Death should be out of the players hand, if you are dedicated enough you can use the death to glorify your cause etc. etc. I had a whole plot backup for Freyr if his father died for instance.
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I agree with Player death, especially when it is out of their hands. It is why we have heirs, and an sudden loss of life could great an quite real and quite interesting power-struggle. But I can understand why some wouldn't want to lose their characters.
I get what you guys are saying, and I have a lot of respect for a player that can take a death and use it for interesting ICs. However, many of us have been writing these characters for the better part of a year. I would find it incredibly difficult to tear away someones character after they've spent so much time and work on it. I'd prefer to leave it up to the player.
"The strong do what they wish, the weak suffer what they must. You will learn that truth and comply with us, or we will bury you under the corpses of your people."
-Andun Lothario
Race: Human (Imperial)
Age: 23
Bio:
Andun was born to a poor but happy couple living in the slums of the Golden City. His childhood was a happy one, until the Dark One came and the city was destroyed. The young boy lost both his parents on that day, killed in front of him by stray arrows as they tried to protect their child. Andun made it out of the city alive, but was forced to fend for himself in he wilds. Bandits and deserters preyed upon him, but he managed to survive, stealing food to sustain his hunger and learning how to disappear to keep himself alive. He lived like this for over half a decade, each day a struggle to remain ahead of those who wished him ill. With a group of other children, orphaned by war, Andun survived and even thrived as the years went on.
But the boy’s luck ran out a few days after he turned twelve. Bandits he’d earlier robbed found the lair of the young thieves and took them in chains, killing Andun’s closest friend in the process. The bandits rode east towards a market for the now-enslaved children. At a river crossing, a lone stranger confronted the bandits, and demanded that the party of over twenty armed men pay a toll to ford the stream. The bandits refused, and attempted to fight their way through. The warrior pulled a bow and butchered the bandits as they waded across. In the confusion, Andun was able to free himself and his friends. Most of the children fled into the woods, but Andun pulled a knife from one of the bandits’ corpses and began executing those still alive, as retribution for his friend’s death. The warrior, who turned out to be the famed mervenary Gadren Ivardóttir, was so impressed by this action that she offered him a position in The Company of the Spear as her quiver-carrier. Andun accepted without hesitation.
Over the next decade, Andun honed his martial skills under the careful tutelage of his adopted mother Gadren. She also helped him develop his “might makes right” philosophy. He proved himself a cunning and ruthless strategist over and over again, and he became popular among the younger members of the company, who considered him their leader. His stance against mercenary work and towards carving out the Company’s own territory made him extremely unpopular with the leadership and the old guard. At age twenty, he led a coup against the former leader of The Company of the Song, seizing absolute power for himself and a few close allies. He is deeply cynical, and often cruel, and he refuses to comprise a single inch against his foes. Now, he seeks to preserve his rule over his company and his island, damn what anyone else thinks.
But the boy’s luck ran out a few days after he turned twelve. Bandits he’d earlier robbed found the lair of the young thieves and took them in chains, killing Andun’s closest friend in the process. The bandits rode east towards a market for the now-enslaved children. At a river crossing, a lone stranger confronted the bandits, and demanded that the party of over twenty armed men pay a toll to ford the stream. The bandits refused, and attempted to fight their way through. The warrior pulled a bow and butchered the bandits as they waded across. In the confusion, Andun was able to free himself and his friends. Most of the children fled into the woods, but Andun pulled a knife from one of the bandits’ corpses and began executing those still alive, as retribution for his friend’s death. The warrior, who turned out to be the famed mervenary Gadren Ivardóttir, was so impressed by this action that she offered him a position in The Company of the Spear as her quiver-carrier. Andun accepted without hesitation.
Over the next decade, Andun honed his martial skills under the careful tutelage of his adopted mother Gadren. She also helped him develop his “might makes right” philosophy. He proved himself a cunning and ruthless strategist over and over again, and he became popular among the younger members of the company, who considered him their leader. His stance against mercenary work and towards carving out the Company’s own territory made him extremely unpopular with the leadership and the old guard. At age twenty, he led a coup against the former leader of The Company of the Song, seizing absolute power for himself and a few close allies. He is deeply cynical, and often cruel, and he refuses to comprise a single inch against his foes. Now, he seeks to preserve his rule over his company and his island, damn what anyone else thinks.
"I am returning this place to its natural order. The only laws will be those of nature: kill, or be killed."
-Gadren “No Man’s Daughter”
Race: Norse
Age: 48
Bio:
Her detractors say that she was born from the unholy union of a wolf and a northern princess, her supporters claim she was born from the loins of the All-Father himself. The truth, is of course far less outlandish. Gadren “No Man’s Daughter” was born Gadren Ivarsdottir to a Norse jarl. Her father tried to force her into an arranged marriage, in response, she killed her father and her husband-to-be, along with everyone else at her wedding, before fleeing into the wilderness. There, she learned the ways of the beasts, eventually receiving signs from the wild to go south to the golden city, where she fought on the side of the light against the Dark One and his minions, barely escaping with her life.
A few years after the great battle in the golden city, Gadren encountered a band of mercenaries on her travels, all singing a chant in unison. Curious about the noise, and perhaps lonely from her time alone in the tundra, she joined the Mercenaries in their trek, teaching them the whistles of the birds, the murmurs of the ice, and the songs of the great direwolves. After bonding with a handsome young elven mercenary, Gadren was convinced to join The Company of the Song and quickly rose in the ranks to be considered the group’s most skilled and ferocious warrior.
Over the next twenty years, Gadren gave birth to a half-elven child, lost her love, and adopted a young boy with a terrible destiny. Her life was a hard one, but through her pessimistic outlook and fondness for black humor, hope for a future where her family can live in peace still shines through. Now, she stands at the right hand of her son and commander, sword ready to cut down any threats towards him.
A few years after the great battle in the golden city, Gadren encountered a band of mercenaries on her travels, all singing a chant in unison. Curious about the noise, and perhaps lonely from her time alone in the tundra, she joined the Mercenaries in their trek, teaching them the whistles of the birds, the murmurs of the ice, and the songs of the great direwolves. After bonding with a handsome young elven mercenary, Gadren was convinced to join The Company of the Song and quickly rose in the ranks to be considered the group’s most skilled and ferocious warrior.
Over the next twenty years, Gadren gave birth to a half-elven child, lost her love, and adopted a young boy with a terrible destiny. Her life was a hard one, but through her pessimistic outlook and fondness for black humor, hope for a future where her family can live in peace still shines through. Now, she stands at the right hand of her son and commander, sword ready to cut down any threats towards him.
"Can’t you see that The Company of the Song only wants to help! ”
-Luna Gadrendottir
Race: Norse (half-elf)
Age: 25
Bio:
For the daughter of one of the most vicious warriors of all time and sister of a tyrannical despot/slaver, Luna is surprisingly kind and naïve. A firm believer in the inner good of men, Luna was almost entirely raised by her father, who instilled in her a deep sense of love for her fellow men and desire to bring happiness and joy to others. When she was younger, Luna would encourage her little brother to ditch their mother’s lessons and drills, encouraging him to instead enjoy life and bond with other people in the company. This didn’t quite have the result she wanted, Andun learned to be manipulative and sly rather than honest and outgoing.
But she still loved and supported her brother. Even as he took power in the Stone Cliffs against the will of the people, she was still convinced that he did it for a greater good, even if she didn’t know what that greater good is. Though she is blind to her mother and brother’s cruelties, Luna is a very intelligent girl, well read and fluent in many different languages. Now, Luna travels up and down the mainland coasts in a great ship, begging alliance between the coastal nations and her brother’s small island to their south.
But she still loved and supported her brother. Even as he took power in the Stone Cliffs against the will of the people, she was still convinced that he did it for a greater good, even if she didn’t know what that greater good is. Though she is blind to her mother and brother’s cruelties, Luna is a very intelligent girl, well read and fluent in many different languages. Now, Luna travels up and down the mainland coasts in a great ship, begging alliance between the coastal nations and her brother’s small island to their south.
"Now, The Company of the Song may be bad for South Cliffs, but they’re certainly good for buisness”
-Arghavest Ironhead
Race: Dwarf, Moutain Culture
Age: 43
Bio:
A native of the mainland, Ironhead was faced with extreme amounts of prejudice and racism from the native’s of Stone Cliff when he moved his business to the southern islands. He was ruthless, destroying his rivals in an upward climb to the top of the merchants guild like a child crushing ants. In a few years, he was the wealthiest man on the island. But wealth had not bought Ironhead allies. Rather, his will to power and callous disregard of those who called themselves his superiors frightened the King, who had Ironhead imprisoned underneath his great castle.
When the Company of the Song deposed the tyrant king at the behest of his terrorized citizens, it was the recently freed Ironhead who gave them the idea to takeover the island in the king’s place. As a reward, Ironhead was given a spot on the Junta in a position of great power and influence. He is a greedy man, with a great chip on his shoulder from the days when he was mistreated by the Saltbeard dwarves. Now, Ironhead uses his position at the young commander’s ear to encourage a harsher stance against the native dwarves, giving their positions of power to his cronies and lining his pockets with their wealth.
When the Company of the Song deposed the tyrant king at the behest of his terrorized citizens, it was the recently freed Ironhead who gave them the idea to takeover the island in the king’s place. As a reward, Ironhead was given a spot on the Junta in a position of great power and influence. He is a greedy man, with a great chip on his shoulder from the days when he was mistreated by the Saltbeard dwarves. Now, Ironhead uses his position at the young commander’s ear to encourage a harsher stance against the native dwarves, giving their positions of power to his cronies and lining his pockets with their wealth.
"Oh shit! Did I poison THIS bolt!”
-Hans Binky
Race: Imperial Human
Age: 19
Bio:
Raised by pacifist parents, Hans decided to rebel against his overbearing mother by becoming an assassin. So, he went to an secret assassin school only to find out that he became horribly sick at even the sight of blood. Needless to say, he flunked out and left the school in shame. Hans tried his hands at other things, hustling marks out of their money and rigging horse races, but he only ended up deeper and deeper into debt. A year ago, his debt was purchased by a faction of merchants in the Stone Cliffs, who ordered him to assassinate the interim president in exchange for a clean slate. This was a poor choice.
With his charm and handsome visage, Hans was easily able to win Commander Andun’s favor, trust, and even love. But, whenever he tried to assassinate the commander he failed, miserably. After the twelfth failure, Andun began to grow suspicious and Hans confessed everything to him. In a rare act of mercy, the president spared Hans’ life, using him as bait to capture the other plotters. Hans is a friendly and outgoing person, charming but a coward who prefers to use others to fight his battles. Now, he remains Andun’s lover and works as the man’s personal spy (no assassination required.)
With his charm and handsome visage, Hans was easily able to win Commander Andun’s favor, trust, and even love. But, whenever he tried to assassinate the commander he failed, miserably. After the twelfth failure, Andun began to grow suspicious and Hans confessed everything to him. In a rare act of mercy, the president spared Hans’ life, using him as bait to capture the other plotters. Hans is a friendly and outgoing person, charming but a coward who prefers to use others to fight his battles. Now, he remains Andun’s lover and works as the man’s personal spy (no assassination required.)
I might be interested in joining, but I only read through the first half of the first game so there might still be a lot of lore to read for me.
If I start as an Orc chief in Southern Arguad would I have to deal with much pre-existing lore? Or is that still a largely undefined place?
If I start as an Orc chief in Southern Arguad would I have to deal with much pre-existing lore? Or is that still a largely undefined place?
((Viola you should join me in Goi'Orka the one and only orc city 
and well as far as orcs in the west go there's almost nothing about them you can do as you like.))
and well as far as orcs in the west go there's almost nothing about them you can do as you like.))
The Seven Stones of Barum
The Seven Stones of Barum are seven gems that were said to have brought down by the god Barum at the time when dwarves were created. They are rumored to have more magical power than the creator of all things, but this is unknown, for the Seven Stones have never left Tar-Kazmukh. The keeper of these stones is the High Priest of Barum, a dwarven mage of great power and reckoning. The current High Priest is Caín. He commands the Guards of the Stones, an elite regiment of axemen who swear loyalty to Barum, and Barum only. The Commander of the Guards is an old dwarf who is known only as 'Steelsplitter'. It is said that Steelsplitter once but a bar of pure steel in half, and that his strength is matched only by the gods. None of these rumors are confirmed of course, but no one has the nerve to ask Steelsplitter about it.
Here is the map with some choice real estate. Open in new tab for a better look. The coloured regions are open for players.
Firstly, the game is in need of some Dark players.
1. The kingdom of Arguad, led by Max's character. This kingdom hasn't been clearly defined and lots of room for players to create their own lore and culture.
2. Ghullkazid, ruled by Noco's character. We have a new player joining this one, so please consider another.
3. The Frozen Isles , better known as Kalare Isles after coming under the lordship of the exiled Kalare family, former kings of Norseland. Dark character vassals of Alex's character may join here.
4. open petty kingdom for orcs! We need someone who can do evil orcs justice. If you'd like to give it a shot, then assume this high chiefdom.
5 and 6. New players may join the Wilds as a baron level leader, commanding wilders or orcs. Pretty much an open book regarding the lore of this lot, who have often been caught in the middle in the war between Dark and Light.
7. The High Lordship of Karmont is in need of a vassal, led by Aedan's character. Committed worship to Birch, the former God-General of Darkness is advised.
8. There are several areas in Highathar that a Dwarf player could step into, or even an Elf as some Elves live within this kingdom. It is ruled by Deag's character and played a crucial role in the war on Darkness.
9. The Sultanate of Hroniden is led by Spectre. We have sufficient interest for now, so this kingdom is closed to new players.
10. We have several areas open for new players in Ecclestius, the imperialist kingdom of men, led by Sneaky. They once formed the backbone of the Golden Empire and were largely untouched by the War of Darkness, though many of it's young men perished fighting on foreign lands.
11. Galadriel is the home of the Elves, commanded by Pluto's character. They were at the forefront of the War on Darkness and open to new sub-cultures and lore.
12 and 13. Norseland is divided into feuding Jarldoms, with no king yet to be crowned since the contested King Half-Moon. King Ulfrik and his queen Ainikki united the land briefly but both perished in the War of Darkness. King Half-Moon failed to pick up the pieces and now the Jarldoms fight for the right to lead. A great place for a player looking to be independent with a good prospect of becoming a king.
The south is the Shattered Islands, though not numbered. Also a great place to forge your own lore and be independent.
Edit: Forgot Goi'Orka, the only Light Orc kingdom forged by Borguk during the War of Darkness - a good place to be a "good" Orc with room for expansion, im sure.
Firstly, the game is in need of some Dark players.
1. The kingdom of Arguad, led by Max's character. This kingdom hasn't been clearly defined and lots of room for players to create their own lore and culture.
2. Ghullkazid, ruled by Noco's character. We have a new player joining this one, so please consider another.
3. The Frozen Isles , better known as Kalare Isles after coming under the lordship of the exiled Kalare family, former kings of Norseland. Dark character vassals of Alex's character may join here.
4. open petty kingdom for orcs! We need someone who can do evil orcs justice. If you'd like to give it a shot, then assume this high chiefdom.
5 and 6. New players may join the Wilds as a baron level leader, commanding wilders or orcs. Pretty much an open book regarding the lore of this lot, who have often been caught in the middle in the war between Dark and Light.
7. The High Lordship of Karmont is in need of a vassal, led by Aedan's character. Committed worship to Birch, the former God-General of Darkness is advised.
8. There are several areas in Highathar that a Dwarf player could step into, or even an Elf as some Elves live within this kingdom. It is ruled by Deag's character and played a crucial role in the war on Darkness.
9. The Sultanate of Hroniden is led by Spectre. We have sufficient interest for now, so this kingdom is closed to new players.
10. We have several areas open for new players in Ecclestius, the imperialist kingdom of men, led by Sneaky. They once formed the backbone of the Golden Empire and were largely untouched by the War of Darkness, though many of it's young men perished fighting on foreign lands.
11. Galadriel is the home of the Elves, commanded by Pluto's character. They were at the forefront of the War on Darkness and open to new sub-cultures and lore.
12 and 13. Norseland is divided into feuding Jarldoms, with no king yet to be crowned since the contested King Half-Moon. King Ulfrik and his queen Ainikki united the land briefly but both perished in the War of Darkness. King Half-Moon failed to pick up the pieces and now the Jarldoms fight for the right to lead. A great place for a player looking to be independent with a good prospect of becoming a king.
The south is the Shattered Islands, though not numbered. Also a great place to forge your own lore and be independent.
Edit: Forgot Goi'Orka, the only Light Orc kingdom forged by Borguk during the War of Darkness - a good place to be a "good" Orc with room for expansion, im sure.
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Note for players joining or wanting to join Ecclestius, if you want a position in government that matters and has influence, not to mention be a part of a story arc that will most likely be forced upon you if you are in Ecclestius anyway, then the traits of schemer and economic is the best as that gives you a guaranteed place on the Kings council, and the ICs that follow that.
Also for information about Ecclestius:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...Dev-Thread&p=18952676&viewfull=1#post18952676
Also for information about Ecclestius:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...Dev-Thread&p=18952676&viewfull=1#post18952676
Map of the Shahdom of Herasnia
Key:
Hollow Circle - Capital
Solid Circle - City
Black Square - Castle
Brown Triangle - Mountain
Grey - Depression
Key:
Hollow Circle - Capital
Solid Circle - City
Black Square - Castle
Brown Triangle - Mountain
Grey - Depression
((More Info to come.))
BlackBishop is right. From an overall narrative point of view, yes death being out of player control is good, but from a GM point it can also be bad. You see the fact that players have characters that they are invested in makes it more likely for them to stay active, simple marketing trick with most games (find a way through reward or story to immerse and level a player up to the point they will bear through flaws or grind because they feel too invested to cease the game.) The logic that applies to video-games, such as MMO's or grand strategy games, applies here as well. Many of you had relatively good or interesting experiences and felt invested in the characters you made which encouraged your rejoining.
Using Jako as an example after you had left the game and come back you had done so as an elf called Aeron, I believe was his name, for the epilogue. Yet here you are playing characters more closely linked with the IC you had invested the most time in, Ainikki (pardon any misspellings). Point is you felt more inclined toward the one you had invested into, yes I realize you liked that one for multiple reason which caused heavy investment over time but that isn't the point. Point being you felt like it would be better to use an IC which you had placed more work into, which makes sense because no one likes to 'reinvent the wheel', all the time. It also allows you to expand upon the IC you used while playing and enjoying this game.
Now Deagaidh made a good point which coincides with Groogy's. It helps allow the story to move in an unplanned more organic manner, and helps show which players are dedicated. First I would denounce Groogy's claim because to me it simply came off as saying not wanting to be involved in something after a massive loss investment makes one undedicated toward the game. This is somewhat true in that if proper time and energy was invested than a player would feel the need to recover and move on, yet not all think in that manner. There are undoubtedly people who get the urge to back out after something rather negative occurs; such as the players who say get tag teamed in an early rush, and quite out of anger. This isn't to say they weren't dedicated or else they wouldn't have put in effort, so it is more of a time stamp in my personal opnion on that.With Deaghaidh's comment "Im probably a minority, but I'm in favor of character death. If Burntbeard hadn't died there would have been no Wrothiron. " He's actually showing a lot of ethos hear by stating a positive. When something bad happens to one's IC it forces them to respond leading them down a new path, especially if they are the player who maps out an outline on how they want their IC to develop.
Dadarian quickly pointed out "I agree with the steampunk Gael. Death is a fun part of these games." No it isn't that is why the game isn't focused on death and this is a secondary mechanic, in that its changing won't affect core game mechanics. Assuming he meant what Jako and Deagaidh were getting at, players can still kill off their ICs. In my game Landfallen nothing could kill you, in BlackBishop's Agorath you had no control. This is the middle ground besides player will have the choice to kill off their character, if they feel it would improve their IC, or keep it so their current IC objectives aren't ruined. This also won't keep fun things from happening, for instance in the last game very little of the fun came from a character dying, most came from player interaction. Pointing out at my own GM experience that is far more important for a game's enjoyably because players how interacted with each other stayed far more active than those who refused to interact.
This player interaction and IC interweaving is what made the original Agorath fun. Look back into the game and you'll find that death wasn't the only or even most challenging thing for a player's IC. For instance war, with people being invaded without warning by opposing players. Does that not cause something out of the victimized player's control to happen? What about our joint IC Jako where you surprised me in it by imprisoning my character. I had the choice to tell you to back off to keep to my IC objectives, but I went along with it. Then I did a follow up IC which caused even more headaches for us light players with that little scenario. Did not my own choice to go along with the thing out of my control make things interesting? Did me doing a follow up IC which made it more difficult for you to stick to the plan you outlined for that scenario? To finalize this serious post is that the death system whether in or out of players' control is irrelevant because its player interaction that makes any game fun. Argue against it if that is your nature but from GM point of view the whole decision on who controls the death system is a mute point.
i agree that MOSTLY with iis, but i feel like their should be some death involved otherwise whats the point of doing grand plots if when they work the victims just shrug it off, im not saying characters should be forced to die, but maybe some way to encourage a little of it, as it keeps things interesting and fresh, but i also understand people being attached so i can see BB's point and trust him to make the right choice
If you can't die, why bother trying anything less then throwing yourself at everything always?
Any new players looking at the sections marked 8, I'd be interested in having a Dale to complement my Lonely Mountain, which could be a profitable and advantageous position for you. On the other hand it'd be extraordinaryly bad place for bad orcs, as I would promptly turn your corpse into a musical instrument or charming objet d'art.
I'm in favour of character death being possible without player consent, but trust that Bishop will handle it well enough either way.
If by some chance a person has suffered enough brain injuries to actually want to be my vassal, I'll note that Bishop's phrase, "Committed worship to Birch, the former God-General of Darkness is advised." is true enough, in that not following that advice will result in you becoming subjugation target number 1. So be prepared to fully accept without question myblatant propaganda and revisionism Holy Truth and submit yourself to the will of His Magnificence Birch Almighty.
May the Truth of Balthar Birch guide you and destroy his enemies, myriad though they are. Amen.
If by some chance a person has suffered enough brain injuries to actually want to be my vassal, I'll note that Bishop's phrase, "Committed worship to Birch, the former God-General of Darkness is advised." is true enough, in that not following that advice will result in you becoming subjugation target number 1. So be prepared to fully accept without question my
May the Truth of Balthar Birch guide you and destroy his enemies, myriad though they are. Amen.
You would lose your army, waste your economy on trying to constantly revive said army, and probably cause that whole revolt risk thing we have now to happen. Being weaker overall, not just as a character, and thus increase chances of losing you holdings substantially. Not saying death wouldn't be a big kick in the teeth, far from it, but it isn't the only risk of the game.
Good question though.
Because you feel it difficult to tear away someones character is why it will be beneficial to actually kill them. Because it will actually mean something. Now I don't mean it should be instantly "whoops drop dead" you could go with CK2 kind of wounded -> maimed -> incapable -> dead, if you keep going out and fighting when maimed then you are probably going to get killed.
Wounded will heal after a year, maimed will never heal (essentially lost an arm) but at least you are alive
I'd actually placed in a similar system for the sequel to Landfallen. That should indicate I think a wounded system is most effective so if a character receives a wounded trait they could still do stuff but if that trait begins to stack they will die. Cause I mean a stab wound you can still function a little, missing three limbs with medieval era style medicine? Not so much. It would also give good reasons for you character to die because playing CKII I've had the "whoops drop dead" situation happen, and it leaves me stuck wondering how a seemingly health 40 year old died naturally when I just finished playing a 62 year old. Speaking of that character age is something we need to consider with the death system. Now Aedan with his magic sword guy and elves don't have to worry about it much, but other races do need to worry about death by age. There could be an average age thing for each race where GM rolls to see if a main player character dies of natural causes.
The stacking wounded system would provide that risk of death some players want, while still having a sort warning system. While I don't know how long the time frame for this game will be the age thing would be easy to implement as well. Like I said death system is a secondary mechanic so it can be changed with a certain degree of leisure. On a side note when it comes to players who simply want death system so they can murder other players' ICs for 'evviilll' (had discussion with two like that last night on IRC) there really is no compromise with who controls the death system. That actually makes a good point on how none of these methods that have been discusses; what I've suggested, BlackBishop's decreed; or you desired, will be good for all characters. Damn people having their own opinions am I right groogy?
p.s. good counter argument.
The stacking wounded system would provide that risk of death some players want, while still having a sort warning system. While I don't know how long the time frame for this game will be the age thing would be easy to implement as well. Like I said death system is a secondary mechanic so it can be changed with a certain degree of leisure. On a side note when it comes to players who simply want death system so they can murder other players' ICs for 'evviilll' (had discussion with two like that last night on IRC) there really is no compromise with who controls the death system. That actually makes a good point on how none of these methods that have been discusses; what I've suggested, BlackBishop's decreed; or you desired, will be good for all characters. Damn people having their own opinions am I right groogy?
p.s. good counter argument.
I am for players choosing their characters deaths;
First off, as previously mentioned by a few, especially Iisbroke, if you lose a war or a battle, you lose men, gold, castles and perhaps land even, which would lead to more and more losses of that kind most likely anyways. This would mean you would already be losing things that would greatly matter for your OOC stats and such, which you could intergrate into your IC very well, sure you can get wounded, maimed, or worse if you decide that to have happened.
Some players I know like to prepare IC's for a future date, for their characters, ahead of time, sure these ICs might change if something bad happens, but people will like to post these IC's, if a character then suddenly dies they might feel less ambitious to continue their work on IC's as they had already done work previously.
I would especially understand, for example that if Eylinn would suddenly die in an ambush for example that Greatslayer wouldn't really appreciate it, with all the time spent on fleshing out her backstory, and drawings of her and her lineage and the likes. Even I'd hate to SEE something like that happen.
Another factor would be, is every race as vurnerable as the other? Would a scrawny but magic elf survive more than a brute of an orc? There would have to be so much detail to it that it would only burden Bishop (I'd presume) more than needed.
Also, as mentioned by Iisbroke, there is a tight-knit community of people who like making joint IC's, I have been in a few myself and they are fun in my opinion, which leads me to the point of people wanting to IC with eachother with certain characters. I heard multiple people sometimes randomly just wanting to write IC's with eachother with certain characters. If these characters would however unexpectedly cease to be then, once again, it might ruin ICing for some.
But perhaps there is a middle way, if it wouldn't be too much work on Bishop, to let people personalize their preference. Ticking the box of; Fine with GM decided death. So the people that want decided deaths get it, leaving the others that are not interested in it out of it. I know this isn't the optimal solution, as it would seem unfair for some, but people get what they choose.
I am not saying the middle ground is the best solution, as some people somehow read out of this, I was just saying it was an extreme option if there is really not going to be any agreement upon the matter.
First off, as previously mentioned by a few, especially Iisbroke, if you lose a war or a battle, you lose men, gold, castles and perhaps land even, which would lead to more and more losses of that kind most likely anyways. This would mean you would already be losing things that would greatly matter for your OOC stats and such, which you could intergrate into your IC very well, sure you can get wounded, maimed, or worse if you decide that to have happened.
Some players I know like to prepare IC's for a future date, for their characters, ahead of time, sure these ICs might change if something bad happens, but people will like to post these IC's, if a character then suddenly dies they might feel less ambitious to continue their work on IC's as they had already done work previously.
I would especially understand, for example that if Eylinn would suddenly die in an ambush for example that Greatslayer wouldn't really appreciate it, with all the time spent on fleshing out her backstory, and drawings of her and her lineage and the likes. Even I'd hate to SEE something like that happen.
Another factor would be, is every race as vurnerable as the other? Would a scrawny but magic elf survive more than a brute of an orc? There would have to be so much detail to it that it would only burden Bishop (I'd presume) more than needed.
Also, as mentioned by Iisbroke, there is a tight-knit community of people who like making joint IC's, I have been in a few myself and they are fun in my opinion, which leads me to the point of people wanting to IC with eachother with certain characters. I heard multiple people sometimes randomly just wanting to write IC's with eachother with certain characters. If these characters would however unexpectedly cease to be then, once again, it might ruin ICing for some.
But perhaps there is a middle way, if it wouldn't be too much work on Bishop, to let people personalize their preference. Ticking the box of; Fine with GM decided death. So the people that want decided deaths get it, leaving the others that are not interested in it out of it. I know this isn't the optimal solution, as it would seem unfair for some, but people get what they choose.
I am not saying the middle ground is the best solution, as some people somehow read out of this, I was just saying it was an extreme option if there is really not going to be any agreement upon the matter.
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Birth of Vahamil Imperialism
The tribes of Çürüyen has been split apart for a long time rarely crossing path except for rare occasions. The Çürüyen did not have any perception of warfare and at most it boiled down to minor raids or conflicts between the tribes or the outlying cities along the waste. However everything changed with the Vahamil who was in the middle of their migrational period in what the settled societies refer to as the First Harvest in Year 1001.
The Vahamil tribe of this time was predominately led by Baba the father of Kılıç who is the current leader of the tribe and all the other tribes today. They were herding their Bisons from south to north as the warmth was returning to the northern lands that were more fertile than the southern deserts. The closest to a homeland the tribe has is the Vahamil Steppe which includes both flat grasslands in the north and desert in the south. Within it is also a temple that is highly regarded by the easterners as the "Light Basin". The Çürüyen could see in the distance of the west a massive army of pure darkness and corruption approaching their direction, this lone small tribe of only a few thousands would be no match for the Dark ones armies marching towards the Light Basin. They just did their best to stay out of the way and changed direction to eastward direction instead.
Being quick movers because of their nomadic life style they made head gain quite quickly. However as they started to make distance from the horde of the West they started approaching the twice in size army of the East marching to face the dark threat to their realm. The Çürüyen tribe of Vahamil was confused as they had no concept of warfare or armies and as such these enormous masses of people and monsters heading in the direction against each other was a mystery. The tribe moved miles away to the north where they would be safe. But the smoke and sound of terror that came from the battlefield did not escape them. This becomes known as the battle of the Vahamil Steppe's.
Chief Baba and the Elders do however learn from the experience, feeling they need to be prepared to avoid dangers the tribe starts to cycle scouts that run a distance away from the main group of the people in the tribe. The Çürüyen people were known of their running abilities and stamina, with the scouting network created by Baba could cover all of the Vahamil Steppe and even as far out as into the settled territories of Hroniden and Karmoth. A scout could stay away from the tribe for several months at a time and kept in touch with the main body through the use of their hunting ravens carrying messages. This actually gave the Vahamil an unexpected advantage against the other tribes giving them the ability to knowing where they were and were they would possibly be both protecting them from potential raids and also as we'll see later, giving them the opportunity of conquest. Now the Vahamil still have no concept of war or conquest for that matter and this doesn't change until the Battle of Azure's Ridge.
The Western armies and Eastern armies are fighting in the desert again but the Vahamil are not caught unaware of it this time and have moved away long before the forces close in to the battle. The difference however this time was that Chief Baba and a few males of the tribe stayed to observe the massacre that would commence in-front of their eyes. They saw terror of the Dark magic and thousand upon thousands of people dying as they fought it off. Baba is remembered to have described as he saw the extinction of several tribes, hordes of raiders lashing out at each other in a fit of rage. The view scared Baba and his closest men and it changed his and the tribes view on the entire world in a matter of hours. He saw how the Eastern army was at an imminent loss but how a part of their army stayed put as the rest routed and would eventually be destroyed, or so he thought. The closest concept the Çürüyen had to all of this was raiding, and when you met too tough resistance or inevitable defeat you would flee to avoid the loss. But before his eyes he saw warriors who defied all logic and fought against this much larger and much more terrifying enemy and eventually winning the entire battle.
After this observation the Vahamil tribe went through a vast amount of reformations. Baba adopted a symbol to represent his tribe inspired by the banners he had seen the armies wear with pride and he made every man of the tribe required to be a permanent "raider" of the tribe which meant besides their everyday duties of herding, production, foraging, hunting and reproduction they also had to train and refine skills related to combat. Even so he realized that the numbers of his tribe alone was not enough to mimic the enormous armies he had seen in the battle of Azure's Ridge. Using the previously established scout network Baba quickly found a rivaling tribe and tried to integrate it by force. This is the first occurrence and the first attempt of conquest by a nomadic tribe so far known and the rivaling tribe was not prepared for so many raiders to hit them at ounce and as such it was fairly bloodless. But when it became clear that Baba was not there with his raiders to just take loot, slaves and women but to actually subjugate the entire tribe a lot of blood was spilled. Luckily though it was only what could be seen as leading figures of the tribe that protested violently against the subjugation and they got executed for it. Baba and his men quickly discovered that the general populace was just happy that they would not lose their lives, be raped or made into slaves as such didn't complain in any aggressive manner when their leadership was killed off and swapped by men loyal to Baba.
However some did run off to other tribes and warned them and the news spread quickly of the Vahamil tribes outrages absorption of another tribe. It isn't until the second tribe is absorbed that a confederacy of all the Çürüyen tribes are formed to combat the growing and imperialistic Vahamil tribe. The numbers aren't really known but there were several dozens of tribes in this confederacy trying to somehow organize themselves to fight the growing power of the Vahamil tribe. But with Vahamil's way to integrate their conquered tribes the fighting force of the Vahamil grew with every victory and their fighting techniques became more and more honed as the years passed and with being a organized fighting force while the other tribes still relied on the old system of raiders they didn't have to utilize their entire tribe to conquer new tribes and as such they could split into several forces striking on several points all across the wastes and this is where we see the entry of the current leader of the tribes into the history, Kılıç. As the years has passed he has grown and it is guessed that he was about 16-17 years when he leads the first splinter party to forage resources for the main force but accidentally is caught by a united confederate force which he manages to defeat. It is with this victory he is deemed to be the only valid successor as leader of all the Çürüyen tribes years later.
It is also at this point that the Vahamil cruelty towards their perceived enemies starts to take form. Kılıç splinter force had captured several raiders from the confederate tribes in the previous engagement whom some of them were sons of the "nobility". With now what starts to look like two armies staring down at each other in the desert, Baba and Kılıç brings forth the prisoners in-front of the Vahamil soldiers with their limbs tied and completely naked, many of their fathers standing on the other side of the soon-to-be battlefield. A horrible show of rape ensues where some Vahamil soldiers, including Baba and Kılıç, starts to rape the prisoners before slitting their throat and then continuing to desecrate their lifeless bodies. This display of cruelty becomes the trade mark display of the tribe and several tribes exits the confederacy not wanting to risk the same faith.
However in the ensuing battle of that first act of cruelty sees Baba killed and Kılıç takes over his fathers role.