Advice for converting to Vicky

[unmerged(75851)]

Hey, I'm playing as the Ottoman Empire in EU2 for a transfer and I got two questions....

http://www.paradoxian.org/vickywiki/index.php/EU2Vic



I'm at a point where I have high land, trade 6 and infra. 7 but very low naval. I know that I need to have naval up to 40 for me to get civilized status but, imo, it seems like a waste of time as I don't really use boats much as the Ottomans. I'd rather focus on minting a ton, building manufactories in my core territories and maxing out land and Infrastructure. Is being uncivilized really that big of a deal? What's the difference between civilized and uncivilized countries?


I have enough manuf's to start with two machine parts factories and with a high infra. I should start with 20 machine parts and I should have land tech 6 and 2 machine part factories and a ton of ducats + prestige and military units..... how easy will that make it for me to become civilized and research the tech necessary to do so?

Should this make becoming civilized easy enough that I should do this rather then wasting a fortune on useless naval tech to try to go for civilized status at the expense of all the other things?


Also, I'm tempted to shoot up my badboy rating and grab up a ton of German and Russian provinces since I know that in the sequel they'll each break off into various provinces. But I've read that if my badboy is too high that countries won't trade with me.

Is this really true? How high should I limit my badboy to being while I try and conquer more territories?

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

Uncivilised/Civilised is a huge deal in Vicky. An uncivilised nation is capped at 0.05 research points a month - ie it takes 200 months to research a basic technology that should take 12 months (10 RP). In comparison someone like Prussia will be getting about 0.8-0.9 RP a month at game start, rapidly increasing as they industrialise. In Vicky:Revolutions, the requirements to become civilised are 100 prestige, 75 industry and 25 military score. This may or may not be difficult, depending on your starting situation. There are other differences between Civ/Unciv, but the RP cap can often be the one that gets you left behind. By the sounds of things though, you could be alright - have a go is what I say.

As for badboy, there are two main effects. The first is the general one - if you have high badboy in Vicky, it will take more than an arm, leg, love, money, and first born child to convince someone to make a decent deal with you. You'll struggle to renew alliances, let alone trade for land or tech. The second is situation specific. If you share a border with someone, and you have high badboy, they will go to war with you (unless your mil score frightens them too much). This is of particular concern to Brazil (the French, Dutch and British colonies) and Mexico (US, and Britain in Belize). The Ottomans of course will have Russia and Austria to deal with - but keep an eye out just in case even a colony of yours shares a border with someone else.

I'm sure I've missed something, I don't think anyone will ever truly know all the secrets of Vicky... or understand just what's going on in the minds of atheist clergymen and communist aristocrats and capitalists. Try the Vicky forums if you need more info on the Vicky side of things.

 

[unmerged(75851)]

Well, I think I should have prestige and military down. My prestige is about 2500 and I've got enormous manpower so I can probably just build huge numbers of troops.


How about industry? I should start with 2 machine part factories about 10-25 machince parts. Will that make getting 75 industry be easy?

 

[Monkii-sama]

Just get some capitalists, laissez faire and let them build.

 

[Orm]

Uncivilised/Civilised is a huge deal in Vicky. An uncivilised nation is capped at 0.05 research points a month

It's not capped, but is cut back to a tenth of what a civilized nation would have under the same circumstances.

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

Really? That's my new thing learnt about Vicky for the day. I was going off my experience as Japan in 1.04 vanilla, it just wouldn't budge above that. Presumably it just wasn't increasing by an amount that would display... say going from 0.046 to 0.054 very slowly. Either way, it holds things back quite a bit.

 

[Slavick3000]

Badboy has a much "sharper" effect in Vicky than it does in EU2. Where in EU2 you wouldn't notice much difference in diplomacy at BB around 10 by the end of the game, it makes deals with the AI significantly more expensive in Vicky.

Secondly, I recommend going on a crash-research naval program for two reasons. One, being uncivilized (combined with any BB you might have left from EU2) leads to a higher chance of war declarations from civilized powers - particularly if you hold any of their cores, which is probably the case for Austria and/or Hungary, if they're still around. And you will only be able to build native regiments while uncivilized that are much worse in combat than their regular counterparts.
Two, having a good start on naval tech in Europa cuts down on the amount of naval research you have to do to get to dreadnoughts in Victoria, which is an excellent way of increasing your military score. And it is rather difficult to max out the naval tree without a head-start by 1936, which is what you want to do if you want to be a naval power in HoI (should you choose to convert to it).

 

[Taylor]

To get civilized, you'd have to build huge amounts of divisions, because irregular divisions only add a very small amount to your military score. By researching naval 40, you'll be saving yourself A LOT of trouble, so I say research it. Otherwise you'll be spending your first few decades in Vicky just civilizing, while the other powers research valuable techs.

About grabbing a few provinces: seems like a good idea to me. Sure, you'll get some badboy, but you will be a lot larger. Usually there's not a lot of trading in the beginning of the game anyway. By the time you get to trading, your badboy will have decayed again. But don't get your badboy too high, (certainly not if you're planning to become an unciv) because just like in EU2, the nations will hate you too much if you do. But I think a BB of ~15 should be manageable in Vicky.

 

[BurningEGO]

Well i have done many convertions into Vicky and i can tell you a couple of things if you are unciv...

Mass the goddamn boats in eu2!

I usually go with 2000 warships or so from eu2 into victoria, and guess what, military goes over 100 for sure. 2000 galleys wont be as good as 2000 warships but i believe they would also reach the criteria to become civilized. It is far better, easier, and faster, to build boats both in eu2 or Victoria in order to reach the military requisits to become civilized, since boats boost your military value like crazy and arent that hard to maintain. I usually built about 50-60 native warships in order to civilize victoria's starting china, if memory serves.

As for factories, i remember there were some big problems in early convertions... I dont know if its still the same, but before you would ONLY get your factories converted in CORE provinces.

Also going innovative is EXTREMELY important for the goodie literaccy bonus which boosts research speed.

I also remember always going mercantilism because the random parties created will have mercantilism instead of free trade which is far better - with mercantilism you can put tarrifs at 100% while with free trade, you cant.

Serfdom-Free subjects also paid a minor role in literacy but am not sure. They also influenced other minor stuff but not that important iirc. I believe going centralization was also good for both policy and literacy but once again not sure.

Also, 0% inflation was pretty important if memory serves because it meant you would receive a higher % from taxes. But usually countries make their big profit from tarrifs so if you are mercantilist i guess there arent many problems at all.

 

[Slavick3000]

I also remember always going free trade because the random parties created will have free trade instead of mercantilism which is far better - with free trade you can put tarrifs at 100% while with mercantilism, you cant.

I am pretty sure its the other way around - Free Trade prohibits you from putting tariffs above 10 (or maybe 20, not sure) percent, while Protectionism allows full tariffs.

 

[BurningEGO]

I am pretty sure its the other way around - Free Trade prohibits you from putting tariffs above 10 (or maybe 20, not sure) percent, while Protectionism allows full tariffs.

Oups my bad. You are right honey.

P.S: Edited my previous post, thanks again.

 

[Slavick3000]

Admittedly, Free Trade grants you a 50% discount on all imports, which is incredibly useful if you don't have a large colonial empire providing you with all the goods you need.
It's also good if you end up with a large amount of factories, as it allows you to move POPs from RGOs into factories, and just import the resources.

 

[BurningEGO]

But then you will have to search other sources of income. And taxes... well taxes increase militancy and cons, and since i always keep my pops at 0/0 i always go protectionism. But that obviously because i keep reactionary in single player for big part of the game. God, i love these sweet radios and the nationalist parties.

Although, the socialists are usually overpowered with their full citizenship and mass imigration.

But anyway, who cares about a 50% discount (didnt even know it gave a discount by the way), if you get huge amounts of cash? You also dont use money only for imports - you use money for a lot of other stuff. So its better to have a lot of money, then some discount on a single thing.