American AAR : AI Experiments In HoI3

[Bullfilter]

That looked like a good raid on Saipan. And that 1st Battleship Fleet is starting to look a lot stronger - even so, they'd still be better off not venturing quite so far into the Dragon's Den again until they have at least another carrier in support. The AI may have different ideas though once it gets them back again.

 

[stnylan]

Saipan looks to be a most unhappy place to be a ship, right now.

 

[markkur]

Take no offence but make sure of two things, that you have no orders in place for troops or ships and make sure you clicked off A.I. command. Those little things, I sometimes overlook and then find what you did.

 

[Eurasia]

Take no offence but make sure of two things, that you have no orders in place for troops or ships and make sure you clicked off A.I. command. Those little things, I sometimes overlook and then find what you did.

No offence. I did all that and more. The Fleet even refused to leave port. I think it is so large it can't carry enough supplies and fuel to travel anywhere. Which makes no sense. I have already been warned that this might be a glitch in the savefile.

 

[Eurasia]

AI Experiments In HoI3
Chapter Eighteen : Zeros

The "Steel " Fleet
​

The plan was simple. I could not seem to split Fleets. But I could merge. So I turned to the Damaged Destroyers on their way to Honolulu and split them into individual ship units.

Yes. THEY can split. Go figure. But my idea was they would go to LA and I would merge them, one at a time, with the massive Marine Fleet and funnel a third of all the ships to each Destroyer. And end up with three transport fleets.(1)

I also noticed some good news. Our list of units begging for supplies was much shorter now. Mostly units on Christmas Island. For some reason I found that funny. Not sure why.

Then bad news. Our Naval Bombers were attacking Saipan again. You would say that is good news?

The IJN sent three Wings of Zeros to protect their island. Yes, that's bad news.

And they followed the Bombers back and bounced on them again four hours later.

By the time the USN Patrol Bomb. Group 1 landed on Guam they were hurting. Mostly Organization but they had also lost 71 Bombers! Which was about 17.75 % of their total Strength. Bad. Very, very bad.

So we close this chapter with the IJN starting to smart up and me a few chapters from a horrible, horrible surprise. See Author's Note Below.

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Author's Note:

1. I was so innocent at the start of this game session. It will take me to the end of this game session to realize what the REAL problem is. The 1st Marine (Army) AI had combined ALL their fleets into one FLEET. The 1st Army AI kind of did the same thing as they should have four Fleets and now have TWO.

But neither of them have the function switched on that allows them to change their Order Of Battle/Chain-Of-Command. In other words they SHOULD not be able to do that BUT they do. On the other hand they have both left their Divisions and Aircraft Groups alone. While the Navy Theater has done nothing to its Order Of Battle/Chain-Of-Command. It has left its organizational structure along.

So for the next few chapters let us watch me slowly try to solve one problem without realizing what the REAL problem is. That the Army Level AIs can do whatever they want with the Naval Units. Surprise!

 

[roverS3]

Too bad the Japanese brought in Fighters to spoil the party in Saipan...

1. I was so innocent at the start of this game session. It will take me to the end of this game session to realize what the REAL problem is. The 1st Marine (Army) AI had combined ALL their fleets into one FLEET. The 1st Army AI kind of did the same thing as they should have four Fleets and now have TWO.

But neither of them have the function switched on that allows them to change their Order Of Battle/Chain-Of-Command. In other words they SHOULD not be able to do that BUT they do. On the other hand they have both left their Divisions and Aircraft Groups alone. While the Navy Theater has done nothing to its Order Of Battle/Chain-Of-Command. It has left its organizational structure along.

So for the next few chapters let us watch me slowly try to solve one problem without realizing what the REAL problem is. That the Army Level AIs can do whatever they want with the Naval Units. Surprise!

Oh boy...
Looking forward to whatever 'solution', or should I say 'fix', you come up with to make the AI behave and not bunch all it's fleets together... That is quite strange, as I have rarely, if ever seen AI doomstack fleets, though the largest AI fleets I've ever seen in game were USN fleets close to the 30 unit mark...maybe it's a USAI thing.

 

[Eurasia]

Too bad the Japanese brought in Fighters to spoil the party in Saipan...
Oh boy...
Looking forward to whatever 'solution', or should I say 'fix', you come up with to make the AI behave and not bunch all it's fleets together... That is quite strange, as I have rarely, if ever seen AI doomstack fleets, though the largest AI fleets I've ever seen in game were USN fleets close to the 30 unit mark...maybe it's a USAI thing.

Not happy to see the Zeros but they were going to show up sooner or later.

* One solution is to give the Army AIs the only transports with just enough warships and carriers to act as escorts while handing all other ships to the Navy.

* OR turning on the AIs on Theater level. But that kind of defeats the whole idea of the experiment.

* OR...wait and see what they do with their massive fleets. And hope the Navy can keep the IJN in check. Which does mean handing over more Fleets and aircraft to the Navy then I planned.

 

[Bullfilter]

‘Interesting’ (used euphemistically) in-game AI fleet issues there ... unless it’s just a random glitch, your experiment may have tripped a switch none of us knows is there ... good luck with that one!

I actually think those Zeroes appearing is bad news game-wise but excellent news re the enemy AI actually ‘thinking’ a little bit for itself! After all, usually the poor things need a bit of help against us smart humans. So if the Japanese one can do that, maybe the US one (if given the circumstances) could do something similar?

 

[Eurasia]

Just a few hints about future chapters. American Cavalry Occupy Iceland! Action In Guam And Eniwetok!

By the way Iceland is a very nice place, my brother and his two sons visited it for a week and they came back with nothing but praise.

 

[stnylan]

Well, it appears Yamamoto had a plan after all.

 

[Eurasia]

AI Experiments In HoI3
Chapter Nineteen : The Marines Do Something?!?!

Marines, Paris Island, 1941​

By the 5th of December the two "Damaged" Destroyer Divisions reach Honolulu and I realize that sending them on is silly. Why send two reduced units when I can send two perfectly good naval units? So I had them wait in the port for the Reserve Fleet to show up.

The next day a few things happened. The Navy sank a transport and two escorts to Eniwetok which was great. The less supplies and fuel the got island than the easier it would be for the 1st Marine (Army) to take it.

And Saudi Arabia joined the Axis. No doubt because Turkey was leaning towards the Comintern or something like that. Either way I blame Bullfilter.

The Navy reported another sinking of a Japanese cargo ship. I wondered how much damage the Navy could do to the convoy system of Japan within the next few years.

By the 8th the Navy reported sinking three more transports and another escort.

By 17:00 (5:00 PM) of the 8th the Reserve Fleet arrived in Honolulu. At that point I added the two Destroyer Divisions to the Fleet and split off two Heavy Cruisers. Who were sent off to LA to meet the Marine Transport Fleet.

At the same time the Reserve Fleet was ordered to San Diego. I didn't want it fighting over resources with the other fleets in LA.

Later that day the Navy reported the loss of another transport sunk by the Germans. More beans for Day Jones.

On the 9th I checked on the 1st Armored Division. They were just starting the process of being turned into Medium Tanks. Hint for future players. Building a brand new Division of, let us say, Mountain Troops costs a lot more than turning Regular Infantry into Mountain Troops. So if you have something outdated that can be upgraded - it is always cheaper to upgrade. I learned that from a posting where somebody did all the math.

After that I got another report from the Navy. Seems the Germans REALLY hated Boston's Baked Beans.

At this point I checked on the USN Patrol Bomb. Group 1 based on Guam. It had replaced all the bombers but the last 35 planes. But it was still working on its Organization. It took a beating from those Zeros.

In the morning of the next day, on the 10th, I received two reports from the Navy. We managed to sink a Japanese transport and escort.

On the other hand the Italians sunk two of our transports heading to Izmir. I didn't know we had trade with Turkey.

At 18:00 (6:00 PM) my Cruisers were about to enter the port of LA when the 1st Marine (Army) AI decided to send the 3rd Marine Transport Fleet to Wake Island with two Marine Divisions.

So I sent the Cruisers to follow it. Why was it sending Marines to Wake Island?

And then it hit me. Where were the other fleets? Oh MY GOD. The AI had combined all the Marine Theater fleets into one VERY massive fleet.

So, join me next time where we see what the 1st Marine (Army) AI is up to and what my own reactions are.

 

[roverS3]

Building a brand new Division of, let us say, Mountain Troops costs a lot more than turning Regular Infantry into Mountain Troops. So if you have something outdated that can be upgraded - it is always cheaper to upgrade. I learned that from a posting where somebody did all the math.

Yep, it's cheaper to upgrade, this leads to some gamey exploits. i.e. You want a bunch of new Mechanised , you could train them straight up, but if you can spare the time, it's cheaper to first train Mot, and then upgrade to Mech... the only thing with upgrades is that you can't know the cost up front, and once you start the upgrade you can't remove the update from the queue without actually deleting the unit all together. I like the idea of upgrading existing units, but the implementation is somewhat troublesome, upgrades are often a bit too cheap, and there is no way to tell the cost of the upgrade upfront, save for figuring out the formula, taking into account all variables and calculating it yourself, though it is usually quite a bit cheaper than training a unit from scratch. Or you could save, put the upgrade in the queue, and if you don't like it reload from the save...

Personally, I do use upgrades, but I only use them if they make sense, i.e. no cheating and building Mot specifically to upgrade it immediately to Mech for example. You can go really far with this, you can train Cav, and then progressively upgrade it step by step to H Arm, it will take longer, but overall it'll cost less than training H Arm directly, especially if you do it en masse. In this case, it seems perfectly justified. Motorising pre-existing Infantry seems like a logical thing to do, especially if you want to save on manpower or don't need the Infantry anyway. During wartime, the time you're short the unit that is upgrading makes the cost-benefit of upgrading a bit more equal too, but not by much.

On another note, good that the AI is moving Marines to where they could be useful. Those strange fleets do still worry me though.

 

[markkur]

And then it hit me. Where were the other fleets? Oh MY GOD. The AI had combined all the Marine Theater fleets into one VERY massive fleet.

 

[Wraith11B]

The British AI did that at one point in one of my games. What was left of the Royal Navy was bundled up and shipped around the world to deal with the Japanese, which they tried to take advantage of but were mostly unable to actually cause too much damage (probably because everything was taking hits versus only a few vessels.

 

[Bullfilter]

Hah! The only thing I 'respectfully disagree' with is taking the rap for Saudi Arabia!! And as you know, the only thing to do with isolated Axis minors like that is to crush them. How about a bit of Desert Storm there? Chance to test the AI out on an amphibious landing.

And the US AI seems to be a bit obsessed with doom stacks - I wonder what is causing it?

 

[stnylan]

Marines going to do what marines are doing to do ... sometimes it is best just to step aside and let them get on with it

 

[Eurasia]

AI Experiments In HoI3
Chapter Twenty : Iceland Belongs To Us!

Japanese Imperial Marines​

We start this chapter with me checking the overall picture of what my AIs were up to. First I noticed that the East Coast Army Theater had combined its all four fleets into two larger ones. But it seemed to use some kind of logic. For example the 1st Army Escort Fleet had only warships.

While the 1st Army Transport had all the Sea Transports. And all the warships assigned to the old Transport Fleets whose job was to act as protection had also been joined into the 1st Army Transport.

By the way the Army Transport Fleet was returning from transporting 1st Cavalry Division to Iceland. Isn't it UK territory now? Why are we wasting troops here?

I also noticed that the Navy had moved the One-Brigade Garrison in Alaska to the tip of the chain of islands off the state's coast. To the Attu Island. Which only had a port in the middle of nowhere. So I am not sure if the Japanese would even try to invade it.

On the 11th December Japanese CAGs, 6 Wings, started to carry out Ground Attacks on the defenders of Guam.

Of course you understand what this means. You don't bomb infantry unless you plan to invade. 14 Garrison troops died to the attack.

As I waited for the next attack on Guam I received a report that the Navy sank a Japanese transports and two escorts.

By 1:00 (1:00 AM) on the 12th we had another Ground Attack on Guam. I guess there was, at least, three Japanese carriers out there. I wonder if my Navy planned to do anything about that?

Before the Ground Attack had even finished the Japanese Marines hit the beaches. The Ground Attack killed 73 American soldiers even while the Japanese engaged the defenders.

So the Japanese finally got sick of my Naval Bombers and decided to take the island by tying up who knows how many ships and resources to take Guam.

And they did hate the Bombers. Because as the Navy's Bombers tried to escape to Wake Island the Zeros from Saipan ambushed them.

But this time the Zeros did not do so well. The Bombers were not focused on a mission and were able to put up a fight. And win.

The USN Patrol Bomb. Group 1 made it to Wake Island having lost 42 Bombers. And a lot of Organization. But they made it.

So we end this chapter with the Japanese invading the Navy Theater's territory of Guam.

 

[roverS3]

Well, those Army Fleets are actually decent. That 'Warship Fleet' should be really powerful, it remains within the total hull limit, and it has both Carriers, and fast firepower in the form of Heavy Cruisers. That fleet isn't too large to be practical neither too slow to force engagements, nor is it really lacking in escorts, it will destroy most of what it encounters without blinking. Larger SAG may sink a Cruiser or two, but on the whole it's a really solid fleet, concentrating a lot of firepower, and Air Power, in a large, but neither slow, nor unwieldy fleet.
The transport fleet is slightly on the large side, but the AI gave them escorts, and as a bonus most of those are Light Cruisers, which are more durable and have some Shore Bombardment capability.
The AI even put sufficiently senior leaders in charge of them. I'd leave this one alone, and see what the AI does with them.
Now I want to see what Marine HQ cooked up... I have a feeling it may be slightly more erratic...

 

[stnylan]

So can the Marines hold out? That will be interesting to see.

 

[Eurasia]

AI Experiments In HoI3
Chapter Twenty-One : The Battle For Guam

Here Comes The IJN!​

Much of this chapter will be me announcing Ground Attacks on Guam. So you may wish to skip it if Ground Attack after Ground Attack bores you. The next Ground Attack was launched at 7:00 (7:00 AM) on the 12th. At this point the Garrison was also engaged with the Imperial Japanese Marines.

Major General Sheetz was known for his Defensive Doctrine and this meant the Americans had a superior leader. The Japanese Navy had failed to bring any Battleships or Cruisers to the invasion so there was no off-shore bombardment to worry about. Just the CAGs. Which to be honest were bad enough.

Around 9:00 (9:00 AM) I received a report that the Germans had sunk another two transports and a escort. I already had many transports and escorts in the building list but I realized I might have to add more.

The Ground Attack ended at 10:00 (10:00 AM) and resulted in the deaths of 28 soldiers. The next Ground Attack happened at 13:00 (1:00 PM). That worried me because that seemed like a somewhat speedy turn-around time. This attack resulted in the deaths of another 28 soldiers.

At this point the Reserve Fleet had made it to San Diego where it would be safe and the Destroyer Divisions could get the reinforcements and supplies they needed. And the Reserve Fleet could go back to being a Reserve Fleet.

It was given priority to speed up the process a tad. Now we go back to Guam where I will slightly compress time. There were three more Ground Attacks in a row, starting at 1:00 (1:00 AM) in the morning of the 13th and ending at 16:00 (4:00 PM) on the same day. A total of 152 American soldiers were killed by the three Ground Attacks.

At 22:00 (10:00 PM) a second Divisions of Imperial Japanese Marines started to storm the beaches. As of now they were still in their landing craft but soon they would be in the battle itself.

On the 14th of December by 1:00 (1:00 AM) another wave of Ground Attacks were launched as the second Division joined the battle for the beaches. Two of the Ground Attacks caused the death of 91 American soldiers.

Before the report of those killed by the last Ground Attack appeared I decided to check on the 3rd Marine Transport Fleet. It was approaching Wake Island and I wanted to focus more on it then Guam.

So join us next time where I have to split up my focus between the Invasion of Guam and what the Marines are planning to do.