This gets more & more bizarre. If I remove Austria-Hungary from the war, then Germany attacks Belgium just fine (i.e. overruns the whole country in ca. 3 weeks). Why would Germany be more aggressive with no allies?
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Does germany has a "protect = { U11 }" or an order to send support to austria? Maybe thats the point. Germany is (like it really was) under huge pressure on all fronts.
I would suggest to try following things:
- raising the attack odds for germany to make it more agressive
- lowereing the max troup ratio on the belgium border to 1.2 - 1.5
Lets see what happens
I would suggest to try following things:
- raising the attack odds for germany to make it more agressive
- lowereing the max troup ratio on the belgium border to 1.2 - 1.5
Lets see what happens
Some weird AI bug, it happens rather frequently actually.
Remember how German AI in 1939/40 was refusing to attack Belgium if Germany was allied to Soviet Union? Similar thing here.
The most weird thing I find here actually is that the game apparently considers Austria-Hungary to be more powerful than Germany, this is the only reason why Germany is giving exp forces to A-H and not vice versa. (the most powerful member of the alliance is supposed to recieve and manage continental expeditionary forces, in theory)
Preventing Germany from sending expeditionary forces to A-H effectively shuts down the German AI completely. I don't know how to convince the game engine that Germany is more powerful than A-H, but if all fails, I'm afraid you might have to just make Germany lend its entire army to A-H and let the latter run the war basically.
Edit: maybe this has something to do with A-H being 'bigger' in size compared to Germany, in terms of provinces?
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Or hit has something to do with A-H being better situated (less enemies at the border in comparison to the own forces).
Nearly all neighbors concentrate their troops at the german border.
Nearly all neighbors concentrate their troops at the german border.
If Germany succeeds in capturing just 3 or 4 enemy provinces after the war commences, then it seems to get back to being the leader of the alliance from AI point of view.
Now I am actually interested in knowing - if two nations are allied, at war, and have a land connection with each other in the same theater of operations as the frontline - CAN the "weaker" one fight its own war separately from its ally, or is it required to submit to the big brother in form of expeditionary forces?
As an experiment, I modified standard 1936 scenario to have Italy start out allied to Britain, but refusing to send expeditionary forces to Britain. Result: Italy was unable to invade Ethiopia at all, the Italian troops just stood there at the border.
So my solution to this would be to have A-H AI for early August 1914 modified to account for German campaign in Belgium (and have Germany send 100% of its troops to A-H as expeditionary), then as German troops (under A-H command) capture few provinces in Belgium the situation should get back to normal and the German AI will automatically take control of the situation. However if the Entente troops manage to prevent the German capture of those provinces then I don't know what to do.
Now I am actually interested in knowing - if two nations are allied, at war, and have a land connection with each other in the same theater of operations as the frontline - CAN the "weaker" one fight its own war separately from its ally, or is it required to submit to the big brother in form of expeditionary forces?
As an experiment, I modified standard 1936 scenario to have Italy start out allied to Britain, but refusing to send expeditionary forces to Britain. Result: Italy was unable to invade Ethiopia at all, the Italian troops just stood there at the border.
So my solution to this would be to have A-H AI for early August 1914 modified to account for German campaign in Belgium (and have Germany send 100% of its troops to A-H as expeditionary), then as German troops (under A-H command) capture few provinces in Belgium the situation should get back to normal and the German AI will automatically take control of the situation. However if the Entente troops manage to prevent the German capture of those provinces then I don't know what to do.
Nice idea, but in fact, A-H (and in most cases Germany) is too weak. They loose most of their eastern territories against russia quickly. If we throuw all troops on the western front, russia may advances to quickly.
Of course I'm not suggesting that A-H should throw all, or any, of its troops on the western front - that should be unnecessary. Besides, Russia has a handicap on attacking A-H for the first few weeks, and those weeks should be more than enough for German troops to capture at least half of Belgium. After that the A-H troops will fight under German banner.
What I was thinking about was for the ai files to include something like this:
ger_war1914.ai
Code:
exp_force_ratio = 0.95
exp_force_ratios = { }
no_exp_forces_to = { }u11_bel.ai
Code:
max_front_ratio = 1.2
max_front_ratios = {
SER = 2.0
BEL = 10.0
LUX = 3.0
FRA = 1.2
RUS = 0.8
}
exp_force_ratio = 0.95
exp_force_ratios = { }
no_exp_forces_to = { }
front = {
recklessness = 2
distrib_vs_ai = even
distrib_vs_human = even
enemy_reinf_days = 6
reserve_prop = 0.0 #GER should take care of that
panic_ratio_vs_ai = 1.5
panic_ratio_vs_human = 1.0
base_attack_odds = 1.2
min_attack_odds = 1.0
max_attack_odds = 3.0
reinforce_odds = 1.0
withdraw_odds = 0.5
enemy_handicap = { SER = 28
RUS = 28
OTT = 7 }
passivity = { SER = 25
ITA = 80
MTN = 80
RUS = 80
BUL = 80
FRA = 80
BEL = 0
LUX = 0
}
}then after belgium is ovverun go back to normal A-H ai
As I have experienced during my several testruns for the ottoman AI, I've seen that the handycap of russia doesn't prevent it to conquer 1/2 of A-H.
Well handicap seems to work correctly in my version. And after it expires it is A-H that actually goes on the offensive.
Also, screw that idea with the A-H command, I found an easier solution - just give Germany 5 extra offmap provinces connected to Berlin. I just tested it - Germany now is in command of its own troops and goes on the offensive whenever it wishes to. A problem here though is that it rushes troops (not expeditionary forces, its own divisions) to defend A-H borders even if the A-H doesn't really need help, while it should be busy deploying much more troops to Belgium.
Also, screw that idea with the A-H command, I found an easier solution - just give Germany 5 extra offmap provinces connected to Berlin. I just tested it - Germany now is in command of its own troops and goes on the offensive whenever it wishes to. A problem here though is that it rushes troops (not expeditionary forces, its own divisions) to defend A-H borders even if the A-H doesn't really need help, while it should be busy deploying much more troops to Belgium.
kami888 said:
Well, I got the A-H command thing to work generally well, though it would require some rebalancing in terms of getting A-H to keep enough units on the Western Front (it tends to take a portion & send them eastwards). As for extra offmap provinces, how is that scripted?
Yeah, that's the problem with this thing. No matter how much scripting I tried A-H kept withdrawing troops for its own affairs, so I gave up on it and gave extra provinces to Germany. It all works fine now, there is still some balancing to be done but in general Germany seems to stealmate with the Entente on the western front near the historic trenchline even before the trench warfare event triggers.
I've also changed up the British AI to start sending lots of reinforcements to France immidiately after war begins. A little problem I encountered here is that the Brits keep deploying their troops far away from the front and then moving them to the front. It'd would be great if they could deploy them right to Dunkerque or something. But I don't think this is possible.
Also I'm having trouble keeping Ottomans and Serbia alive. The Brits and Austrians PWN them in the first few months no matter what.
I'll just email you the modified files if you wish.
kami888 said:
Interesting results with the extra provinces thing - hopefully that doesn't cause any unintended consequences down the road. Personally I'm not much concerned if Serbia gets steamrollered; as for the Ottomans, maybe v.Manstein's new Ottoman AIs will help.
kami888 said:
It probably makes the most sense to send them to Allenby, if he's going to be putting together the v0.4b patch.
I have playtested it several more times, and found that in most cases the frontline settles in 1915 to something like this:
The recent playtest had the following events happen:
-1914-
Germany overruns Belgium in 2 weeks
France invades German Belgium, gets kicked out eventually
Britain begins delivering troops to Britanny, France
See-saw battles on the western front
Russia begins the offensive against Germany and A-H. Germany loses Konigsberg.
Trench warfare triggers, it appears that the weastern front is stabilized.
Montenegro is annexed, Serbia is all but overrun - the remaining troops are somehow holding out in Macedonia.
-1915-
Germany moves some more troops eastward, reverses much of the Russian gains in A-H.
Ottoman Empire joins the war, immidiately stealmates with the British along the suez canal.
Germany attempts to capture Warsaw, fails.
Western front is re-mobilized. See-saw battles result in a minor German gains.
British land in Arabia, overrun Hejaz.
Italy joins the war (AI inactive, but can send some exp forces).
Within one month the British successfully land in Palestine, Kuwait, south Turkey, and Constantinople.
Bulgaria joins the war on Entente side (AI inactive, but can send some exp forces).
Japanese troops land in France.
With Bulgarian help Serbia re-emerges from its holdout in Macedonia and recaptures Belgrade.
Germany divers troops southward, fails to kick the Russians out of Poland.
-1916-
Austrian southern front is collapsing, Serbs are everywhere.
Russia begins a new offensive against A-H.
Russia overruns Ottoman Turkey. OTT is annexed by Britain.
Austrian southern front is brought under control by german reinforcements.
The entente forces on the western front have an absolute numerical superiority. If they happen to brake through the trenchline, Germany is dead.
If the Russians and serbs didn't get themselves encircled so many times, they would have won the war already.
Serbs make a stupid move, get wiped out, Serbia is annexed.
The entente forces in the west brake through at Mulhouse, make rapid gains before winter.
Russian forces enter Budapest.
Britain apparently recieves some kind of AI-switch, and decides to withdraw the entire BEF from France.
The Entente gains on in the west are reversed, the frontline is back where it was in 1915.
Russians are approaching Berlin
I stop playing at this point.
The recent playtest had the following events happen:
-1914-
Germany overruns Belgium in 2 weeks
France invades German Belgium, gets kicked out eventually
Britain begins delivering troops to Britanny, France
See-saw battles on the western front
Russia begins the offensive against Germany and A-H. Germany loses Konigsberg.
Trench warfare triggers, it appears that the weastern front is stabilized.
Montenegro is annexed, Serbia is all but overrun - the remaining troops are somehow holding out in Macedonia.
-1915-
Germany moves some more troops eastward, reverses much of the Russian gains in A-H.
Ottoman Empire joins the war, immidiately stealmates with the British along the suez canal.
Germany attempts to capture Warsaw, fails.
Western front is re-mobilized. See-saw battles result in a minor German gains.
British land in Arabia, overrun Hejaz.
Italy joins the war (AI inactive, but can send some exp forces).
Within one month the British successfully land in Palestine, Kuwait, south Turkey, and Constantinople.
Bulgaria joins the war on Entente side (AI inactive, but can send some exp forces).
Japanese troops land in France.
With Bulgarian help Serbia re-emerges from its holdout in Macedonia and recaptures Belgrade.
Germany divers troops southward, fails to kick the Russians out of Poland.
-1916-
Austrian southern front is collapsing, Serbs are everywhere.
Russia begins a new offensive against A-H.
Russia overruns Ottoman Turkey. OTT is annexed by Britain.
Austrian southern front is brought under control by german reinforcements.
The entente forces on the western front have an absolute numerical superiority. If they happen to brake through the trenchline, Germany is dead.
If the Russians and serbs didn't get themselves encircled so many times, they would have won the war already.
Serbs make a stupid move, get wiped out, Serbia is annexed.
The entente forces in the west brake through at Mulhouse, make rapid gains before winter.
Russian forces enter Budapest.
Britain apparently recieves some kind of AI-switch, and decides to withdraw the entire BEF from France.
The Entente gains on in the west are reversed, the frontline is back where it was in 1915.
Russians are approaching Berlin
I stop playing at this point.
Does this happened with my new ottoman AI? I realized that the ottoman success has much to do with the situation in central europe. If the germans are stopped quickly, england throws many troops on the suez front, which pushes the ottomans back to turkey. Furthermore, when the german eastern front falls, russia sends too much troops on the caucasus. The ottomans are just too weak to hold their territory if allied troops aren't caught in central europe.
@kami: Well, it's not surprising that both countries will loose in most cases since both enemies have more/higher developed troops.
@kami: Well, it's not surprising that both countries will loose in most cases since both enemies have more/higher developed troops.
The problem is not in the fact that they lose, but they lose too quickly. The Ottoman defeat causes the Central Powers to collapse too early, before, let's say, Russian Revolution can trigger.
The Ottomans were using the default AI in that playtest, the one that comes with 0.4 download. I subsequently wrote and AI for the Ottomans which made them garrison the beaches a little more. This prevented crazy British amphibious landings all over the place, but still, when Italy joined the war, the Entente troops immidiately overwhelmed the Ottomans and crossed the Suez, and reached Ankara within just several months.
The Ottomans simply don't have enough troops to deal with all the stuff that gets thrown at them.
The Ottomans were using the default AI in that playtest, the one that comes with 0.4 download. I subsequently wrote and AI for the Ottomans which made them garrison the beaches a little more. This prevented crazy British amphibious landings all over the place, but still, when Italy joined the war, the Entente troops immidiately overwhelmed the Ottomans and crossed the Suez, and reached Ankara within just several months.
The Ottomans simply don't have enough troops to deal with all the stuff that gets thrown at them.
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Oh, I released an ottoman AI which will help them hold their front. This AI is not included in the 0.4 version, but will be included in the upcoming version.
I dont want to interrupt, but I have an AI-question about this mod. In vanilla HOI2 I usually turn off the computers ability to give over control of there troops to me in "HOI2\AI\ai_file_doc.txt" simply by lowering the "exp_force_ratio"-number. But as there is no such file in the 1914 mod I figured that is not possible?
I've played the 1897-scenario as sweden, and joined in whit germany when offered Finland. But a month later both germany and A-H gives me control of there armed forces - I figured they gives me 75% of em, as thats the standard value of the "exp_force_ratio". And thats kind of annoying.
I've played the 1897-scenario as sweden, and joined in whit germany when offered Finland. But a month later both germany and A-H gives me control of there armed forces - I figured they gives me 75% of em, as thats the standard value of the "exp_force_ratio". And thats kind of annoying.
Changes in the ai_file_doc.txt do not change anything (in HoI2 and 1914) because its just a documentation how to write AI files. Its never used by the game, so we left out this file in the 1914 distribution.
I made some digging around, and checked out the .ai-files. Do I have to change the exp_force in all the files that has "ger" and "u11" on it? I tried adding SWE to the list of whith not to send to, but no effect.
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A note regarding the AI I have distributed - I have put the files in the 'DD' part of the download. If someone uses HOI II instead of DD, then it would be useful if they tested the AI to see whether they could work with both versions of the game instead of just DD.