the whole story: The IGC also attempts to correct some play balance issues, but never in the radical way of Real EU, and Real EU has its own country additions, etc.


Totally wrong :D

The IGC is attempting to obtain historicityby otaining a better 1492 map and enhanced monarchs, leaders files. by the contrary, no modifications are done to 2 of the most flawed EU mechanisms, ie the tech research and the tax proportion in kingdom incomes. These 2 combined mechanisms prodduces in IGC like in the normal GC a lot of unbelievable evolutions, mostly by giving minors an advantage in tech and for human player a greater revenues income than in reality.

Real EU addresses both these problems, by some file tweakings: not only harder the game is for human player, but the realism is enhanced: no nations, major or minor, is now lagging in tech race, colonization by AI minors will be limited, Poland will not regularly colonize Africa. Minors can achieve great results, but it will only be one or 2 occurences by game and no more the dozens any great campaign produces.

To be fair, real EU is based on IGC 1.07 and would not have been possible without. but the historicity of the IGC ceases around the 2 january 1492. without being perfect, Real EU is an attempt to get prolounged likely results: Turkey can annex Papal States :D but it will be less current to see Turkey annexing holstein.
 
Originally posted by Huszics
To futher add to Doomdarks description one could say that IGC is more true to the CG, while Real EU tries to seek up the BG roots and put the player back under the "lack of cash" stress that was ever present in the original BG.

My personal opinion is that newbies should at first stick to the normal GC or the IGC. When you have learned how the game works and perhaps feel the CG/IGC is too easy to win and want something really difficult to put your teeth in, perhaps then consider switching to Real EU.

If you are not familiar with the BG and go directly to Real EU I believe you will be very frustrated over the lack of money and controll this will lead to. You really have to know how to play a slow, balanced, uphill game before you get much out of playing it I believe.

you're right. Real EU is both an attempt to get some flavour of the original boardgame and to create a "real" advanced level.
 
Totally wrong

Laurent... Just some friendly advice: Lest you wish to appear rude and uncultured, you should always use a polite tone in your posts; especially when you are replying to a person whose opinions you do not share.

The IGC is attempting to obtain historicityby otaining a better 1492 map and enhanced monarchs, leaders files. by the contrary, no modifications are done to 2 of the most flawed EU mechanisms, ie the tech research and the tax proportion in kingdom incomes.

Unless I am totally mistaken, this is more or less exactly what I wrote in my post. I reiterate: the IGC leaves the heavier game balancing to Paradox. We know that Paradox is aware of the research rate problem and that they will hopefully fix it in future official patches. Changing tax proportion is a trivial hack and really a matter of personal taste.

These 2 combined mechanisms prodduces in IGC like in the normal GC a lot of unbelievable evolutions, mostly by giving minors an advantage in tech and for human player a greater revenues income than in reality.

Perhaps... The research rate and ratio concerning the number of owned provinces is indeed flawed; enough so that Paradox must fix it. However, I am not as concerned with what you call "a lot of unbelievable evolutions" resulting from this. History is not fated to play out the way it does. Pretty much anything can happen in 300 years. However, the AI could use some tweaking to choose provinces closer to home in peace treaties. This is something only Paradox can fix though.

Real EU addresses both these problems, by some file tweakings: not only harder the game is for human player, but the realism is enhanced: no nations, major or minor, is now lagging in tech race, colonization by AI minors will be limited, Poland will not regularly colonize Africa. Minors can achieve great results, but it will only be one or 2 occurences by game and no more the dozens any great campaign produces.

I don't think I've ever seen a Polish colony in Africa and I can swallow the minor nation successes during the 300 years of a Grand Campaign. In 1492 no one could have imagined the stupendous success stories of such pathetic minor powers as England, Russia and Brandenburg, let alone the rise and fall of Sweden or the appearance of an economic Dutch super power. Sure, they had potential, but so did Denmark, Saxony, Hungary, Venice, Burgundy (a little earlier), Bavaria, Bohemia, the southern Khanates and many others that "lost the race".

EU has a problem in that it penalizes the research rate for nations with many provinces too much, but IMO this is no reason to destroy the playability of so called "minor" nations by crippling their monarchs. Hence, this will never be a feature of the IGC.

To be fair, real EU is based on IGC 1.07 and would not have been possible without.

It is good that you remember that. Without conceit, I think we (the IGC team) deserve to be treated with a measure of respect by those who make use of our labor.

without being perfect, Real EU is an attempt to get prolounged likely results: Turkey can annex Papal States but it will be less current to see Turkey annexing holstein

I very much doubt that Real EU can fix the problem with AI priorities in peace negotiations. Trying to correct this by hacking the available data files is like putting out a fire by tearing down the house.

Of course, these are all my personal opinions and observations. I am not saying that Real EU does not have merit, or that Laurent is "Totally Wrong :D", what I am saying is that the IGC is based on a completely different philosophy.
 
oooh... that hurts

cmon people i dont wanna see RealEU (or rather LF) and the IGC teams go for each others' throats on these boards. The fact of the matter is that I really enjoy both RealEU and IGC (even have a copy of each on my HD, as well as the original 1.8) so dunno, why don't you guys work together instead of starting a flame war? :)
peace,
tuna
 
I enjoy them both, as well. And I don't see them as inconsistent. EU requires abstractions in a number of areas and each can be "historic" or "realistic" in its own way. Certainly, there are any number of plausible abstractions that can be made. The fact that EU allows such variety is one of its great strengths. And I appreciate the efforts of all those who are working to exploit that variety.
 
I enjoy them both, as well. And I don't see them as inconsistent. EU requires abstractions in a number of areas and each can be "historic" or "realistic" in its own way. Certainly, there are any number of plausible abstractions that can be made. The fact that EU allows such variety is one of its great strengths. And I appreciate the efforts of all those who are working to exploit that variety.

I agree completely. I also don't think any "zealots" for either approach disagree with this premise. That said, I rather enjoy the "flame wars". :)
 
Back to topic...I'd like to report that I now have three EU folders on my hard drive, one for the original game, one for the IGC, and one for the EU generator. All are working nicely.

I simply copied (as someone suggested) the contents of the original EU folder into two new folders, then unzipped the mods.
 
As long as care is taken not to get personal, I think a heated debate is good for development & progress.

"Both sides" attaking certain developmental roads is beneficial, because a good "defence" might convince the other side to agree and go down the same way or on the contrary a bad "defence" of a feature might convince the original creator that mayby it was not the best solution to begin with.

If there was no negative criticism, the strive for increased historicy might get off tracked =)

*Huszics happily sitting at ringside looking at the heavy weights championship fight*
 
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