Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

AGC & EEP: Scandinavia

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I like the events, but can you repost your final version here when it is done? This will make it more easy to find the relevant events in the future, and will move some of the debate where it belongs. ;)

How will this interfere with the idea of having an independent Finland (Johans duchy)?
 
Originally posted by Sute]{h


How will this interfere with the idea of having an independent Finland (Johans duchy)?
Click to expand...

I was thinking of this also. Might have to put a condition in the trigger for Finland not to exist, but then those provinces will never convert. Maybe a seperate event set for FIN in case these don't fire??
 
In EEP and vanilla EU2 Finland can get independence only after 1720, so that isn't a problem there. Also those province requirements won't let the event trigger if Sweden doesn't own Finland for 'Mikael Agricola' and Finland and Nyland in 'Bishop of Åbo'. Of course atleast Agricola would propably have lived and tried to convert Finland to protestant, even if it would have been owned by independent Finland, Denmark or anyone who would have let him do his work.

I've got couple of other ideas for events also, like liberation of Sweden from Denmark, though those would be a lot date-specific events, and would need that war for specific time. Also as 1808-1809 Sweden lost Finland to Russia, there could be events to grant vassallization to Finland, and an event to change the capital to Nyland, as it was changed to newly founded Helsinki in 1812, though I cannot think any other realistic events for Finland ;)

On independent Finland, I think it is pretty fantasy setting. Though Finnish and Swedish ways and language are far more different than for example Estonian and Finnish, Sweden governed Finland pretty well, and it didn't have much own control. When Finland was part of Russia, it had enough control on its own things, so it could be a vassal of Russia. I say this as a native finn ;)
 
Last edited:
If you read some of the earlier post in this topic you will find, that we have discussed releasing Finland as a vassal for a limited time only. The reason for this was that it was governed very independently under Johan.
Originally posted by Arilou
After Gustav Vasa died he divided up Sweden into duchies, Erik was King, Johan got parts of Finland, Karl got Södermanland, Magnus got some castle too, don't remember which one.

In any case Johan was free to take a very independent hand in politics, (negotiating with the poles, almost getting dragged into a war in the process) after a while Erik got fed up and annexed the duchy and imprisoned his brother. (he was released later on, after Erik went mad)
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Sute]{h
If you read some of the earlier post in this topic you will find, that we have discussed releasing Finland as a vassal for a limited time only. The reason for this was that it was governed very independently under Johan.
Click to expand...

Of course this independent Duchy would have a (fantasy) option of resisting Erik (with dire consequences) and thus remaining independent, I'd probably use the John's Wasa Line monarchs and/or leaders.
 
Ah.. well, another option for a event would be to make Finland a vassal of Sweden, and use mostly swedish general-governors of Finland as monarchs.
 
Originally posted by Elmokki
Ah.. well, another option for a event would be to make Finland a vassal of Sweden, and use mostly swedish general-governors of Finland as monarchs.
Click to expand...

Maybe afterwards.

The scenario I'm focusing on is as follows:

In Gustav Vasa's Will event Finland is released as a vassal, also, tax reductions in Bergslagen and Svealand (to represent Karl's and Magnus' duchies who weren't as active)

As the conflict between Erik and John intensifies things get a bit more dicy (I'll probably have to rework the Fate of The Teutonic Order event, so that Finland too might get a shot at Estland)

Once John's treason progresses far enough (there should be ways to keep the peace with Erik) Erik has the option to invade his duchy or not, if he doesen't Finland stays as a swedish vassal (with cores on) and uses John's Vasa Line as monarchs (and leaders, possibly other swedish generals hailing from Finland might also be included) once that line is extinguished they get the choice between joining sweden again (historical choice) or electing a local duke (war with Sweden, - stab, revoltrisk, desertions)

If Erik invades the Duchy has the option to surrender (inherited by Sweden) or fight on, (- stab, revolts, desertions, vassalization is broken) If Finland still exists at Erik's historical fall John becomes King (as by that time Charles and many others would surely have moved against Erik) and John has the option of either fully incorporating the duchy into Sweden again or keeping it as a personal fiefdom (keeps it as a vassal with his line as the default monarchs) if Finland exists when Sigismund is overthrown they have the option of submitting to Charles or to Sigismund (submitting to Charles means inheritance, to Sigismund means vassalization to Poland) They keep the polish vasa-line as monarchs and once that line dies out they can either join their respective realm (Sweden or Poland as things turn out) or choose to strike out on their own (in which case some other kind of monarchs will have to be wakened)
 
Originally posted by Arilou
Maybe afterwards.

The scenario I'm focusing on is as follows:

In Gustav Vasa's Will event Finland is released as a vassal, also, tax reductions in Bergslagen and Svealand (to represent Karl's and Magnus' duchies who weren't as active)

As the conflict between Erik and John intensifies things get a bit more dicy (I'll probably have to rework the Fate of The Teutonic Order event, so that Finland too might get a shot at Estland)

Once John's treason progresses far enough (there should be ways to keep the peace with Erik) Erik has the option to invade his duchy or not, if he doesen't Finland stays as a swedish vassal (with cores on) and uses John's Vasa Line as monarchs (and leaders, possibly other swedish generals hailing from Finland might also be included) once that line is extinguished they get the choice between joining sweden again (historical choice) or electing a local duke (war with Sweden, - stab, revoltrisk, desertions)

If Erik invades the Duchy has the option to surrender (inherited by Sweden) or fight on, (- stab, revolts, desertions, vassalization is broken) If Finland still exists at Erik's historical fall John becomes King (as by that time Charles and many others would surely have moved against Erik) and John has the option of either fully incorporating the duchy into Sweden again or keeping it as a personal fiefdom (keeps it as a vassal with his line as the default monarchs) if Finland exists when Sigismund is overthrown they have the option of submitting to Charles or to Sigismund (submitting to Charles means inheritance, to Sigismund means vassalization to Poland) They keep the polish vasa-line as monarchs and once that line dies out they can either join their respective realm (Sweden or Poland as things turn out) or choose to strike out on their own (in which case some other kind of monarchs will have to be wakened)
Click to expand...

Sounds interesting, though pretty utopia. It should be noted though, that I'm not a guru, or even good in any parts of history, just couple of pieces from different places. Most of events I script are an idea from a text I have read.
 
Well, it's not all that incredible, and note that by this setup the chances of Finland actually surviving in AI hands is about 0 :)
 
And it will keep Sweden and Russia of each others backs for some time. :D
 
Originally posted by Sute]{h
And it will keep Sweden and Russia of each others backs for some time. :D
Click to expand...

Yeah, at least for a few years, and more if Finland stays independent.
 
I changed the cities of Kurland and Livland to Libau and Riga, respectively.

I don't know if it's good, so what do you think?
You have to alter a lot of other things too, like changing the captital of TO/LO...
I still think that Sweden should have a core on Kurland, though, since they tried to capture it at least twice.

I altered the trade goods in Estland and Ingermanland too, fish in Estland and grain in Ingermanland, but I really don't know...
It was a friend of mine who suggested it.

BTW, is there any event based on the Swedish invasion of Poland 1655?
 
I just wanted to ask this: Has anyone tried changing Bergslagen into a goldmine, and greatly lowering the tax value as was purposed some time ago? Would it result in more historical situations?
 
Basically I like the idea of letting Finland go vassal for a while (if for no other reason then at least because it gives less income to Sweden). However I fear that an independent Finland will create chaos (or at the best unhistorical situations) in the region.

If Finland were to automatically be allied to Sweden it could perhaps deter Muscowy (and TO/LO) from DoWing them constantly and getting easy territory, however that would also mean that Finland would get drawn into Danish/Swedish wars with the Hansas, Poland, and whomever controls the Baltics ... and I have no doubt that this will result in the Finnish provinces being distributed among all these nations - probably ending with Sweden DoWing them in the end and taking the rest ...

I'd say that making Finland independent is hazardous at best ... and an outright folly at it's worst :)

... unless of course someone has (or could come up with) and idea to overcome these problems ...
 
Sikker: Finland won't be independent (historically) for more than maybe 10-20 years (unless a human player decides otherwise) and they WON'T be in an alliance with Sweden.
 
I think Sikker were asking how we are going to prevent that Finland goes waring in the Baltic and either losing or gaining unhistorical provinces? And it can lead to some chaos, but we could have events that deals with this somehow... Erik could demand the territories back form the invaders of Finland. Then option A could be to return the province to Sweden, which would also improve the relations to Sweden.
 
Originally posted by Sute]{h
I think Sikker were asking how we are going to prevent that Finland goes waring in the Baltic and either losing or gaining unhistorical provinces? And it can lead to some chaos, but we could have events that deals with this somehow... Erik could demand the territories back form the invaders of Finland. Then option A could be to return the province to Sweden, which would also improve the relations to Sweden.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and the only provinces they are likely to GAIN would be the baltic ones (loosing would probably be more of an issue) and since those were sought-after by John anyway it's not that big a deal IMHO.

About that, anyone is for giving Kola and Karelia fortresses? Those can be given to colonies, and it would stop sweden from stealing them every game...
 
Originally posted by Arilou
Yeah, and the only provinces they are likely to GAIN would be the baltic ones (loosing would probably be more of an issue) and since those were sought-after by John anyway it's not that big a deal IMHO.

About that, anyone is for giving Kola and Karelia fortresses? Those can be given to colonies, and it would stop sweden from stealing them every game...
Click to expand...

They should have lower tax value as well, to reduce the point in going after them in the first place, which seems to be the way the Russia thread is headed.
 
I want to give some input on this thread since I like to play scandinavian nations :)
Reducing the income from finlandseems like a nice idea with me, I dislike the fact that provinces that were nearly inaccesible during winter gives income during this time of year. I really would like to see less income for "snow" provinces at least with low infrastructure countries. I agree that the vassal situation is hard to handle since it seems that sweden can break this without too much trouble. One idea (maybe not very historical) might be to let småland defect if Sweden breaks the union very early ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back