After becoming a kingdom, vassals dont care about Badboy anymore (Plus related Bug)

[Dignitas]

Using 1.03b. Not sure if it's a bug that was introduced with the latest patch, it's just the first time I noticed it. Here's my story:

I was the Duke of Argyll. The former King of Scotland had been sent to exile by some Muslims at the end of the 11th century, so there was no King. Due to my fathers wedding with Agnes d' Aquitaine, the daughter of the Duke of Poitou, I had inherited not only the lands in Scotland but also Agnes' "huge tracts of land ©", so I was vassal of the King of France. Not sure if that's important.

By grabbing all those titles and subsequently declaring war, my reputation had suffered a lot and i was literally struggling to keep my vassals peaceful. Finally I got a large enough portion of Scotland, so that I could create the "King of Scotland" title. (My goal for that game, since I was playing as the grandson of Lady Macbeth). Before creating the title and making myself king, my vassals had a monthly loyality change of -4.0 due to my reputation. After the creation of the title my reputation was'nt influencing them at all. Some had an overall growth of loyality of +5.0 and nothing about my reputation influencing their loyality in the loyality tooltip. It wasn't just a display bug, i let the game run a few months and loyality was raising steadily. Those counts were having a party!

I checked the court screen. And I still had a very bad reputation, just my vassals did'nt care. This was without saving and reloading. It just happened.

I did some tests to write a better bug report:

o I made my vassal the Count of Argyll Duke of Argyll and let the game run a few months: He still did'nt care.

o I appointed a new courtier to be the Count of Strathclyde. He did'nt care for my reputation

o I caused some new reputation hits by claiming some count titles. Reputation got worse, but the vassals did'nt care.

o I let my King die and his son inherit. My reputation was still very bad but none of my vassals cared.

o I saved the game and reloaded: Reputation and Loyality were working as intended. Vassals are mad at me like hell. Yay!


During my tests, another bug occured which may be related to this one and might help to find out where the Problem is:

I already mentioned that I was playing the Duke of Argyll at the beginning of the game. During my tests for the loyality bug I promoted the Count of Argyll the Duke of Argyll. Means: I gave him my old Duke title. Then something strange happed. He didn't get the counts as vassals that would belong to the Duchy of Argyll, but all Counts of Scotland that belonged to my realm! My counts in France did'nt become his vassals. The game handled this, like i gave him the title King of Scotland.
Update: He got exactly one count in the French part of my realm as vassal too. That was the only count that I appointed. All the others I just inherited from Agnes d' Aquitaine.
I think I know where the problem is. After I inherited the Duke of Poitou's lands, I was the Duke of Argyll and Poitou, but I was still handled as the Duke of Argyll (using it's coat of Arms). In an early version of the game, 1.01 I think, i would have been handled as the Duke of Poitou. This was changed in 1.02 or 1.03, but something was missed. Now there's a problem with handling the dynasties when inheriting trough a female line.

Savegames available of: Before becoming King, After becoming King

After reloading I could reproduce exactly the same things.

P.S. I hope my english was sufficient to describe this complicated issue.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

This has been reported before, because I remember reporting it myself.

I think it's a known thing that you have save and load after you create a title higher than your current (aka duke if you are count or king if you are duke). Otherwise grab claim costs are higher or lower than they should (depends on difficulty) and BadBoy doesn't matter. Though it could be nice if some FAQ or somesuch would say it.

Also the reason why those counts became vassals of duke of Argyll when you gave duke of Argyll to the count of Argyll is that all vassal - liege relationships go so that liege is always a title. Your scottish count vassals were of course vassals of Argyll, because they had been made as your vassals while you were Argyll. The french count vassals didn't run off because their listed liege is duke of Poitou, which you inherited via Agnes.

If I create a king title, when I have been duke, I never give the duke title I used to have away, before I have only dukes as vassals, as dukes are unable to be vassals to dukes and thus their liege is changed to the king title.

 

[Dignitas]

Ahh, thanks Byakhiam, very well explained.

And sorry i double reported it. Could not find it in the bug list.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Well, I guess Paradox doesn't feel this is a bug, at least not a very serious one. Which I agree, there are much more important things for the bugfixers to tackle than this.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Well I do think they should put in the faq.

Since if you don't know that you have to reload after gaining a higher title. The whole fun/purpose of the game is gone. Since you can then do what ever you like if you have high enough prestige without worrying about BB.

 

[Olaf the Unsure]

Also the reason why those counts became vassals of duke of Argyll when you gave duke of Argyll to the count of Argyll is that all vassal - liege relationships go so that liege is always a title. Your scottish count vassals were of course vassals of Argyll, because they had been made as your vassals while you were Argyll. The french count vassals didn't run off because their listed liege is duke of Poitou, which you inherited via Agnes.

If I create a king title, when I have been duke, I never give the duke title I used to have away, before I have only dukes as vassals, as dukes are unable to be vassals to dukes and thus their liege is changed to the king title.

You're right. I just view it like this: A vassal's allegiance is to the title-holder not the person. Counts are loyal to Dukes, who are loyal to Kings. When a person changes titles, the vassals go with the title. Makes sense to me, given the rather rigid hierarchy of the Middle Ages.