An Argument for Beta Israel(Semien) Independence in 1444

[Aelia]

I'd like to argue that Beta Israel should be independent at game start, I'll use mainly those sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Israel#Political_independence_.284th_century_.E2.80.93_1632.29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Semien

and the Hebrew one which goes further into details:

https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/תולדות_ביתא_ישראל:_1270–1529#.D7.94.D7.A7.D7.99.D7.A1.D7.A8_.D7.93.D7.95.D7.95.D7.99.D7.AA_.D7.94.D7.A8.D7.90.D7.A9.D7.95.D7.9F_.D7.95.D7.99.D7.95.D7.A8.D7.A9.D7.95

Don't think I need to do much explaining considering the Era is explicity called
"Political independence (4th century – 1632)" but I'll anyways:

In 1444, the Semien Kingdom was practically sovereign. It had a king, it had an army and it was actively fighting a war against the Ethiopian Empire under Yeshaq, sometimes invading foreign territory outside of Lake Tana and the mountains of Semien. The Jews lost an important battle at Weger which resulted in the loss of their main source of income, the fertile farmlands and they were pushed back to the mountains but they didn't stop fighting nor did the Kingdom of Semien cease to exist, that would happen only 200 years later. By 1450 the Jews managed to annex back all the territories they lost to Emperor Yeshaq. Only in 1462 the Ethiopian Empire was able to defeat them and even then he didn't manage to fully incoporate all their lands. Only in 1642 in the reign of Emperor Susenyos the Kingdom was finally annexed and defeated for good.

Also, here a translation of the introduction of the page titled "The Chronoicles of Beta Israel" in Hebrew Wikipedia:
"The years 1270-1529 are known as the "Survival Era". This era begun with the Solomonid dynasty ascension to the throne and the overthrow of the Zagwa Dynasty. The overthrow of the Zagwa was ominous for the people of Beta Israel, but they refrained from intervening. Afterwards, after the strengthening of Ethiopia (The empire), it fought a war of extermination against the Jews. Despite all of that, the Jews managed to keep their independence in the mountains of Semien and around Lake Tana. This era [Of Survival] ended in the invasion of Adal Sultanate to Ethiopia, signifying the start of the "Defeat Era"[1529-1630], in which the Jews were once aside the Muslims and once aside the Christians."

Another relevant part in this page is Eliyahu of Ferrara letter from 1435, it reads like this: Beta Israel is an independent kingdom ruled by ministers and kings. It has an army with which it fights the Axumites [Refering to the non-Jewish Ethiopians] he even writes that the Jews "are making fun of Christianity" and then he goes on to describe the unique language they use which he hasn't heard before.

 

[LinusLinothorax]

Would be interesting to hear what @LinusLinothorax would have to say about this (even if I suspect his judgement over vanilla will be as harsh as ever in 1.19 ).

I became increasingly harsh because I had the feeling that all the research and threads I made were for nothing. But that the region is still worked on is a good thing, and the addition of Ennarea was important and pleases me. After all, I wrote an entire Wikipedia article about it just so that it can get added to this game.

Concerning the situation of Beta Israel I am honetly not that sure. I once spoke with some expert in Ethiopian studies and he assured me that Beta Israel was not independent anymore in 1444 AD and personally, I would consider it very unlikely to be such as well, especially not during the reign of such a strong personality like Zara Yaqob. It was probably absorbed into the empire just like all the other archaic Ethiopian kingdoms of the north (Damot, Gojjam). I also have a map somewhere about 14th and 15th century Ethiopia, and IIRC it doesn't show Beta Israel independent as well. I will probably look into this matter more throughly later.

 

[Trin Tragula]

I will probably look into this matter more throughly later.

Appreciate it

 

[Krebsig]

I'd like to see them as a vassal personally. Gives us a chance to play a Jewish nation and wouldn't be totally unhistorical. But the vassal swarm might be hard on Adal, so have to take that into consideration also.

How about having them as a vassal, but with high liberty desire?

 

[Arser]

Even though from my sources Beta Israel was independant, I think that even if you think that it wasn't then it still should be for flavor reasons. If history is ambiguous, why not include it for the uniqueness factor? It might have a potential to be a little Byzantium from the challenge perspective.

 

[LinusLinothorax]

Ok, I just visited my library for, believe it or not, 12 hours. 2 good and 2 bad news.

First bad news: There was no Kingdom of Semien in 1444. There was no centralized Jewish political entity at all at that date.

First good news: There was a rebeliion at the startdate, spanning Semien and Sallamt (The region northwest of Tekeze river), apart of Dembeya the two most important Jewish provinces of that time. Historically the rebellion was quite long-lasting and wasn't crushed until the 1470's, just to rise again for several decades.

Second good news: Over the course of the 16th century the Beta Israel managed to build some kind of political entity one could call a "Kingdom". It even had its own ruling family, the Gideons.

Second bad news: It was never independent, but always remained tributary to the Empire. There were several revolts, but that doesn't mean that they didn't occured in the other "Kingdoms" of the Empire as well. I would try to compare the level of Semiens autonomy to those of the other vasall kingdoms. If it is comparable high I would make it an own tag from around 1520 onwards, though as a vasall. If not I would still include it, but only to be used when the rebellions at the start date succeed.

Source:
Steven Kaplan: "The Beta Israel: Falasha in Ethiopia: From Earliest Times to the Twentieth Century"


Btw,, some off topic info:

1) Don't fired EU4 up for a while so I don't know the current state, but historically, Medri Bahri was a vasall of the Empire.
2) The capital of Zara Yaqob was at Debra Berhan, so you don't have to use Gondar anymore.
3) Just noticed the flag of Ennarea, which is basicaly just a golden cross on green background. I can offer something better:

 

[Timewalker102]

So, looking at what @LinuxLinothorax said, why not make them start with a very small rebellion (a la Gotland)?

 

[Trin Tragula]

Sounds to me like the best solution for 1444 would be to have separatist rebels be a thing in the provinces where Semien has cores.

As for capital: Are you sure Debre Berhan was already a thing in 1444? While we do have a capital province in 1444 that is due to limitations of the game engine. It is my impression the Ethiopian government was still quite "mobile" in 1444. The way we have it now is you get an event about the itinerant nature of the capital shortl after start and have the option to settle in Debre Berhan instead. It'd be a shame to lose the flavor of the event

Thank you for looking into this and for finding the information about the flag!

 

[Arser]

First good news: There was a rebeliion at the startdate, spanning Semien and Sallamt (The region northwest of Tekeze river), apart of Dembeya the two most important Jewish provinces of that time. Historically the rebellion was quite long-lasting and wasn't crushed until the 1470's, just to rise again for several decades.

Is it comparable to the Skanderbeg rebellion in terms of autonomy?

 

[LinusLinothorax]

Sounds to me like the best solution for 1444 would be to have separatist rebels be a thing in the provinces where Semien has cores.

Jup, sounds good, though I would call the tag "Beta Israel". In the 15th century the Ethiopian Jews were not restricted to Semien after all, but also lived in Sallamt and Dembeya (Northern Gondar province). "Beta Israel" would therefore represent the united kingdom of all Jewish Ethiopians.

As for capital: Are you sure Debre Berhan was already a thing in 1444? While we do have a capital province in 1444 that is due to limitations of the game engine. It is my impression the Ethiopian government was still quite "mobile" in 1444. The way we have it now is you get an event about the itinerant nature of the capital shortl after start and have the option to settle in Debre Berhan instead. It'd be a shame to lose the flavor of the event

Yes, after the fall of the Zagwe the Ethiopian monarchs and their courts always travelled through their kingdom due to the myriads of militant activities. However, they still had residences where they would live during the rare peace times.

Is it comparable to the Skanderbeg rebellion in terms of autonomy?

Well, while rebelling it was of course more or less independent, though it often comploted with other parties, like usurpators to the Ethiopian throne.

 

[Arser]

Well, while rebelling it was of course more or less independent, though it often comploted with other parties, like usurpators to the Ethiopian throne.

Then why not make it an independent tag? Albania is independent, after all.

 

[Trin Tragula]

Many places online (which granted aren't really the best of sources ) couple debre Berhan with the light of Halley's Comet in the 1450s. I'm fully ready to accept that as incorrect but I'd love to se a reference with a year in it if it's possible
I believe the original reference material for the Ethiopian events was largely unescos old "history of Africa" but I'm not sure the year actually came from there.

 

[LinusLinothorax]

Then why not make it an independent tag? Albania is independent, after all.

Albania is a tag because it was independent at the startdate, it lasted for 20 years and had a proper political organization. All things which the Beta Israel hadn't during the 15th century. Beta Israel could be a tag for the 1520-1620 startdates though, at least if we can find out how autonomous it was during the peace times. The autonomy during the war times doesn't really count, since there were also many other provinces who revolted during our timeframe. If we would give Beta Israel a tag just because it was autonomous during the rebellion phases then we also must give all the other Ethiopian provinces own tags.

Many places online (which granted aren't really the best of sources ) couple debre Berhan with the light of Halley's Comet in the 1450s.

Mhm yeah, that could be. The book I got the scan from didn't mention any date. Also no clue if we know about any residences before Debre Berhan. In the end it's probably still a better choice than Gondar though.

 

[Aelia]

Albania is a tag because it was independent at the startdate, it lasted for 20 years and had a proper political organization. All things which the Beta Israel hadn't during the 15th century. Beta Israel could be a tag for the 1520-1620 startdates though, at least if we can find out how autonomous it was during the peace times. The autonomy during the war times doesn't really count, since there were also many other provinces who revolted during our timeframe. If we would give Beta Israel a tag just because it was autonomous during the rebellion phases then we also must give all the other Ethiopian provinces own tags.


Mhm yeah, that could be. The book I got the scan from didn't mention any date. Also no clue if we know about any residences before Debre Berhan. In the end it's probably still a better choice than Gondar though.

The wiki seems to conflict you on this: "By 1450 the Jewish kingdom managed to annex back the territories it lost beforehand and began preparing to fight the armies of the emperor. The Beta Israel forces invaded the Ethiopian Empire in 1462 but lost the campaign and many of its military forces were killed. Later on the forces of the Ethiopian emperor invaded the kingdom in the region of Begemder and massacred many of the Jews in that region throughout a period of seven years. The Emperor Yacob Zara (reigned 1434–1468) even proudly added the title "Exterminator of the Jews" to his name. Although the area of the kingdom became significantly smaller afterwards, the Jews were able to eventually restore their mountain kingdom."

So what do think? The comparison to Albania is actually quite in place, and as I said before, while Albania did manage to preserve itself until Skanderbeg's death, it didn't regain some of its lost territories, unlike Beta Israel, which did.

 

[Tehrozer]

I think it should be independent . They had a king something similar to goverment they fought a war agains ethiopia and they won i think that not autonomy or a a rebelion its enough to call them a country and besides that they were other culture and faith but we can't just make them a country and leave it like that it need much work new events and decisions and some work to jewish faith

 

[LinusLinothorax]

The wiki seems to conflict you on this: "By 1450 the Jewish kingdom managed to annex back the territories it lost beforehand and began preparing to fight the armies of the emperor. The Beta Israel forces invaded the Ethiopian Empire in 1462 but lost the campaign and many of its military forces were killed. Later on the forces of the Ethiopian emperor invaded the kingdom in the region of Begemder and massacred many of the Jews in that region throughout a period of seven years. The Emperor Yacob Zara (reigned 1434–1468) even proudly added the title "Exterminator of the Jews" to his name. Although the area of the kingdom became significantly smaller afterwards, the Jews were able to eventually restore their mountain kingdom."

I got the stuff I wrote directly from Steven Kaplan. If there are any doubts if there was no centralized Jewish kingdom in 1444, but only some rebellious gouverneurs, I can upload the relevant chapters as PDF.

 

[AirikrStrife]

Ok, I just visited my library for, believe it or not, 12 hours. 2 good and 2 bad news.

First bad news: There was no Kingdom of Semien in 1444. There was no centralized Jewish political entity at all at that date.

First good news: There was a rebeliion at the startdate, spanning Semien and Sallamt (The region northwest of Tekeze river), apart of Dembeya the two most important Jewish provinces of that time. Historically the rebellion was quite long-lasting and wasn't crushed until the 1470's, just to rise again for several decades.

Second good news: Over the course of the 16th century the Beta Israel managed to build some kind of political entity one could call a "Kingdom". It even had its own ruling family, the Gideons.

Second bad news: It was never independent, but always remained tributary to the Empire. There were several revolts, but that doesn't mean that they didn't occured in the other "Kingdoms" of the Empire as well. I would try to compare the level of Semiens autonomy to those of the other vasall kingdoms. If it is comparable high I would make it an own tag from around 1520 onwards, though as a vasall. If not I would still include it, but only to be used when the rebellions at the start date succeed.

Source:
Steven Kaplan: "The Beta Israel: Falasha in Ethiopia: From Earliest Times to the Twentieth Century"


Btw,, some off topic info:

1) Don't fired EU4 up for a while so I don't know the current state, but historically, Medri Bahri was a vasall of the Empire.

2 things:

1. While historically a mere rebellion seems to be the most appropriate situation to represent the Beta Israeli, I wonder if it would be nice to add Semien as an independent country at war with Ethiopia for the flavor sake of being able to play a jewish nation. I tried it in a mod and in all my testgames Semien was quickly annexed by Ethiopia so it'd have the same effect, but for some players that might be enough to play a very hard achievment with the goal to conquer jerusalem and palestine. (especially if Dembien is also part of the Semien state)

2. I don't know if the Medri Bahri being a vassal of Ethiopia is implemented, but if it is Ethiopia will be a juggernaut as I already talked about earlier in this thread. With Sudan now being dominant christian and a strong ethiopia with three vassals and two initial blessings. I understand this makes it a more feasible region to play in and more fun but it could be made harder as well, since in reality, the horn of africa were a politically fairly isolated region with mostly fighting between local powers for the whole timeline. Basically Horn of Africa should be a main campaign in itself. Anyway, my main idea how to make the region arder is to split the cushitic group. I've had this idea for a while but largely been against it myself until now. But one Abyssinian group (Tigray, Amhara, (Agew) and harari(?)) and once Cushitic (Sidamo (Kaffa/Omoto), Oromo, Harari(?) Afar and Somali. This is a very real dichtonomy which is still very clear today aswell. I'm a bit unsure about Harari's place, they're generally considered Abbessinians but since they're muslim and closely tied to somalis I think they're better of as Cushites.

 

[LinusLinothorax]

2 things:

1. While historically a mere rebellion seems to be the most appropriate situation to represent the Beta Israeli, I wonder if it would be nice to add Semien as an independent country at war with Ethiopia for the flavor sake of being able to play a jewish nation. I tried it in a mod and in all my testgames Semien was quickly annexed by Ethiopia so it'd have the same effect, but for some players that might be enough to play a very hard achievment with the goal to conquer jerusalem and palestine. (especially if Dembien is also part of the Semien state)

The Jews simply had no a centralized state in 1444. An independent tag would be no appropriate representation of them.

2. I don't know if the Medri Bahri being a vassal of Ethiopia is implemented, but if it is Ethiopia will be a juggernaut as I already talked about earlier in this thread. With Sudan now being dominant christian and a strong ethiopia with three vassals and two initial blessings.

Historicaly Ethiopia was at war with Adal, Hadiyya and the Jewish rebels. If all are implemented ingame it should make a quite tough campaign.
Btw: Is Dongola Christian or Muslim? Cause it should be Muslim.

 

[Aelia]

I got the stuff I wrote directly from Steven Kaplan. If there are any doubts if there was no centralized Jewish kingdom in 1444, but only some rebellious gouverneurs, I can upload the relevant chapters as PDF.

Yeah, I'd be glad if you were to provide the quote, so we could see for ourselves.
Also, if you're sure about it you might want to edit the wiki page because it literally says the opposite of this

 

[Trin Tragula]

Btw: Is Dongola Christian or Muslim? Cause it should be Muslim.

It's muslim

 

[LinusLinothorax]

Yeah, I'd be glad if you were to provide the quote, so we could see for ourselves.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rhf4f1aq3b5z79p/Steven Kaplan - Beta Israel.pdf?dl=0

Also, if you're sure about it you might want to edit the wiki page because it literally says the opposite of this

Nah, too much work.