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Greebo

Second Lieutenant
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Apr 7, 2002
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1) Does Algiers ever actually form? I'm asking because I've yet to see it :)

2) Could we please make it possible for a human player to move from Rhodes to Malta without...well...dying? Or is that possible already?
 
I so need to do re-do Algiers an its revolt, because Tunisia seems way to strong for its reovlt risk, so I might need to add extra revolts. I'll look into it. It does consistently form when Morocco does the odd thing of attacking Tlemcen, as its provinces always revolt away...:eek:

I thought there was an event giving the Knights, Malta, but I'm not sure.
 
Originally posted by Garbon
I thought there was an event giving the Knights, Malta, but I'm not sure.

There isn't one giving them Malta, but there's one that moves them to it. In my version of EEP, if the Knights own Malta (owning Rhodes is assumed), then they are given the option to either move there and secede Rhodes to the Turks, or stay in Rhodes.

The tricky part is that there are only two ways for the Knights to get Malta, conquest (likely from Aragon, Castille, or Spain, which is neither easy nor terribly historical), or defection (it can defect to them, despite the distance). Needless to say, this has only happened in a few of my games.

EDIT: Here's the actual event:

#Order moves to Malta#
event = {
id = 24031
random = no
country = KNI
trigger = { owned = { province = 819 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 481 data = -1 }
exists = TUR
}
name = "EVENTNAME24031"
desc = "EVENTHIST3540"
style = 2
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1419 }
offset = 2
deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1820 }

action_a ={
name = "ACTIONNAME24031A"
command = { type = capital which = 819 }
command = { type = secedeprovince which = TUR value = 481 }
command = { type = stability value = 2 }
command = { type = inf which = 819 value = 3000 }
command = { type = removecore which = 481 }
command = { type = addcore which = 819 }
command = { type = add_countryculture which = maltese }
command = { type = remove_countryculture which = greek }
}
action_b ={
name = "ACTIONNAME24031B"
command = { type = capital which = 819 }
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -150 }
command = { type = stability value = -1 }
command = { type = removecore which = 481 }
}
action_c ={
name = "ACTIONNAME24031C"
command = { type = relation which = TUR value = -450 }
command = { type = removecore which = 481 }
}
}
 
Great to hear that about Algiers, Garbon :D

Regarding the Knigts - there seem to be two ways for them to get Malta: either the one scripted above, or when they get annexed - in which case they re-emerge as spanish/aragonian vassals on Malta. I'm asking whether we could modify the first option, which is kind of silly (the Knights didn't wage war on Spain to get Malta. Neither did it revolt and ask them for protection or whatnot).

I think the perfect solution would be for an event that gives Malta to the Knights to trigger when they lose control of Rhodes. Except that sometimes the AI is lightning-quick and might actually annex you before the event gets triggered, I don't know whether that can be avoided. And even then it would be somewhat complicated, like an instant event for the Knights (to stop the game) that triggers an event for Spain, in which she can grant them the island, which in turn triggers an event for the knights to move their capital there and secede Rhodes to the Turks. Dunno what to do if it's not the Turks that kick their butt.

Now I'm convinced that's a terrible solution. Could we please just graft an event that gives the Knights an option to move to Malta voluntairly? I think that was how the original event worked, except it didn't move the capital there (which was kind of silly in its own right).

I have a selfish reason for that - I've never ever seen my events for the Knights in action, because it's damn tough to wrest Malta from Spain when you're a 1-island minor :)
 
But then why, would Spain/Aragon want to give the Knights, Malta? I mean if they were prospering on Rhodes why would Spain just give up some land. (I know Spain gave them Tripoli, but thats just because Charles/Carlos didn't want to have to garrison the territory. If I recall correctly, the Knights didn't even want it, so thats not exactly the same.)

I will kludge together a fix for Algiers this weekend. No point in having that new nice monarch list, if its just going to waste. ;)
 
The Knights case

Why would Aragon give up the island - no idea

As for Spain - perhaps for the historical reasons: to have a capable, professional and cost-free force defending Sicily from raids originating from the coast of Northern Africa. Malta had a great strategic location, but at the time it was passed to the Knights the it was nearly devoid of any fortifications (there was something of a makeshift castle that was in a state of horrible disrepair), the island was made into a stronghold by the Knights, with no finnancial support from Spain.

Furthermore Spain might want the Knights to relocate, because their resources were more difficult to tap when they were on Rhodes (a classical case of overextension), in the eastern Mediterranean, which - apart from Cyprus - was all but lost to the Christian nations. Focusing on the central region seems more reasonable strategy-wise.

It is in Spain's best interest to place the Knights on Malta. They're a bonus while on Rhodes, something to bother the Turks with. On Malta they turn into an asset. Of course the Knights might not want to move to Malta if they're doing great on Rhodes. That's why there could be a choice for Spain (offer Malta or not) and a choice for the Knights (accept or not). I think that sounds reasonable :)
 
I agree completely. I misread your last post and thought you were saying it was silly to have the Knights relocate. :eek: I think what you propose is more than reasonable and should be implemented.

On helping Algiers, I've come up with a few solutions. First, if Tunisia goes with the historical route in Uthman's death it will cede Al-Djazair to Tlemcen as that city is vital to Algiers forming (at least as it is currently scripted). Then, I'm adding some random events that if any of Tlemcen's core provinces are rebel controlled for 30 days or so and not owned by Tlemcen, then the current owner is forced to cede them to Tlemcen as a penalty for not having cleared up its rebellion. These tend to work out nicely as I've been trying them in Central Asia with my Timurid setup, and them seem to add a little randomness to defections, as you never know if this is going to be the time you lose your province quickly. Decreases that 'gameyness' feeling, I like to think. :cool:

On the Morocco front, I added some province revolt risks to the Fate of Morocco events and decreased the strength of the overall revolt risk. 15 is just too much!!! :eek: I'm also fixing that event that gives Morocco a CoT by giving it a description. ;) It never got one, as it was one of those that got left in the file. I had never planned to release it until removecot was in an offical patch, but oh well. :D

The overall solution to fixing Algiers and increasing its pop up rate, is fixing the dynamics between Morocco, Tlemcen, and Tunisia, but that involves a lot of testing and so I'll have to put that off for a bit.